Stubby 75 HE

[Krieger Blitzer]

is it just me or i think the HE round on Axis stubby tanks (Pz.3 & Pz4 E & F1) have been nerfed so hard?? Their performance is just so bad compared to 75mm Shermans.. to the point that i think these stubby tanks are pretty much useless vs SAS & 82nd AB units.. they can rush & kill them frontally with little to low risk.

[Frost]

i honestly never understand why sherman is the only tank in the game where you can just trust it's HE round i guess because you spend 90 ammo on it? but yeah i had countless cases where allies do this brainless rush with their bazooka team and make it through to kill your pz3/4 i guess hans had too much Panzerschokolade (yes smith)

it's probably one of the things that i just looked over as with axis things you are not supposed to be cost effective or something i just never got the logic.

[Consti255]

.50 cal is just brutal aswell.
You can pinn down everything in seconds while you have the most lethal HE.

I think, if it would be somehow possible to get topgunners for the stubbys, it would solve many things.

[MarKr]

You specifically mention SAS and 82nd. How does it fare against other infantry? If it constantly fails to hit/deal damage to, let's say, Riflemen, then there could be something wrong with the weapon but if it only deals poorly with these two squads, it could be some cummulative effect of higher veterancy, unlock bonuses and other factors.

Also, you no longer need to pay 70 or 90 or whatever ammo for the upgrade, should these guns often 1-shot entire squads? Wouldn't that be too cost-effective?

Last but not least: Isn't it just buttered bread effect? Do you have replays where this issue is well enough shown?

[Warhawks97]

from my experience these unist have extremley deadly HE shots. High vet+elite+smoke+cover is an issue but thats true for petty much all tanks. Sherman has the advantage of faster turret traverese and top mounted cal 50 (if added) that adds some additional prior, during and after the HE landed.

But so far and against everything else the HE from 75 mm stubby german tanks is extremely potent.

[Krieger Blitzer]

You specifically mention SAS and 82nd. How does it fare against other infantry? If it constantly fails to hit/deal damage to, let's say, Riflemen, then there could be something wrong with the weapon but if it only deals poorly with these two squads, it could be some cummulative effect of higher veterancy, unlock bonuses and other factors.

Also, you no longer need to pay 70 or 90 or whatever ammo for the upgrade, should these guns often 1-shot entire squads? Wouldn't that be too cost-effective?

Last but not least: Isn't it just buttered bread effect? Do you have replays where this issue is well enough shown?

it's average against other units, which means that it's still far worse than the Sherman... Not to mention Pz3 (in particular) had mobility nerf (turret rotation got significantly slower) and the armor was also nerfed (20% weaker vs all cannons) and the rate of fire also became slower... Pz3 feels like a slower & weaker version of Pz4.E right now.

The fact that they don't need to pay ammo for HE should not negate their efficiency vs inf, given how 75 Shermans are both effective vs inf with HE but also vs Pz4s with AP rounds as well.. and it takes only 15 seconds to switch. So, paying for the ammo isn't exactly a drawback as the AP gun is still effective...

I will share some replays of this & test them more.. but even now, it's safe to say that 75mm Sherman now counters ALL Axis inf no matter how elite, whereas Pz4.E & F1 as well as Pz3.N are extremely ineffective vs SAS & 82nd AB which are the main units that such HE tanks are supposed to counter.. otherwise you can just use HE halfteacks vs other regular inf.

[Warhawks97]

might be related to target tables. Perhaps this gun also has reduced accuracy vs moving AB_inf_type. But Luftwaffe fallis do have AB type as well i think.
In any way, i dont feel 75 mm german HE is underwhelimg in any way or against standard inf. At least i never had issues here.

Actually german 75 mm has better accuracy stats than the allied 75 mm sherman HE gun.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Back to this topic...

I just wanna say Pz3 really sucks.. it's a free XP unit for any AT team.

Misses all the time vs trenches.. and deals low damage on direct hits.

I dare to say M5 Stuart does triple more damage.

Pz3 was nerfed in accuracy, mobility (gun rotation became slower), armor (20% easier to pen by all weapons) & rate of fire was also decreased...

[Walderschmidt]

Back to this topic...

I just wanna say Pz3 really sucks.. it's a free XP unit for any AT team.

Misses all the time vs trenches.. and deals low damage on direct hits.

I dare to say M5 Stuart does triple more damage.

Pz3 was nerfed in accuracy, mobility (gun rotation became slower), armor (20% easier to pen by all weapons) & rate of fire was also decreased...

And moved to T3 when it used to be T2.

It made sense to nerf it when it came so early - even earlier than a Sherman.

But now it’s just a worse version of the Panzer IV Stubby where you pay more for a tank that’s worse. The only time it’s truly worth it is when you get the assault group because at least that tank comes with the HEAT round loaded and ready to go.

Wald

[Warhawks97]

Panzer III armor should not be weaker than that of regular 75 mm stubby Panzer IV´s.

[Tor]

Maybe its speed? or both gun and speed, or something else? i feel better with M4 without 50 call than with PZ-4F1.
Its die here, die there, work good only vs base)

[tarakancheg]

Why not make pz3 more protected from zook and piats then at guns because it has armor skirts? And buff ita reload speed to make it a pz 4 sidegrade in such a manner that it can better withstand zooks and switch targets faster? And buff pz 4 HE AOE slightly.

[Warhawks97]

Why not make pz3 more protected from zook and piats then at guns because it has armor skirts? And buff ita reload speed to make it a pz 4 sidegrade in such a manner that it can better withstand zooks and switch targets faster? And buff pz 4 HE AOE slightly.

the issue is the target table thing. We dont have a specific Panzer III TT and for sure none with skirts. There are 3 different Panzer IV TT available atm. One is not in use (Panzer IV D). It Could be used for the Panzer III and changed to the required or desired stats.

[tarakancheg]

Why not make pz3 more protected from zook and piats then at guns because it has armor skirts? And buff ita reload speed to make it a pz 4 sidegrade in such a manner that it can better withstand zooks and switch targets faster? And buff pz 4 HE AOE slightly.

the issue is the target table thing. We dont have a specific Panzer III TT and for sure none with skirts. There are 3 different Panzer IV TT available atm. One is not in use (Panzer IV D). It Could be used for the Panzer III and changed to the required or desired stats.

This

[Diablo]

I feel like the Panzer III is one resilient son of a tank. Maybe it's just my subjective experience, but it seems to crit several times before actually dying. I feel like it should be one shotted more often.

PS: What happened to the Panzer IV D anyways? I kind of like the model.

[F31.58]

Why not make pz3 more protected from zook and piats then at guns because it has armor skirts? And buff ita reload speed to make it a pz 4 sidegrade in such a manner that it can better withstand zooks and switch targets faster? And buff pz 4 HE AOE slightly.

I disagree. PE basic units already have high damage against infantry, there is no need to buff it even further

[tarakancheg]

Why not make pz3 more protected from zook and piats then at guns because it has armor skirts? And buff ita reload speed to make it a pz 4 sidegrade in such a manner that it can better withstand zooks and switch targets faster? And buff pz 4 HE AOE slightly.

I disagree. PE basic units already have high damage against infantry, there is no need to buff it even further

What about WM though?

[F31.58]

Why not make pz3 more protected from zook and piats then at guns because it has armor skirts? And buff ita reload speed to make it a pz 4 sidegrade in such a manner that it can better withstand zooks and switch targets faster? And buff pz 4 HE AOE slightly.

I disagree. PE basic units already have high damage against infantry, there is no need to buff it even further

What about WM though?

eh, not sure. isn't like Pz4 identical to Sherman stats in terms of HE damage and reload speed?

[Warhawks97]

I disagree. PE basic units already have high damage against infantry, there is no need to buff it even further

What about WM though?

eh, not sure. isn't like Pz4 identical to Sherman stats in terms of HE damage and reload speed?

Not quite. I think the stubby has higher base accuracy =(0.75 vs 0.65 of the sherman) and i think even higher damage. AP pen is better on sherman. Reload speed is i think the same (6 seconds)

[Consti255]

Dont forget that allies have to pay 90ammo for a HE upgrade aswell