Artillery makes this game unplayable

[MEFISTO]

Any game where more than 60% of players pick artillery makes the game a hell crap artillery nightmare. Almost all of the maps are too small and players always want to play the same crapy map. I would suggest limiting ALL kinds of artillery to 1 piece per kind, for example, 1/105mm M2A1 L/22.5 Howitzer and 1/ 105mm M2A1 L/22.5 Howitzer Emplacement plus 1/Priest, I took as example Allies artillery, this amount of artillery is more than enough. I also recommend limiting all axis Rocket vehicles to 1 and Churchil 95 mm artillery.
NO skills are needed to sit behind a good camp and delete any enemy unit with this artillery spam.
I don't really like limiting units, but guys this game is a hell of artillery.

[tarakancheg]

This nerf will be a 2-edged sword, because while artylirry helps with camping, it also helps you to break through heavy camp zones and thus you will make it harder to camp.
"Then just nerf emplacements"
we have recently nerfed arty, and as devs stated earlier "we wont change x if it needs to change y to change z".
Also arty recently got nerfed by adding tank factory as requirement.
P.S. Play bigger maps if maps are too small lol.

[Red]

While I would be totally fine with limiting big howitzers (both stationary and mobile) to 1 per unit, I believe that then stationary artillery should be buffed, but not in terms of output (damage):

• For static emplacements with a ring of sandbags, I would propose to increase HP

• For the solo-howitzers, I would propose to make them movable at a very slow rate. Especially on bigger maps, when the front shifts you need to re-allocate your arty because of range constraints. With static emplacements you can click on, use the Del-key and have it self-destuct. Then you can build somewhere else. But with the solo-howitzers, there is no self-destruct. So currently you have to blow it up (with pioneers), if you have to move it because of pop-cap issues.

• For static and solo, ensure that it works. Especially with Def Doc I have experienced numerout times, that the 105mm will not fire at a certain area in range using regular ammo. It will get into fireing positon (raise the barrel), but never fire a single shell. When using the long-range shells, it will work, but then again the spread on these is much-much bigger and they are more expensive. I suspect it has something to do with the terrain angle the howitzer is standing on, but that is just a guess...

Overall, when not playing 1 vs 1, in my opinion one player should either have air support or artillery, because combined arms are superior. I do not think limiting these units will change that.

[MEFISTO]

This nerf will be a 2-edged sword, because while artylirry helps with camping, it also helps you to break through heavy camp zones and thus you will make it harder to camp.
"Then just nerf emplacements"
we have recently nerfed arty, and as devs stated earlier "we wont change x if it needs to change y to change z".
Also arty recently got nerfed by adding tank factory as requirement.
P.S. Play bigger maps if maps are too small lol.

The problem is players always want to play the same crappy maps. Talking about camping, PE already got NERF they can’t build bunkers except SE,( the mortar bunker), 3 artillery piece in a artillery doctrine should be more than enough to deal with campaign without mentioning artillery from team mate can help also to deal with this campaign.
Artillery spamming is a real problem right now.

[tarakancheg]

The problem is players always want to play the same crappy maps.

You can host lobbies yourself.
You can hop on BK discord and play with people that actually play good maps.
You can play on 3/3 maps in 2/2.
Or wait for map rework that will come someday. I am not an arty player myself, but i think the arty rn is fine.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think arty is currently in a good state, relative to camping.. both balnced against 1 another.

[Warhawks97]

I am against silly limits. Like if war is a football game where it is allowed to have just a certain ammont of players on the field, including at best one goalkeeper. War simply isnt a football game.

The second reason i am against a general limit is because of how different they are. If players can only have one artillery unitsof each type, units like grille will become even more dominant because you cant get overwhelming numbers against them anymore.

The third reason is because at some maps and extrem camping games you need more units. One static howitzer on maps like fields of engagment is simply bullshit if you want to provide support for your team.

Fourth reason is that certain systems are only effective in numbers and for nonstop bombardment like the 25 pdr guns.



My conclusion is as it always was and is: Cost-Efficency-Ratio
There is NO drawback when spending 2 CP (if any) and 375MP into a howitzer. There simply is none. In war, everything has its drawbacks, even artillery. Artillery as a weapon system is a quite sophisticated, that requires a lot of labour hours, ressources, time to get well trained crews, that can wore out in the field and which needs maintanance and which requires a huge logistical supply base to get all the ammo required to the guns. Its quite the same as with tanks: Both these weapon systems have only advantages they realistically have (hell lot of firepower and being very destructive) but none of these weapon systems really require ressources they realistically would do.

So, how things would actually be in war, in how they would be from a gameplay-perspective, and thats how it works in every RTS strat game of this type:

Infantry and Weapon crews
1. Base line Infantry being cheap and mass-deployable and forming the bulk of combat forces that are also flexible in usage.
2. Weapon Teams being the cheapest type of support weapons. Mainly HMG´s and mortars that would cost just a fraction of a heavy artillery piece

You can deploy multiple of these units for low cost and relative low upkeep. The MP cost would range between 160-270.

light/medium AT guns, vehicles, light tanks and light arty
3. Heavy mortars
4. Vehicles and light tanks
5. AT guns and medium arty

These are the next "level". They require more time to build, cost more upkeep and MP to field as well as fuel (vehicles). On average the MP cost would be arround 255-310 MP. Fuel would be arround 35 at maximum. The MP cost are higher already.

They pack mobility at the one hand while also offering indirect firepower options and anti vehicle/tank options

Medium Tanks, medium Artillery, heavy AT
6. Heavy AT guns
7. Medium Tanks
8. Medium Arty

These units will already multiply the firepower of your army. The MP cost would be arround 310-600 MP (except for Panther counting as beefy medium). Fuel cost would range from 80-120 fuel for tanks and arty. The MP upkeep for maintanance will affect your war economy even more, as well as the fuel upkeep to keep the systems running and supplied.


Heavy Artillery and tanks
9. Heavy Arty
10. Heavy Tanks

Both these systems are extremely potent when well used but require carefull selection. MP cost range from 600-1100 MP. Fuel from 120-180. The upkeep in terms of MP and upkeep will be quite significant.





I think if we would follow these simple rules, the game would already be much better. But no limit on any unit will ever improve the game. As long as you can get artillery for a lower price than a infantry unit or weapon crew, the situation will not improve at all.

[MarKr]

I would suggest limiting ALL kinds of artillery to 1 piece per kind, for example, 1/105mm M2A1 L/22.5 Howitzer and 1/ 105mm M2A1 L/22.5 Howitzer Emplacement plus 1/Priest, I took as example Allies artillery, this amount of artillery is more than enough.

Limits on 105 howitzers, Nebels and similar infantry-operated units solves nothing. People will build one, use grenades to kill the crew themselves, build another one, kill crew, another one, kill crew and so on until they have as many as they want and then use the cheapest infantry to crew all the weapons.
Such a limit would put vehicle-mounted arty into a huge disadvantage.

It is literally what you, and a few other people said:

Almost all of the maps are too small and players always want to play the same crapy map.

P.S. Play bigger maps if maps are too small lol.

You can hop on BK discord and play with people that actually play good maps.

People on Discord got (mostly) rid of the "small maps foreva" mentality, so try to look for people to play with there.
I really don't wanna make balance changes just because some people cannot understand a simple direction of "don't play on small maps".

[MEFISTO]

I would suggest limiting ALL kinds of artillery to 1 piece per kind, for example, 1/105mm M2A1 L/22.5 Howitzer and 1/ 105mm M2A1 L/22.5 Howitzer Emplacement plus 1/Priest, I took as example Allies artillery, this amount of artillery is more than enough.

Limits on 105 howitzers, Nebels and similar infantry-operated units solves nothing. People will build one, use grenades to kill the crew themselves, build another one, kill crew, another one, kill crew and so on until they have as many as they want and then use the cheapest infantry to crew all the weapons.
Such a limit would put vehicle-mounted arty into a huge disadvantage.

It is literally what you, and a few other people said:

Almost all of the maps are too small and players always want to play the same crapy map.

P.S. Play bigger maps if maps are too small lol.

You can hop on BK discord and play with people that actually play good maps.

People on Discord got (mostly) rid of the "small maps foreva" mentality, so try to look for people to play with there.
I really don't wanna make balance changes just because some people cannot understand a simple direction of "don't play on small maps".

Yes I understand, but unfortunately my mates only play on those crappy maps, they love them that is why they all are artillery spammers. You guys are right when you said kill the crew and build a new one.
But something needs to be done, I don’t know if cooldown time needs to be increased a bit or price per piece I don’t know.
I am not an artillery guy that is why I hate this artillery spammers.
I don’t know may be I am wrong.