Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

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Consti255
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Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Consti255 »

Luft stuggels so much vs enemys that turtle down and keep the air clear.
You just got this paradroped Leig18 which often buggs.

You struggeling early since you have no mortar and struggeling later since you got no reliable arty.

Any ideas how to fix this ?
Bring back 88 arty ?
Add Leig18 to the logisic ?
Maybe add the Wespe to Luft? And give PS back the Hotchkiss?

Just brainstreaming..
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Warhawks97
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Warhawks97 »

I would give 88´s arty abilities and in return ammo upkeep.
Maybe nebel? idk.

No SPG.... SPG, airstrikes, elite inf and good tanks is way too OP.
Build more AA Walderschmidt

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

They used to have a nebel, idk why did it get removed when AB and RAF got howitzers at the same time.

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Warhawks97
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Warhawks97 »

because rocket arty got spammed all over the place. And i fear rocket arty like neblers way more destructive than a barrage from a small 75 mm gun which perhaps hits a few of your dudes. So the damage dealed, area effect, splash effect and the quick barrage is what makes these rocket arty systems way more destructive and fearfull compared to small howitzers.
Build more AA Walderschmidt

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MarKr
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by MarKr »

Consti255 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 23:21
You struggeling early since you have no mortar and struggeling later since you got no reliable arty.
There's no mortar HT in Luft? What about the "Support weapon drop" ability? There is an MG and a mortar there. Sure, it needs to get crewed so it costs some MP to reinforce the squad that crews it but if you need that mortar that much, isn't that MP investment worth it at that point?
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Consti255
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Consti255 »

MarKr wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 08:49
Consti255 wrote:
10 Jun 2021, 23:21
You struggeling early since you have no mortar and struggeling later since you got no reliable arty.
There's no mortar HT in Luft? What about the "Support weapon drop" ability? There is an MG and a mortar there. Sure, it needs to get crewed so it costs some MP to reinforce the squad that crews it but if you need that mortar that much, isn't that MP investment worth it at that point?
no i mean like a basic mortar to get which is CP free.
Sure, you have the HT but i fighting a 2inch for example is a big pain in the early stages since your mortar HT comes after the logistic upgrade + is a big fuel and tier slowdown investment.
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MarKr
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by MarKr »

Wanna get a 50mm mortar team for Luft? 8-)
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Consti255
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Consti255 »

MarKr wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 10:26
Wanna get a 50mm mortar team for Luft? 8-)
gimme
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mofetagalactica
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by mofetagalactica »

Either mortar or 88 with arty capabilities and upkeep sounds nice.

Red
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Red »

Doesn't the PE Officer have an 88mm Arty ability?

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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Bringing up this topic again...
MarKr wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 10:26
Wanna get a 50mm mortar team for Luft? 8-)
There used to be a victor target ability in Luft which allowed 88s to use arty, where did that go?
I don't think the 50mm mortar addition is good idea, as it makes PE mirrored from CW faction.

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

Give 88s an arty ability, maybe they will be worth building them.

Currently they are extremely overpriced for what they do. The emplaced one costs like a big tank + 75 ammo for HE each time. But players with at least a bit of skill simply never go to the range of Flak.

From my experience it is an investment with zero return, besides area denial for some time. I would prefer camoed mg 42 + camoed Pak 40 Puma any day to the emplaced flak, as they will score some kills for sure.

Consti255
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Consti255 »

to be honest, using 88s for AT is not the way to go right now. the HE obliterates any Infantry sqaud on a stupid range. So use it more for anti Inf than AT capabilitys and stick with your 75mm pumas as AT role.
When you can get early map control and go the Luft defensive route, its so hard to push against a damn early flakvierling + Gebirgs.
The 88 makes it even harder to push through the defensive and they are dirty cheap CP wise.

I like the new mortar for PE. Maybe i would change the way they get acces to the LeiG18. It should come down like the M1A1 75mm howitzer from airborne which is already crewed. This will delete change the buggy behavior of this unit. I still think its a little bit unfair that AB and RAF have the 75 howitzer without any cp unlocks.
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Diablo »

Consti255 wrote:
30 Jul 2021, 13:39
I like the new mortar for PE. Maybe i would change the way they get acces to the LeiG18. It should come down like the M1A1 75mm howitzer from airborne which is already crewed. This will delete change the buggy behavior of this unit. I still think its a little bit unfair that AB and RAF have the 75 howitzer without any cp unlocks.
You have a point. But the LeiG18 is stronger than the howitzers. Squad wiping direct fire and ambush mode in addition to it's barrage ability make this gun superior to what the allies have to offer.

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MarKr
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by MarKr »

Krieger Blitzer wrote:
30 Jul 2021, 09:55
Bringing up this topic again...
MarKr wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 10:26
Wanna get a 50mm mortar team for Luft? 8-)
There used to be a victor target ability in Luft which allowed 88s to use arty, where did that go?
I don't think the 50mm mortar addition is good idea, as it makes PE mirrored from CW faction.
the topic waa originally pointed at "Luft has no EARLY game arty". How is VT for 88s solving anything in early game?

Majority of suggestions here go pretty much like "doctrine X has (something) but doctrine Y from the opposing side doesn't have it. It should be added." I don't remember you opposing such suggestions with saying it would create unnecessary mirroring...
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Consti255
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Consti255 »

MarKr wrote:
30 Jul 2021, 15:33
Krieger Blitzer wrote:
30 Jul 2021, 09:55
Bringing up this topic again...
MarKr wrote:
11 Jun 2021, 10:26
Wanna get a 50mm mortar team for Luft? 8-)
There used to be a victor target ability in Luft which allowed 88s to use arty, where did that go?
I don't think the 50mm mortar addition is good idea, as it makes PE mirrored from CW faction.
the topic waa originally pointed at "Luft has no EARLY game arty". How is VT for 88s solving anything in early game?

Majority of suggestions here go pretty much like "doctrine X has (something) but doctrine Y from the opposing side doesn't have it. It should be added." I don't remember you opposing such suggestions with saying it would create unnecessary mirroring...

+1
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

MarKr wrote:
30 Jul 2021, 15:33
the topic waa originally pointed at "Luft has no EARLY game arty". How is VT for 88s solving anything in early game?

Majority of suggestions here go pretty much like "doctrine X has (something) but doctrine Y from the opposing side doesn't have it. It should be added." I don't remember you opposing such suggestions with saying it would create unnecessary mirroring...
As far as i can see, the topic initially pointed out that Luft doc struggles early with arty tools until u get mortar halftrack.. but then also struggles late game as it's left only with Lieg18, according to what was discussed here.. which i agree with. So, i think the topic is addressing arty issues for this doc in both early and late stages of the game.. not just the early stage; excluding the mid stage though, because Luft is doing fine with mortar halftrack at that stage.

So.. i believe either VT or arty barrage for Luft 88s would both work.. despite i prefer VT, because arty barrage would probably be a bit too much, because aside from airplanes.. other air docs such as AB & RAF only have 75mm howitzers as actual arty units, in addition to few other arty tools... Thus, i think Flak 88s in Luft should be able to arty but just occasionally using VT, and not anytime via a barrage ability.. as this would give the doc a much more capable arty piece.

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Sukin-kot (SVT)
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

VT is not sufficient at all. You need Pioniers + Flak + Luft Officer + Bunch of CP for an arty barrage that can barely kill an emplacement. It will have zero game impact.

Consti255
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Consti255 »

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:
30 Jul 2021, 18:05
VT is not sufficient at all. You need Pioniers + Flak + Luft Officer + Bunch of CP for an arty barrage that can barely kill an emplacement. It will have zero game impact.
yeah. indeed.
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Remember that VT would allow ALL your arty pieces on the map (Lieg18 & Flak 88s) at the same time to strike the designated area by ur combat inf squad for just 75 ammo and even when out of range...

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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Sukin-kot (SVT) »

I barely ever see a single Flak 88 deployed, as it's extremely expensive for a unit that cannot score kills unless an enemy runs toward it like cannon fodder. Hence "all flaks shoot with VT" is rather unrealistic.

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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Consti255 »

i just think the doc should get smoother access to LeIG18s. They are bugged and even cost ammo to get, which should cost MP or maybe even fuel.
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:
31 Jul 2021, 10:21
I barely ever see a single Flak 88 deployed, as it's extremely expensive for a unit that cannot score kills unless an enemy runs toward it like cannon fodder. Hence "all flaks shoot with VT" is rather unrealistic.
Naked ones aren't that expensive.. you can even build them at the backline just for the purpose of VT every now and then.

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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

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Krieger Blitzer wrote:
30 Jul 2021, 17:46
As far as i can see, the topic initially pointed out that Luft doc struggles early with arty tools until u get mortar halftrack.. but then also struggles late game as it's left only with Lieg18, according to what was discussed here.. which i agree with. So, i think the topic is addressing arty issues for this doc in both early and late stages of the game.. not just the early stage; excluding the mid stage though, because Luft is doing fine with mortar halftrack at that stage.

So.. i believe either VT or arty barrage for Luft 88s would both work.. despite i prefer VT, because arty barrage would probably be a bit too much, because aside from airplanes.. other air docs such as AB & RAF only have 75mm howitzers as actual arty units, in addition to few other arty tools... Thus, i think Flak 88s in Luft should be able to arty but just occasionally using VT, and not anytime via a barrage ability.. as this would give the doc a much more capable arty piece.
Not to nitpick but you justify the change by comparing it to AB/RAF...isn't that mirroring? :D

Airstrikes in gameplay are comparable to offmap arty. They can be shot down but in return they deliver the payload faster and are usually more deadly. Anyway, saying that Luft has only Leig18 later on is not true as they have the airstrikes. If you feel that Leig is too hard to get we can talk about about giving a Leig squad to one of the base building, or dropping leig as a squad rather than a weapon that needs to be crewed or something but the VT doesn't feel useful for the reasons Sukin mentioned.
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Re: Luftwaffe Arty Ideas?

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

MarKr wrote:
31 Jul 2021, 16:18
Not to nitpick but you justify the change by comparing it to AB/RAF...isn't that mirroring? :D

Airstrikes in gameplay are comparable to offmap arty. They can be shot down but in return they deliver the payload faster and are usually more deadly. Anyway, saying that Luft has only Leig18 later on is not true as they have the airstrikes. If you feel that Leig is too hard to get we can talk about about giving a Leig squad to one of the base building, or dropping leig as a squad rather than a weapon that needs to be crewed or something but the VT doesn't feel useful for the reasons Sukin mentioned.
Well, good point.. i was comparing to see if adding a barrage ability to Flak 88s in Luft doc would be balanced in-line with the other Air docs or not... Which i concluded it would be probably too much compared to the others, not in a sense of mirroring; since neither AB or RAF have anything similar to Flak88s to begin with, so it's more in a sense of keeping an eye on game balance, not more or less.

Overall, if you think VT isn't a good idea.. then it's fine; i would be down to make LieG.18 accessed a bit more easily.. though; i am honestly not too sure what the best idea would be; so i would probably just suggest to make it dropping with a crew for around 300 MP or something.

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