salvage ability for Sorched Earth

[Frost]

Greetings lads today another episode of Venezuela economics or Great depression depending on where you look at

So, as discussed here viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4579 It was stated that SE has a problem with ammo and fuel consumption because of higher pricing for everything while It was true that it was designed to decrease spam, notably when it comes to art and off-map abilities, and honestly, it is really excellent on paper, but the sad fact is that instead of being limited, it became debilitating at least in my experience and a lot of people seemed to agree on that.

while if we refer to the aforementioned link a lot of interesting suggestions were brought up to hopefully address the problems but i wanted to bring 1 ability which is honestly amazing ok lot of you might not know (or know but forgot) but actually Axis have special ability to salvage from wrecks for Wehr it's with pios and with PE it's with bregtiger but you see the problem is as always... that thing is bloody expensive....... so here's my suggestion

Make panzer grenadiers and assault pioneers able to salvage wrecks or you can make it only assault pioneers since we know their rule in the battlefield .

[Warhawks97]

Agreed. But only for SE doc. Generally i think stuff like salvage wrecks should be a doctrinal thing rather than factional and mainly SE and def doc should be able to use salvage ability for their units.

[Frost]

Agreed. But only for SE doc. Generally i think stuff like salvage wrecks should be a doctrinal thing rather than factional and mainly SE and def doc should be able to use salvage ability for their units.

I'm glad we agree on the Sorched Earth part, however I assume the goal of that ability is to compensate for their lack of supply yard improvements and HQ supplies.

[Warhawks97]

Agreed. But only for SE doc. Generally i think stuff like salvage wrecks should be a doctrinal thing rather than factional and mainly SE and def doc should be able to use salvage ability for their units.

I'm glad we agree on the Sorched Earth part, however I assume the goal of that ability is to compensate for their lack of supply yard improvements and HQ supplies.

not really. Supply yard doesnt boost your ammo economy. Originally in vcoh axis needed ammo for all their infantry weapons. US only for top mounted MG´s. Axis also needed ammo for all their bunkers. Hence they received this ability while US had all their infantry upgraded by a default with BAR later. AB could drop ammo and fuel for free via supply drop and CW could boost their trucks. It was simply kept as feature in BK. So it has no background actually.

And as mentioned many times, supply yard is a very long term investment and only in extremly long games it pays off. Salvage can be used right from the start at some maps where wrecks are laying arround as map feature.

So this is why i would keep salvage only for doctrines like SE doc and def doc. However SE doc would get more out it than def doc.

[Frost]

Agreed. But only for SE doc. Generally i think stuff like salvage wrecks should be a doctrinal thing rather than factional and mainly SE and def doc should be able to use salvage ability for their units.

I'm glad we agree on the Sorched Earth part, however I assume the goal of that ability is to compensate for their lack of supply yard improvements and HQ supplies.

not really. Supply yard doesnt boost your ammo economy. Originally in vcoh axis needed ammo for all their infantry weapons. US only for top mounted MG´s. Axis also needed ammo for all their bunkers. Hence they received this ability while US had all their infantry upgraded by a default with BAR later. AB could drop ammo and fuel for free via supply drop and CW could boost their trucks. It was simply kept as feature in BK. So it has no background actually.

And as mentioned many times, supply yard is a very long term investment and only in extremly long games it pays off. Salvage can be used right from the start at some maps where wrecks are laying arround as map feature.

So this is why i would keep salvage only for doctrines like SE doc and def doc. However SE doc would get more out it than def doc.

yeah i don't really see this feature ever being present in many games it is but a minor thing that can pay very well in long games when players throw tanks left and right which helped me in a lot of come backs i don't see why we should restrict it from axis your upkeep is already bad as it is

[Warhawks97]

I'm glad we agree on the Sorched Earth part, however I assume the goal of that ability is to compensate for their lack of supply yard improvements and HQ supplies.

not really. Supply yard doesnt boost your ammo economy. Originally in vcoh axis needed ammo for all their infantry weapons. US only for top mounted MG´s. Axis also needed ammo for all their bunkers. Hence they received this ability while US had all their infantry upgraded by a default with BAR later. AB could drop ammo and fuel for free via supply drop and CW could boost their trucks. It was simply kept as feature in BK. So it has no background actually.

And as mentioned many times, supply yard is a very long term investment and only in extremly long games it pays off. Salvage can be used right from the start at some maps where wrecks are laying arround as map feature.

So this is why i would keep salvage only for doctrines like SE doc and def doc. However SE doc would get more out it than def doc.

yeah i don't really see this feature ever being present in many games it is but a minor thing that can pay very well in long games when players throw tanks left and right which helped me in a lot of come backs i don't see why we should restrict it from axis your upkeep is already bad as it is

The upkeep or that it is so bad is a myth. WH upkeep is pretty low, esspecially fuel wise. So in terms of upkeep the first 20-30 mins there is no unusual upkeep suffering for axis. Its pretty good actually.

What i meant is that we make salvage to be doctrinal and mainly for SE doc. In return the salvage would give each time+10 instead of +5 to help out with the ammo issues.

[Walderschmidt]

+1 - add it to SE

[MarKr]

*laughs in Bergetiger*

But seriously now - I thought we added those extra abilities to Bergetiger in SE so that it has more utility and people would build it for other purposes than to just scavange resources. I understand that giving some infantry the ability to do it would be more convenient but won't that take away the main purpose of Bergetiger?

[Warhawks97]

*laughs in Bergetiger*

But seriously now - I thought we added those extra abilities to Bergetiger in SE so that it has more utility and people would build it for other purposes than to just scavange resources. I understand that giving some infantry the ability to do it would be more convenient but won't that take away the main purpose of Bergetiger?

Well, i would move the bergtiger to TS doc with a good repair speed of tanks. Similiar to US rep engineers that can only rep tanks and vehicles.

Building a tank to scavage ressources is not really all that practical. Mostly this ability by WH pios is used when passing by a wreckage. So its a "go by ability".

I saw people using cheap Bergetiger to crush all hedgerows in order to get a plain field for their long range weapons and to trigger AT guns. So basically as damage sponage and "battlefield obstacle clearing machine". The second reason is repairs but i never saw anyone going for it just for salvaging.

As said, i would make this ability doctrinal for SE and def doc and SE getting out 10 ammo each time. Bergetiger simply put into TS doc as special tank/vehicle repair unit.

[MarKr]

The ability is there but people will rather complain that SE doesn't have ammo and try to come up with a way to give them ammo or some ways to save ammo, rather than use an ability that's already available...

[Redgaarden]

AS Markr said. You already have ability that gives ammo. And if you need fuel you already have mp only tanks. I dont really see a reason to give salvage to PG.

[Frost]

The ability is there but people will rather complain that SE doesn't have ammo and try to come up with a way to give them ammo or some ways to save ammo, rather than use an ability that's already available...

bregtiger expensive, you already paying too much for everything 450 for nebel .... 800 for hummel ..... 380 or 300+ for each infantry and mg my god on top of that you have to manually scavenge everything cause you cannot queue way too much for 450 and god knows how much fuel.

[MarKr]

Do you want the ammo and fuel from wreck or not?

Edit:
I think we already said that we can lower some unit costs but try to stay down to earth. We won't be giving a significant cost drops to 5+ units in SE in a single update.

[Frost]

Alright that is Fair.

[Walderschmidt]

*laughs in Bergetiger*

But seriously now - I thought we added those extra abilities to Bergetiger in SE so that it has more utility and people would build it for other purposes than to just scavange resources. I understand that giving some infantry the ability to do it would be more convenient but won't that take away the main purpose of Bergetiger?

Possibly, but I don't even use the Bergetiger now.

It's a really expensive unit if you get it to just scavenge muni. Would be cool if it had an improved muni scavenge ability, though.

Wald

[Walderschmidt]

Do you want the ammo and fuel from wreck or not?

Edit:
I think we already said that we can lower some unit costs but try to stay down to earth. We won't be giving a significant cost drops to 5+ units in SE in a single update.

The Bergetiger gets ammo and fuel from wrecks?

Wald

[MarKr]

Possibly, but I don't even use the Bergetiger now.

It's a really expensive unit if you get it to just scavenge muni. Would be cool if it had an improved muni scavenge ability, though.

Why not go with a cost drop then? Bergetieger is a unique unit for PE because it is the only unit that can scavenge wrecks. If any other unit gets the ability, there will be literally no reason to ever get Bergetieger and there is very little reason to get it as it is.

Improved resource scavenge is unfortunatelly not possible.

The Bergetiger gets ammo and fuel from wrecks?

Yes, any unit with the ability gets ammo and fuel. Or more like...every vehicle has set what sort of resource(s) can be scavenged from it. I think all vehicles give ammo and fuel but I haven't checked so I am not 100% sure, maybe some are set differently.

[Warhawks97]

when i salvage with pios it only gives ammo.

And its damn weird to build a bergetiger just for scavanging. I mean this thing is supposed to repair vehicles in the field and under fire. God damn, units in bk get twisted and put into roles never supposed to do. For me, scavaging should be a infantry thing and not for a recovery vehicle.

[Frost]

""recovery"" lol