Seven man rifleman squad

[rappatix]

Hello!

I'm not sure about if there has been a change in the performance of BARs but I do know for sure that the cost of regular rifleman have been decreased. So how about the call-in seven man rifleman squad that comes equipped with two BARs. If the BAR's performance have been decreased or, as I have heard, only gives you the suppression ability and nothing else, then something surely has to be changed about the seven man rifleman squad, right? I don't have any suggestions about what to do, I'm just bringing this up in hope of someone else coming with a good solution. So, first thing first:

1. Have there been a change to the BAR?

2. If it has or if it has not, what to do about the seven man rifleman squad?

[tarakancheg]

BAR is a straight upgrade from garand.
While rifle squad and BAR both became cheaper this squad cost is fine because:
1. No build time after captain.
2. squad has a lot of DPS and survivability at all stages of the game thanks to 7 man in a squad.
3. 2 free BARs
4. Inf doc is stong as it is and needs no buffs currently.

[Ralf0206]

I agree with this post.

[Lari20752]

either make them more impactful or just remove them
2 rifleman squads (which cost slightly more) are just better than them, even without upgrades
and give you way more utility

[MarKr]

1. Have there been a change to the BAR?

2. If it has or if it has not, what to do about the seven man rifleman squad?

I think the weapon hasn't been changed, but the squad comes with one BAR instead of two. Just like the normal Riflemen can upgrade BAR only once now.

If I remeber it right, it was because the squad was used in early game to gain a very strong advantage as its cost was low and the free double BAR saved you 50 ammo. Counterplay was also difficult as axis didn't have any similarly cost-effective infantry squad this early on.

Changes are of course possible but try to think of such changes that don't bring back the strategy of "rush Captain and this squad as soon as possible every single game".

[rappatix]

Yea yea yea. I tried the BAR out and I think that it doesn't do any less damage than it did before. I have no idea how that rumor got started. O.o
Then there is just the price discussion to solve if it is even worth solving.

I thought that the BAR had lost all its damage because some people told me that was the case.

[tarakancheg]

If I remeber it right, it was because the squad was used in early game to gain a very strong advantage as its cost was low and the free double BAR saved you 50 ammo. Counterplay was also difficult as axis didn't have any similarly cost-effective infantry squad this early on.

HMG 42 moment.

but the squad comes with one BAR instead of two.

Still 2 BAR's.

[MarKr]

Yea yea yea. I tried the BAR out and I think that it doesn't do any less damage than it did before. I have no idea how that rumor got started. O.o

I think Sukin used to talk about BAR as "totally useless" after BAR was changed to be unable to shoot on the move. Given how low accuracy it had on the move, I would say the "DPS" difference was negligible but he saw it his way.

HMG 42 moment.

Sure, I meant non-weapon team infantry. Weapon teams lack mobility and versatile abilities of standard infantry squads.

Still 2 BAR's.

So, maybe we limited BARs to 1, people complained the squad was useless, so we returned the 2nd BAR and restricted the squad to infantry doc only? There were some changes like that, I would have to check the changelogs.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think Sukin used to talk about BAR as "totally useless" after BAR was changed to be unable to shoot on the move. Given how low accuracy it had on the move, I would say the "DPS" difference was negligible but he saw it his way.

I think you mean Johnson LMGs, as i don't think BARs being able to fire on the move has ever changed.

BARs were limited to 1 due to the suppression increase, iirc.
And then they were made 2 BARs for the 7 men squad to make it unique compared to regular Riflemen, as far as i recall.

[MarKr]

Seems I don't remember anything anymore lol

[Redgaarden]

Dont forget 7man come in default with mass production so they are cheaper to reinforce.

2. squad has a lot of DPS and survivability at all stages of the game thanks to 7 man in a squad.

They are quite susceptible to explosives since per model has 33% less tankiness than a ranger which puts them in the one shot range of a lot of stuff rangers typically survive.

Can't think of any reason why you would actually get a BAR. I would use grease guns even at long range before I got myself a BAR.

[kwok]

In my PvP experience, the 7-man rifle utility doesn't come in a micro but macro sense. A zero build time alone is worth the extra 80mp cost, let alone the extra BAR and survivability.

That being said, i'm not personally against a change/buff to the 7man rifle unit BUT i would HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend a counterbalane to any proposed changes. I remember back in the really early changes (pre-kar98 reworks) the 7man rifleman squad won 1v1 games within 5 minutes no matter WHAT faction/doctrine matchup.