ALRS for Allies

[idliketoplaybetter]

My point was exactly that, if there is no balance or gameplay issues related to this, giving this debatable ability anywhere won't help making game more fun. Whatever you think about fun argument, this is not critical and highly asked among people.


And yet again, command units and auras already doing enough impact on units effectiveness, which is also by itself debatable.

[MarKr]

ALRS ability was meant for 88 tanks only.

However; it got added to Panther ACE at some point.. that's when i believe now it should also be given to both the Firefly & Pershing ACE.

This is not accurate. The ALRS wasn't meant to be "exclusive" to 88mm tanks or anything. It was meant to represent the fact that Axis guns/tanks were more accurate over larger distance back in the war. The Tigers were probably most famous for this but Panther gun's accuracy was pretty similar to the Tiger gun (or at least as far as I know).

So the quoted "justification" sort of falls apart here. Panther ace got it to set it apart from the other Panther versions and the "axis guns were more accurate" behind the ability applies there too. I seem to recall that the 90mm gun on Pershings were not as accurate, so the underlying thought behind the ability would not fit here thematically (although I'm not sure about the accuracy of the gun). What is easily accessible, is the information that the 90mm gun had higher penetration drop over distance when compared to the 88mm guns, which is already somewhat reflected in the game. If we keep the current penetration drop, it is possible that the Pershing gun with the range boost would bounce off of Tigers and Panthers very often and so the ability would have no practical use - you can destroy medium tanks relatively safely with the standard range, super heavies are already hard to penetrate with the 90mm gun, so more range would make them practically ineffective, and if the shots will bounce more often from Tigers and Panthers, people will not use the ability, because it will be considered a waste of ammo against those targets. Maybe it would penetrate Panthers still relatively easily but then it is an ability that is a hard-counter to a specific unit, so the usage is extremely nieche.

I don't see much practicality in givng the Pershing ace this ability. The Pershings would probably benefit more from something else, such as making the "fast reload" work on the move (with a considerable accuracy penalty) or something.

[Krieger Blitzer]

ALRS ability was meant for 88 tanks only.

However; it got added to Panther ACE at some point.. that's when i believe now it should also be given to both the Firefly & Pershing ACE.

This is not accurate. The ALRS wasn't meant to be "exclusive" to 88mm tanks or anything. It was meant to represent the fact that Axis guns/tanks were more accurate over larger distance back in the war. The Tigers were probably most famous for this but Panther gun's accuracy was pretty similar to the Tiger gun (or at least as far as I know).

So the quoted "justification" sort of falls apart here. Panther ace got it to set it apart from the other Panther versions and the "axis guns were more accurate" behind the ability applies there too. I seem to recall that the 90mm gun on Pershings were not as accurate, so the underlying thought behind the ability would not fit here thematically (although I'm not sure about the accuracy of the gun). What is easily accessible, is the information that the 90mm gun had higher penetration drop over distance when compared to the 88mm guns, which is already somewhat reflected in the game. If we keep the current penetration drop, it is possible that the Pershing gun with the range boost would bounce off of Tigers and Panthers very often and so the ability would have no practical use - you can destroy medium tanks relatively safely with the standard range, super heavies are already hard to penetrate with the 90mm gun, so more range would make them practically ineffective, and if the shots will bounce more often from Tigers and Panthers, people will not use the ability, because it will be considered a waste of ammo against those targets. Maybe it would penetrate Panthers still relatively easily but then it is an ability that is a hard-counter to a specific unit, so the usage is extremely nieche.

I don't see much practicality in givng the Pershing ace this ability. The Pershings would probably benefit more from something else, such as making the "fast reload" work on the move (with a considerable accuracy penalty) or something.

The Pershing ACE could benefit from the ALRS against units like the Nashorn, KT for bigger chances to compete against those when it arrives late at 12 CPs.

Tho, if you think that something else would be better.. then i am fine with that too, but i am more thinking about the Pershing ACE in particular; this unit needs some useful special ability to justify the 12 CPs.. normal Pershings are completely fine where they are now.

As for Firefly, it doesn't seem like a debatable suggestion, unlike the Pershimg Ace.. people don't seem to mind giving ALRS for Firefly at vet2 really.. after all, it can help a veteran Firefly against TDs & Panthers.. or even vs Pz4s which can easily destroy the Firefly at standard range.

[rappatix]

I would like to remind you that reducing Pershing ace cost will reduce the cost of SP too. Also Pershing Ace ALRS will just remove panthers from the game completely. Also command car improves range of ALRS too if i am not forgetting anything.

Doesn't that also apply to KT with ALRS? I mean that it basically removes Pershings from the game.

[tarakancheg]

Doesn't that also apply to KT with ALRS? I mean that it basically removes Pershings from the game.

KT needs at least some vet.
P Ace will be able to roll the dice on panthers 1 shots outright with vet 2.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Doesn't that also apply to KT with ALRS? I mean that it basically removes Pershings from the game.

KT needs at least some vet.
P Ace will be able to roll the dice on panthers 1 shots outright with vet 2.

One of the suggestions was to allow it for Pershing Ace at vet3, same as Panther Ace.

[CGarr]

I wouldn't having the ability be locked behind vet, having the option late game would be nice regardless of how long it takes to get.

As for the comments about pershing's long range pen, I don't see an issue with 90mm guns not being able to pen heavies frontally at extreme range, you can still go for long range flanking shots and the ability would only need to pen once to give you an opportunity to push against an enemy heavy with an advantage.

You can take advantage of the relatively low cost of normal pershings by using them to force an enemy heavy to commit its front armor to a certain direction, providing an opening for your pershing ace to fire an ALRS at the enemy heavy's rear.

As for Tiger's comment about ALRS being a thing mainly associated with 88's, 88's would still have a massive advantage when using this ability, so the whole "axis tanks are better at long range" theme would still be present. You would still have to outplay them somewhat, ALRS on pershing ace would just provide another means of doing so.


I also wouldn't mind seeing ALRS on the firefly even if locked behind vet, that tank just sucks ass at all stages of the game. It is useless on the offensive unless your opponent refuses to build anything but p4s, and even P4 F2s can regularly beat it if they attack as a pair. On the defensive, your opponent will just wait until they have something with longer range, which isn't hard to get on axis since 4 of their 6 doctrines have a late game TD / heavy that can snipe it. Axis also has a lot of really heavy arty options to scare the firefly into getting out of stationary mode if they want to play it even more safe.