First impression of 531

[Krieger Blitzer]

Change-log is promising, but there are few concerns & some missing stuff:

- Grille barrage cool-down was forgotten i believe? Currently the cool-down is too short.

- MineSweepers for PzGren & Wire cutting for CW sappers, were also forgotten.

- Probably a typo (gonna test it) but in the change-log description.. it's mentioned that Assault Pios can build trenches.. but then right underneath in the patch notes, it says they can no longer build them???

- Does the Satchel change include Axis Bundle Grenades too?

- Red flare is a nice change, however;
280 & Firestorm values should be reverted.. cuz applying both the red flare AND the wide spread with rockets delay is too much. 3 sec Red flares warning is already enough...

Meanwhile, Long Tom & Def 150 off-map AoE should be buffed accordingly vs tanks after the red flares.. then both set to 250 ammo.

- Annoyed how Sector Arty was removed, completely unnecessary.

- Why is Def doc off-map unlocked together with 150mm btw? Talking anout the off-map which is used over friendly points being neutralized... I think this one should be unlocked together with enhanced observation posts unlock.

That's all for now, more later.

[Redgaarden]

- Red flare is a nice change, however;
280 & Firestorm values should be reverted.. cuz applying both the red flare AND the wide spread with rockets delay is too much. 3 sec Red flares warning is already enough...

lets test this first. 3 sec is not a long time.

- Annoyed how Sector Arty was removed, completely unnecessary.

I'm happy its removed. never had a fun encounter with this ability. If you need 2 mins to do something away from the pc we should add a pause button instead.

- Why is Def doc off-map unlocked together with 150mm btw? Talking anout the off-map which is used over friendly points being neutralized... I think this one should be unlocked together with enhanced observation posts unlock.

What does enhanced observation pots do?

And are 2nd truck commandos still old never patched before variant?

[Krieger Blitzer]

lets test this first. 3 sec is not a long time.

The 3 seconds can be 5 or whatever...
Though, applying the Red Flares then also nerfing the off-map by wider scatter as well as longer delay between rockets??? That's too much mate.
What are you going to hit with this? First, the enemy would have already moved away prior to the Red Flares warning.. and then after they have moved away, your "slowly" landing rockets probably won't hit anything due to wide spread after all.

These off-map strikes are being heavily over-nerfed this way.

I'm happy its removed. never had a fun encounter with this ability. If you need 2 mins to do something away from the pc we should add a pause button instead.

Sector Arty can get duration reduction along with reduced cost.. 2 mins was very long indeed. However; this doesn't negate the fact that Sector Arty - in principle - is more unique compared to rocket strikes.. also fits SE doc a lot more, in terms of the overall concept; since it's literally a defensive ability used only in friendly territories.

What does enhanced observation pots do?

i think it gives observation posts more view range & spots tanks nearby in fog of war...
Not sure why "Registered Artillery" is unlocked together with 150mm off-map though... i think it should be unlocked together with this observation post unlock, they go along with each others since both address your friendly zones.

And are 2nd truck commandos still old never patched before variant?

Apparently, good you brought this up.


I also wonder what this means:

- Fixed incorrect penetration drop when using ALRS

How exactly?

[Redgaarden]

The 3 seconds can be 5 or whatever...
Though, applying the Red Flares then also nerfing the off-map by wider scatter as well as longer delay between rockets??? That's too much mate.
What are you going to hit with this? First, the enemy would have already moved away prior to the Red Flares warning.. and then after they have moved away, your "slowly" landing rockets probably won't hit anything due to wide spread after all.

These off-map strikes are being heavily over-nerfed this way.

I haven't tried them all. But the 280mm hits like a truck, I would like to test if it kills more now instead of less since it has higher scatter. 2 lucky hits will destroy most tanks.
I dont know how slow the rockets are and I want to see it before I comment further about them.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I haven't tried them all. But the 280mm hits like a truck, I would like to test if it kills more now instead of less since it has higher scatter. 2 lucky hits will destroy most tanks.
I dont know how slow the rockets are and I want to see it before I comment further about them.

i tested them, the 280mm & firestorm are so bad.


Also, the luck factor isn't ideal for 200 ammo spent.
Why not just have the rockets untouched (or as strong as they have always been, so same old scatter and old delay between rockets) but like 5 seconds red flare?

I think this way they can be easily avoided, yet.. still completely devastating when not dodged.
Would be a lot better this way, i think.

Otherwise, they are currently just not worth it whatsoever.


Regarding the "Registered Arty" i just wanted to add that this one is available too late at the moment.. would be keen to have this ability available sooner so it becomes something for Def doc that is a bit of an equivalent to the inf doc 105mm off-map.

[Redgaarden]

Regarding the "Registered Arty" i just wanted to add that this one is available too late at the moment.. would be keen to have this ability available sooner so it becomes something for Def doc that is a bit of an equivalent to the inf doc 105mm off-map.

I usually get 150 before observation thingy. And I think registered is pretty strong.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Not as strong as 8 CPs, not to mention it can only be used on the points being neutralized (not anywhere on the map).

Also, by the way... SturmTiger got some nice change(s) but is now too cheap, i suggest price increase from 700 MP to 1000 MP because now it's hard to kill but easy to replace.

[Warhawks97]

1. There should be no flares prior to an arty strike. Its too much voch.

2. I would remove firestorm entirely because its stupidly strong when bugged or, as some seem to see it, too weak. I would keep sector arty but it would be an ability for the Observer Halftrack. So you cant randomly throw sector arty anywhere you want. The Sector arty would also only last 45 seconds or 1 min maximum.

3. SE unlock chains would be:
- Observer HT->Sector arty->Hummel
- Incendiary stuff- Hotchkiss- Res trade. Hotchkiss can fire normal and fire rockets.

[MarKr]

- Grille barrage cool-down was forgotten i believe? Currently the cool-down is too short.

- MineSweepers for PzGren & Wire cutting for CW sappers, were also forgotten.

What do you mean "forgotten"? When did any dev say that these things would be in the update, or implemented at all?

- Probably a typo (gonna test it) but in the change-log description.. it's mentioned that Assault Pios can build trenches.. but then right underneath in the patch notes, it says they can no longer build them???

Yes, originally we wanted to remove trenches from Ass.Pios and leave them only for PGrens, but then we changed it because Ass.Pios build field defenses. It was also considered if PE should keep trenches at all. We'll see based on feedback.

- Does the Satchel change include Axis Bundle Grenades too?

No, people complained about satches, not bundles if I remember correctly. But if Bundlenades are suffer from the same problem, they can be changed too.

- Red flare is a nice change, however;
280 & Firestorm values should be reverted.. cuz applying both the red flare AND the wide spread with rockets delay is too much. 3 sec Red flares warning is already enough...
Meanwhile, Long Tom & Def 150 off-map AoE should be buffed accordingly vs tanks after the red flares.. then both set to 250 ammo.

I don't really care about "preliminary concerns". If people in general see this as a problem after playing several games we can see if more changes should come. I would want to see replays where it is clearly visible that these abilities repeatedly fail to acomplish their purpose.

- Annoyed how Sector Arty was removed, completely unnecessary.

We added the warning flares so people can have time to react before the most destructive offmap abilities hit them. The Sector Arty cannot get flares because it hits entire sector. It hits very quickly and only fulfills its purpose if it hits quickly. If we make the hit delay longer, it will never hit anything because the ability shoots shells at ground where an enemy unit, if the unit is on the move, the shell will hit where the unit was when the shot was fired, not where the unit currently is. SE has Nebel, Hotchkiss and Hummel, there is no need for this "aimbot arty".

- Why is Def doc off-map unlocked together with 150mm btw? Talking anout the off-map which is used over friendly points being neutralized... I think this one should be unlocked together with enhanced observation posts unlock.

This has been the case since 5.2.0. How is it a problem of this patch?

[Warhawks97]

@Markr:

Nobody ever complained about long-tom and def doc 150 mm arty. Usually you hear them well before they strike and both are extremely rarely used already, esspecially long tom.

So why did you add flares at all to them? The deep sound was sufficient enough as first warning, the ammount of shots limited and with a decent spread and delay. So can you at least for those remove the flares? The was no request to nerf these two abilities in any way.

[Krieger Blitzer]

What do you mean "forgotten"? When did any dev say that these things would be in the update, or implemented at all?

Not sure, but i think Kwok mentioned somewhere that he agreed?
After all, anything that speaks against these 2 points? I am pretty sure they are quite valid.

Yes, originally we wanted to remove trenches from Ass.Pios and leave them only for PGrens, but then we changed it because Ass.Pios build field defenses. It was also considered if PE should keep trenches at all. We'll see based on feedback.

Yes, i think PE should definitely keep trenches.. i mean, all factions do, & you already removed bunkers from PE.

No, people complained about satches, not bundles if I remember correctly. But if Bundlenades are suffer from the same problem, they can be changed too.

Yes MarKr, they do suffer exactly the same.. any Axis unit with Bundle Grenades suffer the exact same.

I don't really care about "preliminary concerns". If people in general see this as a problem after playing several games we can see if more changes should come. I would want to see replays where it is clearly visible that these abilities repeatedly fail to acomplish their purpose.

Fair enough, but for now here is my opinion; these off-map abilities have been seriously over-nerfed unfortunately.

We added the warning flares so people can have time to react before the most destructive offmap abilities hit them. The Sector Arty cannot get flares because it hits entire sector. It hits very quickly and only fulfills its purpose if it hits quickly. If we make the hit delay longer, it will never hit anything because the ability shoots shells at ground where an enemy unit, if the unit is on the move, the shell will hit where the unit was when the shot was fired, not where the unit currently is. SE has Nebel, Hotchkiss and Hummel, there is no need for this "aimbot arty".

MarKr, the ability indicates a yellow zone for opponent players on the map.. it doesn't need any flares, delay or anything. As Hawks said, we could easily have it back but with reduced duration & cost.

This has been the case since 5.2.0. How is it a problem of this patch?

Suddenly a problem because inf doc 105 off-map wasn't nerfed when most equivelant off-maps did.
Thus, i think we need to either have Registered Arty available earlier or get inf doc 105 off-map nerfed the same.
inf doc 105 off-map is ultimately better than Firestorm, wipes squads in 1 hit & deals more damage to tanks.. yet costs less as well.


Generally speaking, the patch is nice.. but the off-maps over-nerf is a bit of a negative to be fair.

[Viper]

i remember bundles were reported even before satchels.

[Jagdpanther]

Change-log is promising, but there are few concerns & some missing stuff:

- Grille barrage cool-down was forgotten i believe? Currently the cool-down is too short.

- MineSweepers for PzGren & Wire cutting for CW sappers, were also forgotten.

- Probably a typo (gonna test it) but in the change-log description.. it's mentioned that Assault Pios can build trenches.. but then right underneath in the patch notes, it says they can no longer build them???

- Does the Satchel change include Axis Bundle Grenades too?

- Red flare is a nice change, however;
280 & Firestorm values should be reverted.. cuz applying both the red flare AND the wide spread with rockets delay is too much. 3 sec Red flares warning is already enough...

Meanwhile, Long Tom & Def 150 off-map AoE should be buffed accordingly vs tanks after the red flares.. then both set to 250 ammo.

- Annoyed how Sector Arty was removed, completely unnecessary.

- Why is Def doc off-map unlocked together with 150mm btw? Talking anout the off-map which is used over friendly points being neutralized... I think this one should be unlocked together with enhanced observation posts unlock.

That's all for now, more later.

Monopoly is not good, you write too much, let others write too

[Krieger Blitzer]

Found a bug with SE doc tech tree (posted about it in the bug section).

After more testing though; 280, LongTom and Def doc 150mm are somewhat acceptable.

Firestorm however is complete utter joke.. not even worth 30 ammo (no exaggeration).
By far the worst ability in the game at the moment.. remove it already, it's uselessness is indescribable.

Or change the ability name from "Firestorm" to "Fireworks"

[Jagdpanther]

Found a bug with SE doc tech tree (posted about it in the bug section).

After more testing though; 280, LongTom and Def doc 150mm are somewhat acceptable.

Firestorm however is complete utter joke.. not even worth 30 ammo (no exaggeration).
By far the worst ability in the game at the moment.. remove it already, it's uselessness is indescribable.

Or change the ability name from "Firestorm" to "Fireworks"

yes the truth is that i dont like you


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[Krieger Blitzer]

yes the truth is that i dont like you

Where is this coming from?
it's not like i care a tiny bit of what you think of me.

Stick to the game topic or keep silent, if you want to start something personal here; you are going nowhere.

[Jagdpanther]

yes the truth is that i dont like you

Where is this coming from?
it's not like i care a tiny bit of what you think of me.

Stick to the game topic or keep silent, if you want to start something personal here; you are going nowhere.

its not personal, its very on topic, very about the mod, if i take you down, i raise the mod

ADMIN:
You've received warning for this post.
This post is not constructive to the mod and are purely personal attacks. This post violate posting guideline number 2. Cease this behavior or it will result in a ban.

[Consti255]

i remember bundles were reported even before satchels.

yes, i reported them together with the satchels.
@Markr
Could you please do the same stuff to the bundles? Would be nice!

[kwok]

What do you mean "forgotten"? When did any dev say that these things would be in the update, or implemented at all?

Not sure, but i think Kwok mentioned somewhere that he agreed?
After all, anything that speaks against these 2 points? I am pretty sure they are quite valid.

even if i did agree it doesnt mean much. if anything among the devs my voice is the weakest because it's acknowledged that i will always have player bias. i'll try to post "this is just MY opinion" meaning other devs may not share.

that being said i don't remember the grille one. i vaguely remember the minesweeper/wirecutter one. but i don't agree minesweepers and wirecutters should exist for pgrens. probably would warrant a separate post to debate that out.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think minesweepers were requested for PzGrens but are not necessary, since Kettens/Schwims already do the job revealing mines.

However, wirecutters were requested for CW Sappers which is actually a long lasting issue as i often saw Sappers stuck behind the wires they construced themselves.. so this one is quite necessary, but not to the point that it's worthy of debate.

Regarding the Grille, the barrage cool-down is shorter than mortars.
That said, thx for casting ur viewpoint.

Most importantly are the bugs reported in Consti's thread.. i think the patch can't go live without fixing those first.. specifically the SE doc tech tree which is currently broken.

[Mood]

Sector artillery was rather unique and should have stayed in some form! The rest looks pretty good.

[Consti255]

What do you mean "forgotten"? When did any dev say that these things would be in the update, or implemented at all?

Not sure, but i think Kwok mentioned somewhere that he agreed?
After all, anything that speaks against these 2 points? I am pretty sure they are quite valid.

even if i did agree it doesnt mean much. if anything among the devs my voice is the weakest because it's acknowledged that i will always have player bias. i'll try to post "this is just MY opinion" meaning other devs may not share.

that being said i don't remember the grille one. i vaguely remember the minesweeper/wirecutter one. but i don't agree minesweepers and wirecutters should exist for pgrens. probably would warrant a separate post to debate that out.

I would like that Storm Pios would get access to Minesweepers.

[MarKr]

What does enhanced observation pots do?

Tiger already said what it partially does. But:

- Added unlock "Improved Observation Posts" (increases HP of OPs (+200); OPs take less damage (-35%), have increased sight range (double of normal) and detect enemy vehicles in FoW)

I also wonder what this means:
MarKr wrote:
- Fixed incorrect penetration drop when using ALRS
How exactly?

The ALRS just took the normal penetration values and "stretched" the range brackets. Practically it meant that if a gun had e.g. 70% pen.chance at 65 range, with ALRS it had 70% pen.chance at 90 range. Now the gun in ALRS mode has 70% pen.chance at 60 range and the pen.chance drops to something like 55% at 90 range.
I just pulled these numbers out of a hat, these are not the values of any of the guns that use ALRS, it is just to explain what the problem was.

i remember bundles were reported even before satchels.

yes, i reported them together with the satchels.
@Markr
Could you please do the same stuff to the bundles? Would be nice!

OK, will be changed too.

[Krieger Blitzer]

The ALRS just took the normal penetration values and "stretched" the range brackets. Practically it meant that if a gun had e.g. 70% pen.chance at 65 range, with ALRS it had 70% pen.chance at 90 range. Now the gun in ALRS mode has 70% pen.chance at 60 range and the pen.chance drops to something like 55% at 90 range.
I just pulled these numbers out of a hat, these are not the values of any of the guns that use ALRS, it is just to explain what the problem was.

Great, that makes sense, thx for clarifying.

[Consti255]

So ALRS got nerfed significantly actually?
Fine with that.