Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

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MEFISTO
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Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by MEFISTO »

This bug happpened about minute 49 , check how my units step on his head and coulden't see him.
This game is also a good replay to demostrate how stong infantry in general (Allies and Axis) are. I have nothing against it, I just don't think HE needs to be nerfed. I also realize Luftwaffe strafing is not as as effective as Airborne strafing.
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kwok
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by kwok »

I watched the replay for the camo. First thing I noticed was no deetection units were used to find the SAS except for the shwim... and that's a big reason why i use the motorcycle instead of the shwim... The detection radius for a shwim is a lot lower than the motorcycle. If your teammate made a ketten or if a spotter (which has no unit limit now) was used then you'd be able to find the SAS. This doesn't mean that there's no change needed, but just want to tell you as a player to prevent this next time. A few times i saw a TANK trying to find the SAS. Tanks have no detection radius at all, so don't expect to find them.

The camo for the SAS is about the same for a lot of other camo units. So if there's a problem with this there's a problem with all. There's a little variation between them all. Should they all be the same? And what should the basic detection radius be for all camo units? Right now it's set to 3. Maybe it should be 5 for all units? This way no matter what kind of unit, you will always detect the unit at 5m if you have a different unit.

I'd have to rewatch again for the strafe run. But in general I can take a guess what your issue is. The Luft stafe uses an MG and a 20mm cannon, the Allied strafe uses 50cals. The 20mm cannon is stronger than the 50cal but it has short burst intervals. So sometimes it's a LOT stronger, sometimes it does nothing. It depends if it hits or not, it's random.

I think the devs asked players a long time ago if they wanted to just change it so it's no 20mm cannon so people didn't get confused why sometimes it blows up tanks but sometimes it does nothing to halftracks... but players said they want to keep it.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

You can still use WH Schwim effectively to detect hidden units from far away if u put spotter or officer inside it.
3 detection range is currently fine in my opinion.. even tho 5 doesn't seem bad either, wouldn't mind it.. maybe all tanks could be 10 or 15 detection range, for the sake of standardizing, but generally speaking it's not an issue currently after all... Tho, worth mentioning; any bigger detection range than values suggested would be over the top for sure.

Luft strafe is different but not weaker, i think it's currently ok.


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MEFISTO
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by MEFISTO »

kwok wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 00:16
I watched the replay for the camo. First thing I noticed was no deetection units were used to find the SAS except for the shwim... and that's a big reason why i use the motorcycle instead of the shwim... The detection radius for a shwim is a lot lower than the motorcycle. If your teammate made a ketten or if a spotter (which has no unit limit now) was used then you'd be able to find the SAS. This doesn't mean that there's no change needed, but just want to tell you as a player to prevent this next time. A few times i saw a TANK trying to find the SAS. Tanks have no detection radius at all, so don't expect to find them.

The camo for the SAS is about the same for a lot of other camo units. So if there's a problem with this there's a problem with all. There's a little variation between them all. Should they all be the same? And what should the basic detection radius be for all camo units? Right now it's set to 3. Maybe it should be 5 for all units? This way no matter what kind of unit, you will always detect the unit at 5m if you have a different unit.

I'd have to rewatch again for the strafe run. But in general I can take a guess what your issue is. The Luft stafe uses an MG and a 20mm cannon, the Allied strafe uses 50cals. The 20mm cannon is stronger than the 50cal but it has short burst intervals. So sometimes it's a LOT stronger, sometimes it does nothing. It depends if it hits or not, it's random.

I think the devs asked players a long time ago if they wanted to just change it so it's no 20mm cannon so people didn't get confused why sometimes it blows up tanks but sometimes it does nothing to halftracks... but players said they want to keep it.
Kwok keep watching the replay. After that we use ketten and spotter plus 2 Vampires to step on their head, which I did and they were not revealed. Keep watching the replay.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by MEFISTO »

Krieger Blitzer wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 00:34
You can still use WH Schwim effectively to detect hidden units from far away if u put spotter or officer inside it.
3 detection range is currently fine in my opinion.. even tho 5 doesn't seem bad either, wouldn't mind it.. maybe all tanks could be 10 or 15 detection range, for the sake of standardizing, but generally speaking it's not an issue currently after all... Tho, worth mentioning; any bigger detection range than values suggested would be over the top for sure.

Luft strafe is different but not weaker, i think it's currently ok.
The bug comes when there is only 1 man left (SAS) on the squad. You won't be able to reval it from camo even stepping on his head.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by kwok »

ah okay. i didn't see the whole replay. i stopped after like 30 minutes.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by kwok »

Ah ha well I found the problem. The SAS Leader has a reveal radius of 1. I mean, the issue still applies in general. Camo reveal radius is different for everything. Should we just standardize it?

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by MEFISTO »

kwok wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 03:43
Ah ha well I found the problem. The SAS Leader has a reveal radius of 1. I mean, the issue still applies in general. Camo reveal radius is different for everything. Should we just standardize it?
I don't know what you mean by "The SAS Leader has a reveal radius of 1" but I stepped on his head and couden't reveal him, It shouldn't happen. I don't think we should standardize the camo reveal radius, to avoid the mirror units effect, plus all units have different stats and capabbylities.
Just change this stats or fix the bug. Thank you for your time.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by kwok »

It means that a detecting unit needs to be at a range of 1 to reveal the SAS. That is why you have to "step on it" to see it.

We don't have to standardize, but what should the value be instead of 1? like... 3? 4? 5? 15? 10?

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Warhawks97 »

kwok wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 03:43
Ah ha well I found the problem. The SAS Leader has a reveal radius of 1. I mean, the issue still applies in general. Camo reveal radius is different for everything. Should we just standardize it?

There are many occassions in which you have to literally step on units before seeing them. If you would watch Tarakanchegs vids you would see many examples of this where like 1 or 2 members of the squad activate "crawl" in the middle of a combat and are suddenly ambushed just to re-appear again out of the mysterious void of the ground to shred the enemie like a reaper send directly from hell.

I think it would be nice to have a general reveal radius of like 5-7 or so, depending on units. SAS being pretty sneaky while others a bit less so.
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Consti255 »

Warhawks97 wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 11:07
kwok wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 03:43
Ah ha well I found the problem. The SAS Leader has a reveal radius of 1. I mean, the issue still applies in general. Camo reveal radius is different for everything. Should we just standardize it?

There are many occassions in which you have to literally step on units before seeing them. If you would watch Tarakanchegs vids you would see many examples of this where like 1 or 2 members of the squad activate "crawl" in the middle of a combat and are suddenly ambushed just to re-appear again out of the mysterious void of the ground to shred the enemie like a reaper send directly from hell.

I think it would be nice to have a general reveal radius of like 5-7 or so, depending on units. SAS being pretty sneaky while others a bit less so.
I dont mind how crawling units are sneaky, they should be sneaky to set up traps.
What i dislike, is that they can go in and out the crawling stance during battle.

Is it possible to set the ability linked with damage ?
So if the sqaud gets y or x damage, they wont be able to use the ability? So it would be a clear sneaking ability which is a one timer during a combat scenario and not a no brainer oh i just go invisible and get some ambush buffs and positon myself into a better location for no costs.
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by MEFISTO »

Consti255 wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 14:57
Warhawks97 wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 11:07
kwok wrote:
10 Apr 2022, 03:43
Ah ha well I found the problem. The SAS Leader has a reveal radius of 1. I mean, the issue still applies in general. Camo reveal radius is different for everything. Should we just standardize it?

There are many occassions in which you have to literally step on units before seeing them. If you would watch Tarakanchegs vids you would see many examples of this where like 1 or 2 members of the squad activate "crawl" in the middle of a combat and are suddenly ambushed just to re-appear again out of the mysterious void of the ground to shred the enemie like a reaper send directly from hell.

I think it would be nice to have a general reveal radius of like 5-7 or so, depending on units. SAS being pretty sneaky while others a bit less so.
I dont mind how crawling units are sneaky, they should be sneaky to set up traps.
What i dislike, is that they can go in and out the crawling stance during battle.

Is it possible to set the ability linked with damage ?
So if the sqaud gets y or x damage, they wont be able to use the ability? So it would be a clear sneaking ability which is a one timer during a combat scenario and not a no brainer oh i just go invisible and get some ambush buffs and positon myself into a better location for no costs.
We have to think about the game being fun and different from others COH mod, so I would be agains this propousal, the same way I would stand against a propusal to remove paratrupers ability to reinforce durindng a batle which will remove the reason some players uses this kind of units. The best solution in my opinion is to don't go far to any extreme, not to the point where you have to step on the head of the unit to real it or be able to see it more than 5 radius.
Any ways if you check the replay there is a clear BUG and it is not about 1 radius at all. Doit like this, set you SAS on camouflage and send them to dead, they will get reveal if a enemy squad get close and they will be killed except 1 man, that guy won't be reveal even if you step literaly on his head or walk on him, then is when you use that guy in the universe paralel to destroy all enemies base. Look at this bug like it's not a 1 radius reveal problem, look at it like a bug, same way some units teleports to buildings in the past.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by kwok »

As far as I can see, it’s the only unit with a 1 radius detection. I’m not sure what else would make it so.

The squad has two kinds of units: Commando_SAS and Commando_SAS_leader.
The commando SAS regular has a radius of 3. The leader has 1. That’s why when you kill it down to just one, it might be luck where most the time the leader stays alive. So suddenly the reveal radius is now 1 instead of 3 for the rest of the squad. So I guess if we use the rest of the squad as a benchmark, we should at least set the leader model to be 3 also?

All I’m saying is this is what I THINK the problem is, it’s not like I can magically find the perfect number to “fix the bug”. That’s why I ask what SHOULD the number be.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Consti255 »

Isnt it unique enough that they can crawl in the first place lol ?
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

My opinion:
just set detection radius for the SAS leader at 3, same as his other squad members.
No need for standardizations now.. but even if that happens in the future, 5 detection radius would be maximum for inf.. and max 10 or 15 for tanks (depending on size) but anything higher is extreme.

For now though, SAS leader should just be the same as the rest of the squad.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by MEFISTO »

Yes I think 3 would be fine since I did not have any problem to find the rest of the squad.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Consti255 »

I still hate when a sqaud that just shot its weapons in a fight disappers and get back its ambush bonuses simply for no reason.
I would like a change there.
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Consti255 wrote:
11 Apr 2022, 20:14
I still hate when a sqaud that just shot its weapons in a fight disappers and get back its ambush bonuses simply for no reason.
I would like a change there.
While i understand your concern, this would be very difficult to change without breaking the camo ability itself.
Same thing for tanks disappearing mid combat.. it's simply how the ability functions.
And to be fair, i can't think of any ideas on how to solve this without harming the ambush mechanics.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Diablo »

Well isn't there this "unit in combat" state? That's used with the Bergetiger when trying to lay mines or construct barriers while being shot at.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Warhawks97 »

Diablo wrote:
13 Apr 2022, 07:41
Well isn't there this "unit in combat" state? That's used with the Bergetiger when trying to lay mines or construct barriers while being shot at.
as far as i know it should exist, same as it requires "not moving" or something.

So, the camo mechanics in BK could be a lot better without making it usless. We dont need soldiers that cant be seen even when stepping on them and we also dont need soliders that go camo in mid combat by simply throwing themselves into the dirt. And we dont need tanks that go ambush just like that. Not long ago i had a situation when a tank went into camo just when my units were about to fire. It was like the already released shot has put itself back into the barrel because the camo kicked in just when the gunner pulled the trigger.
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

If the "unit in combat" thing could be successfully applied/implemented to TDs, AT guns & camo ability for inf without causing issues, then i wouldn't mind it.

Also, here is a note:
The reveal range for AT guns seem bigger than some tanks, currently.
in the future; if a standardization was to happen.. then i would probably make it so that soldiers are revealed at 5, AT guns revealed at 10 & all tanks revealed at 15 detection range.

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Consti255 »

Krieger Blitzer wrote:
13 Apr 2022, 14:48
If the "unit in combat" thing could be successfully applied/implemented to TDs, AT guns & camo ability for inf without causing issues, then i wouldn't mind it.

Also, here is a note:
The reveal range for AT guns seem bigger than some tanks, currently.
in the future; if a standardization was to happen.. then i would probably make it so that soldiers are revealed at 5, AT guns revealed at 10 & all tanks revealed at 15 detection range.
agreed,
i would even go further and make tanks appear faster, while AT guns stay hidden longer because of their smaller silhouette.
They are aswell harder to get in position and more fragile since they can get taken out even by small gun fire, while a HT or TD needs a AT capable weapon atleast.
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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Walderschmidt »

Is there a way to change detection range by unit type?

Say AT guns:

Detection range = 10 for tanks to see them, 5 for infantry to see them

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Re: Check this SAS bug, how 1 man is in a parallel universe demolishing buildings by scouts, Vampires

Post by Krieger Blitzer »

Walderschmidt wrote:
13 Apr 2022, 22:25
Is there a way to change detection range by unit type?

Say AT guns:

Detection range = 10 for tanks to see them, 5 for infantry to see them

Wald
I think it's possible, but i would rather not.. sounds a bit more complex to have different detection ranges for the same unit rather than simply a unified detection range which is only different to spotter units, regardless of being scout or a recon vehicle.. it's more simple to do it so that all spotting tools have same detection range as well, not based on their unit type.

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