ALRS for Allies

[Krieger Blitzer]

ALRS ability was meant for 88 tanks only.

However; it got added to Panther ACE at some point.. that's when i believe now it should also be given to both the Firefly & Pershing ACE.

ONLY the Pershing ACE, so not to normal Pershings.

For the Firefly, it will be at vet2 (Static position ability stays untouched) and i think this won't be OP or anything, because keeping a Firefly alive that long is often quite hard anyways.

Pershing ACE having ALRS is also reasonable, because it requires 12 CPs as it shares same unlock with SP.

[tarakancheg]

100% against Pershing ACE ALRS, panthers are already in bad state and with this panther vs pershing will turn into sherman vs Tiger ACE except the fuel trade is not 1 to 5(sherman/tiger) but 1 to 2 (panther/pershing).
Firefly with ALRS may be intresting but i doubt it will be usefull against anything bigger than pz4, panther has a good armor against 17p and tiger has ALRS that is capable of 1 shoting firefly.

[Consti255]

100% against Pershing ACE ALRS, panthers are already in bad state and with this panther vs pershing will turn into sherman vs Tiger ACE except the fuel trade is not 1 to 5(sherman/tiger) but 1 to 2 (panther/pershing).
Firefly with ALRS may be intresting but i doubt it will be usefull against anything bigger than pz4, panther has a good armor against 17p and tiger has ALRS that is capable of 1 shoting firefly.

agree.
I dont think Panthers are in a bad state, but they suck against Pershings.
Honestly, i would simply remove the Super Pershing and give the Pershings ACE other tools, but not the ALRS.
So there is no choice you have to do. But i made already a post over the SP and Pershing ACE reward dilemma.


On the Firefly i think that concept could be interesting.
1. You dont get free vet with the CP unlock
2. Its way harder to vet up a Firefly than a Pershing

[Krieger Blitzer]

interesting to see you both agree on Firefly but disagree with the Pershing ACE.

I personally don't think it's a big deal if Pershing ACE gets ALRS, Panther ACE is available earlier at 8 CP with ALRS ability at vet 3 (could be made at vet2 so it's available right away for Panther ACE when Pershing ACE gets the same ability) so i don't think it's a big deal knowing that a player with Pershing ACE doesn't have the option to SP.


As for Firefly, yes.. it's probably the tank that needed ALRS the most, since it's a dedicated long range unit in the first place.

[idliketoplaybetter]

I am purely against giving more alrs to any unit.

Ability isn't gameplay wise fun mechanic, tank engagements in the game are already back and forth shoot ground over limit of range crap.
Never seen more abusive thing in the game before that is used majorly by everyone.


This alrs garbage is only tolerable because limited to one case in the game.

[Redgaarden]

Pershing ALRS = Fuck everything panther and weaker units.

Firefly ALRS = Fuck pz4 and everything weaker, sometimes.

I dont really care about firefly but I pershing should not get ALRS since it can one shot Panthers. And ALRS being a pretty un-fun mechanic in general.

[Krieger Blitzer]

ALRS is a reward ability for special tanks that you get to have if you successfully manage to keep your tank alive for long enough.

Everyone has his opinion, but i think the ability is both fun and fair for the tanks that already have it, as well as for the tanks suggested in this thread.
Particularly the Firefly.

[tarakancheg]

And ALRS being a pretty un-fun mechanic in general.

It is fun... If you are not oj a receiving end of this ability

ALRS is a reward ability for special tanks that you get to have if you successfully manage to keep your tank alive for long enough.

Tiger ace has ALRS from deployment, getting vet 2 on non ace tigers is a breeze so i dont know what are you getting rewarded for in this case.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Getting a vet2 Tiger isn't a breeze, and ALRS is an ability that is mostly available on unique tanks that are expensive, tanks of which are not easily obtainable themselves, not to mention the ability requires 50 ammo and can still bounce off... Also needs good spotting since tanks view got reduced.

ALRS has become nothing but a mediocre ability; it's literally an ordinary shot for 50 ammo.. but at long range.

Allowing it for Firefly would be the first time ALRS is available for a relatively cheap tank.. however; it won't be a problem cuz it dies easily in return & still requires veterancy.. so i don't see why you are so scared of the ALRS.

[Walderschmidt]

You know what tank would benefit from ALRS?

The Marder Geschützwagon that defense doctrine gets.

Wald

[Krieger Blitzer]

You know what tank would benefit from ALRS?

The Marder Geschützwagon that defense doctrine gets.

Wald

It won't even live until then... Static Position is enough, which it already has.
Not to mention the 75mm L43 isn't that accurate.

My intention is not to allow ALRS ability all over the place.. plus; Axis already have enough tanks with this ability.

I suggested to give it to Firefly (which is purely a dedicated long range unit) and/or Pershing ACE because it arrives too late in the field since it shares SP unlock.. both are Allied units.

Though, i don't get how some people think it's a bad mechanic when it's really nothing but a regular shot for 50 ammo at long range which can still be deflected & achieve nothing.. needless to say it requires veterancy AND recently in one of the updates the range brackets were tweaked so that its penetration chances are less at "distant range" meaning it's more likely to bounce off at longer ranges, so it's a double edged sword.

[Consti255]

I am purely against giving more alrs to any unit.

Ability isn't gameplay wise fun mechanic, tank engagements in the game are already back and forth shoot ground over limit of range crap.
Never seen more abusive thing in the game before that is used majorly by everyone.


This alrs garbage is only tolerable because limited to one case in the game.

fine with that aswell.

[Consti255]

You know what tank would benefit from ALRS?

The Marder Geschützwagon that defense doctrine gets.

Wald

This unit in general just sucks lol.
honestly i dont have any idea to make it worth getting, except a CP unlock with Marder mass production which make it cheap as hell

[rappatix]

Getting a vet2 Tiger isn't a breeze, and ALRS is an ability that is mostly available on unique tanks that are expensive, tanks of which are not easily obtainable themselves, not to mention the ability requires 50 ammo and can still bounce off... Also needs good spotting since tanks view got reduced.

ALRS has become nothing but a mediocre ability; it's literally an ordinary shot for 50 ammo.. but at long range.

Allowing it for Firefly would be the first time ALRS is available for a relatively cheap tank.. however; it won't be a problem cuz it dies easily in return & still requires veterancy.. so i don't see why you are so scared of the ALRS.

Doesn't that description fit some of the Pershing variants though? :O The only good argument I can come up with is that it's a good ability for breaking down stalemates. I think it's unfair that only one of the two sides have access to it. If anyone thinks that it's not suitable for some Pershing variant because then it can easily one shot Panthers then I can use the very same argument for KT vs Pershings. I see no problem here. Also, the ability literally have a cooldown of some 30 seconds which makes it spammable if you have the required munition income.

[tarakancheg]

Proposal:
ALL ALRS requirement vet 3.
ALRS aim time becomes 5-7 sec.
Firefly gets ALRS BUT to use it Firefly has to get to stationary position. ALRS has old aim time to compensate for a fact that it has to lock down.

[MEFISTO]

Remove this ability from the game. Problem solved.

[Krieger Blitzer]

@Rappa

No, it doesn't fit the description for Pershings.. just the same way how it doesn't fit for Panthers either.
The only reason it was given to Panther ACE was to make it more unique from other Panthers. Thus it was given to Panther ACE at vet3 (Panther ACE arrives at vet2 so it needs to gain 1 more vet level to use it) and therefore i believe Pershing ACE should be treated similarily, only because it shares the same unlock with SP (which is available vry late at 12 CP) If the Pershing ACE was available at 8 CP for example, i wouldn't suggest adding ALRS for it at all... Pershings don't need this ability, they get range bounses from Command car & can use free veterancy unlocks.. not to mention Armor doc is very capable of spamming them with improved fuel upkeeps.

And the cool-down is currently appropriate, it's not too short or too long.. & definitely not spammable.
Each time 50 ammo is paid, which can still deflect too.. so spamming this isn't even a viable option, and the ability isn't easily obtainable as it requires keeping ur expensive unit alive until the required veterancy level is gained.


@Tara
Such a proposal is completely out of scope in my opinion.
First, ALRS already has around 4 to 5 seconds aim time in most cases.. it's setup so that the aim time is less however if the tank needs to reposition or rotate its turret. And it's one of the trickiest abilities to deal with in Corsix, & the functions of the ability were revised several times before & now the functions are carefully configured at last... Currently it works properly for all tanks that have it, any longer aim time would lead to misfunction of the ability, and therefore; no tweaks are needed, and the current functions of the ability should never be fiddled up with at any point in the future.

Either that we agree ALRS to be added for Firefly with no changes to the current functions whatsoever or we leave it there and it doesn't get added\changed or modified anywhere.. this topic would then be just another suggesstion that didn't make it, which is fine at this point.. not the end of the world. Tho, i'm completely against "tweaking\changing" or adjusting the current ability functions at any rate.

@MEFISTO
Nowadays "just remove it" has become a trend... This is not a solution to anything.
Not to mention; there is no "problem" here in the first place or anything that needs "solving", we are just discussing whether or not to add it to Firefly\Pershing ACE.
If not, then everything stays the same.. nothing needs to be removed or tweaked.

[rappatix]

@Krieger Blitzer

Yes, that description fits some of the Pershing variants. It's just plain old unfair that axis has access to an ability that might just as well be available fro allies. If Panther ace can have it then I don't see why Pershing Ace can't have it.

[idliketoplaybetter]

There are many things and abilities that factions don't share among each other. That what makes both sides exclusively interesting to play.
The same way, this ability, aside of all downsides, is unique to specific unit/s.


Not necessarily against this argument by itself, but don't think that should be the reasoning behind implementing anything to anywhere further.

[Krieger Blitzer]

If Panther ace can have it then I don't see why Pershing Ace can't have it.

+1

That, we agree on.

The same way, this ability, aside of all downsides, is unique to specific unit/s.

Can't disagree with that either.

Hence, i am carefully suggesting to add the ability on the Allied side only for specific units.. for instance; this is also why i opposed Walder's idea to allow the ability for Marders, since the goal isn't to spread the ability across more units in the game, nor to "even" both sides with the same special abilities, but to provide this ability to certain Allied units where it makes sense & is much needed.


Overall, i think while adding this ability to Pershing Ace might be controversial.. i can tell that it doesn't seem to be the same concerning the Firefly on the other hand.
So, i'd say at least the Firefly should have it at vet2.

And if ever added to Pershing Ace, then maybe at vet3, just like Panther Ace.

[idliketoplaybetter]

How is it "much" needed from your words?

How ability that simply lets you shoot over the limit of sensable range is needed, when already, you can have situatons of Pershings (ace or not, vet dont matter) being unintuitively farther shooters with use of Command m20 car?

It would make micro play with expensive untis even less active. This ability is garbage suitable just for meme unit Tiger, but we "much need" it more..

[Krieger Blitzer]

The ability is much needed for a Pershing Ace that arrives after 12 CPs.
& the Firefly has weak armor but supposed to be a long range unit so it deserves the ability with vet.

The ability is garbage; is your opinion.
Tho, in my eyes; the ability makes total sense for the tanks that have it & is totally fair under the current conditions.

[idliketoplaybetter]

High CP price is why ability is needed? So for example, if we cut the CP price down, ability wont be needed? As again. Using Command car m20 is even more effective.

It's not only my opinion, even listed among people here.

What does fair or not has to do here? I am talking of mechanical use and aplication, which people alike me here dont find "fun".

[Krieger Blitzer]

High CP price is why ability is needed? So for example, if we cut the CP price down, ability wont be needed? As again. Using Command car m20 is even more effective.

Yes; i even said that above myself:

therefore i believe Pershing ACE should be treated similarily, only because it shares the same unlock with SP (which is available vry late at 12 CP) If the Pershing ACE was available at 8 CP for example, i wouldn't suggest adding ALRS for it at all... Pershings don't need this ability, they get range bounses from Command car & can use free veterancy unlocks.. not to mention Armor doc is very capable of spamming them with improved fuel upkeeps

However; this doesn't mean that i am suggesting to lower CP requirement for Pershing Ace, as i am fine with it staying 12 CPs, but then should get the ALRS, at least at vet3.

It's not only my opinion, even listed among people here.

What does fair or not has to do here? I am talking of mechanical use and aplication, which people alike me here dont find "fun".

I know it's not only ur opinion, there are those who think it's not fun.. & those who don't mind it.. & those who find it fun with conditions... & That's why we are discussing.

[tarakancheg]

I would like to remind you that reducing Pershing ace cost will reduce the cost of SP too. Also Pershing Ace ALRS will just remove panthers from the game completely. Also command car improves range of ALRS too if i am not forgetting anything.