Flank speed

[kwok]

This is a personal request. Can we think about getting rid of the ridiculous ability "flank speed"? It honestly breaks the hell out of my immersion. This is totally a personal thing but seeing tanks go from 0 speed to fucking road runner and doing ballet dances around the map makes me feel like i'm playing starcraft, let alone a falsely alleged "historical realism mod" (WHICH FOR THE RECORD IT IS NOT).

I say get rid of that ridiculous ability and give every unit that had it a price reduction for compensation. Otherwise some other form of change. Just list them all out below.

EDIT:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExlR7o0 ... ACTIVATION
I swear to god the tanks in this video seem more realistic than BK flank speed tanks. Because at least in this video the tanks look like they have weight with their drifting, scraping sparks, and camera shake. Whereas a flying cromwell or 222 armored car in BK look lighter than the anime girls driving the tanks in this video.

[Warhawks97]

Haha, did you have a talk with Mencius? I recently talked about this with him in discord and shared some funny moments with instant turn arrounds of 222 vehicle. The only reason i use the 222 over the 250 is because it has flank speed. Yeah, this ability is extremely abusive. I say get rid.

I would compensate in cost a bit or change base acceleration stats of these units a bit.


Flank speed is a in my opinion just a trolling ability rather than anything else.

[Walderschmidt]

Yeah, I’d say get rid of it.

Wald

[Krieger Blitzer]

Depends on how the removal of the ability gets compensated for each unit.

[Frost]

honestly idk cromwell without flank speed is not really worth it, AC the same and similar to the units it has i feel like it's unfair to players who have good micromanagement Hell have you tried to use cromwell with HE against infantry? it misses so much you just don't know if it's working or not so the only use for it is hunting ACs and scout cars and 75mm etc... , and don't forget it's not free and you have to maintain the thing which takes from your ammo so yeah i'm against that

[Consti255]

Cromwells are even great without it,
But in exchange, when we get rid if it, the HE could get a little bit more accurate + some cost reduction or coaxial buff for it idk

[Consti255]

Bump.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Units that currently have flank speed:

- CW;
Comet
Cromwell
Achilles

- WH;
none?

- PE;
Sdkfz 222, armored 20mm car

- US;
Jackson after engine upgrade (Armor doc)
M10 Wolverine

If any vehicles i missed, plz mention.
Note: flank speed costs ammo & consumes +5 fuel upkeep while the ability is active per vehicle.

Opinion:
Ability is currently limited & available only to few particular units, none of the vehicles mentioned abose is over-performing with the ability.. in fact, most of them would be useless without. Not to mention that tweaking basic speed values in return of removing the ability could either lead that these vehicles would become super fast permenantly (with nearly permenant flank speed which is OP) or that they would become much slower than they should & therefore useless.

Accordingly, i am against removing the ability for the units that currently have it.. since that the results seem really vague.

[Warhawks97]

Opinion:
Ability is currently limited & available only to few particular units, none of the vehicles mentioned abose is over-performing with the ability.. in fact, most of them would be useless without. Not to mention that tweaking basic speed values in return of removing the ability could either lead that these vehicles would become super fast permenantly (with nearly permenant flank speed which is OP) or that they would become much slower than they should & therefore useless.

Accordingly, i am against removing the ability for the units that currently have it.. since that the results seem really vague.

Well, i guess you havent played vs Dondreon then. I trolled everyone and everytime. Pak? Dont worry, flank speed and pass by with cromwell.
20 mm Car? Get two of them and i tell you there is nothing you can do. One pak Puma, 2x 20 mm and a krad... thats all you need, esspecially TS doc.

M10 is not OP because the turret is ultra slow and often time flank speed messes up the aiming here. Just increase base acceleration to that what jackson has right now. M10 and Hellcat are among the slowest accelerators which is funny since speed is all they have to survive.

[Krieger Blitzer]

M5 Stuart counters 222 armored car.. so is early Cromwell.
Spending res on 2x 222 is very risky as PE if u lose them to AT or early tank.

Also, how is removing the flank speed from all units completely solve the problem?
If a unit feels too fast with the ability atm, we can shorten the ability active duration & increase cool-down.
However, i can't see why Flank Speed should be ultimately gone from the game.

[Consti255]

We are not speaking about early game in particular ?

The 222s are in my opinion OP due to this ability, paired with TS off-map.
if you have vision, noting is stopping those guys of shredding infantry or working as mobile emplacement clearing machines with the offmap.
If you have a 75mm puma behin, you simply doesnt fear annything.

I absolutely dont see why a M5 counters them?!
just because he would win a 1v1 between those units, noone ever will send a 222 against a stuart ? And its not like PE has super cheap 28mm cars to get rid of the stuart. lul

You throw in a bunch of counters of a unit, but doesnt take the whole unit comp into account.

I dont get the general ability in particular. The Hellcat is the best example, this ability isnt necessary and is just a no brainer in unit balance, player mistakes and on top immersion.

[Warhawks97]

M5 Stuart counters 222 armored car.. so is early Cromwell.
Spending res on 2x 222 is very risky as PE if u lose them to AT or early tank.

Oh come on. Some even use the HT version which is a lot more vulnerable. Pumas survive as well and so do scout cars. I mean ofc, if you run into an AT or tank you deserve to lose it. Thats what consti meant when i said that flank speed can literally "un-do" mistakes.

Also, how is removing the flank speed from all units completely solve the problem?
If a unit feels too fast with the ability atm, we can shorten the ability active duration & increase cool-down.
However, i can't see why Flank Speed should be ultimately gone from the game.

Because why do we need them in the first place? We dont need fancy dancy cars. Every other unit is doint well without: Puma, Hellcat (which could use a better base acceleration), Crusader AA tank, Greyhound etc etc etc. There is no obvious reason why these particular units need to race arround.

Cooldown changes etc would not solve anything. Simply adjust base acceleration and get this ability gone for good.

[Krieger Blitzer]

We are not speaking about early game in particular ?

Apparently Hawks is.

I dont get the general ability in particular. The Hellcat is the best example, this ability isnt necessary and is just a no brainer in unit balance, player mistakes and on top immersion.

Wolverine, M36 Jackson (Armor doc) & Achilles will be a super easy target to Shreck rush without Flank Speed.. and buffing basic acceleration, makes it permanently harder to catch these tanks with inf.

Cromwell will be nearly useless, and again.. buffing basic values will make it "permenantly" hard to catch.
Comet won't be able to flank anything without flank speed, or will become "permenantly" reversing in a super sonic speed with better basic speed values.

Also btw, the 222 has very weak armor compared to other 20mm vehicles (dies 3x times faster to 50.cal compared to Puma) so even Recce tears it apart.

Hellcat has 8 max speed value.. the fastest tank in the game, so clearly no suprise that it doesn't need flank speed.. but the Hellcat can die to 20mm cannons. Whereas if other tanks such as Comet or Cromwell would ever get better speed values as compensation for flank speed removal.. they would be clearly OP, because these don't die to 20mm cannons.

So, would u rather a temproarily fast Cromwell/222 car, or a permenantly fast Cromwell/222 car?
And if u say "no, not permenantly cause flank speed removal won't be compensated with such speed values" then i assure u the tanks mentioned above won't be able to escape inf rush at all.

[Warhawks97]

Apparently Hawks is.

Not at all.

Wolverine, M36 Jackson (Armor doc) & Achilles will be a super easy target to Shreck rush without Flank Speed.. and buffing basic acceleration, makes it permanently harder to catch these tanks with inf.

Jacks used to be like that. Now it has 2.3 base acceleration which is working. Hellcats and M10 have 1.5. For some reason player manage to get out of harms way with hellcat even without flank speed, so why wouldnt they when their base acceleration is upped and flank speed gone from M10?

So, when M18 is no better in acceleration and used successfully anyways, why would you say that 10 cant?

Cromwell will be nearly useless, and again.. buffing basic values will make it "permenantly" hard to catch.
Comet won't be able to flank anything without flank speed, or will become "permenantly" reversing in a super sonic speed with better basic speed values.

ever heared of middle ground? Cromwell has 3 base acceleration and 6 max speed. It outruns any tank except hellcat. Comet has 2.2 which can be easily upped to 3 as well, no prob here. Cromwell HE will be the same as that of a sherman and all is fine without flank speed.

Also btw, the 222 has very weak armor compared to other 20mm vehicles (dies 3x times faster to 50.cal compared to Puma) so even Recce tears it apart.

So does scout car, 28 mm, HTs..... and M20 dies quickly to 20 mm and is working without flank speed. I do play the 20 mm car quite often without using any flank speed at all.

Hellcat has 8 max speed value.. the fastest tank in the game, so clearly no suprise that it doesn't need flank speed.. but the Hellcat can die to 20mm cannons. Whereas if other tanks such as Comet or Cromwell would ever get better speed values as compensation for flank speed removal.. they would be clearly OP, because these don't die to 20mm cannons.

still its acceleration is only 1.5....

So, would u rather a temproarily fast Cromwell/222 car, or a permenantly fast Cromwell/222 car?
And if u say "no, not permenantly cause flank speed removal won't be compensated with such speed values" then i assure u the tanks mentioned above won't be able to escape inf rush at all.

Cromwell has 6 speed just as comet. I wouldnt mind upping it to 7. If you know how to use other tanks and vehicles which are just as squishy, you will do well with those as well even without flank speed.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I don't care that much if Flank Speed stays or gets removed.. although personally i don't think a removal is necessary.

That's why the first response i posted on this topic was:

Depends on how the removal of the ability gets compensated for each unit.

So, it depends on how vehicles basic speed values would be compensated as a result.
if it's fair enough & in the middle ground, i won't object or say nothing...
However; if it ends to be extreme either ways, then i won't hesitate to call it out.

[tarakancheg]

Why not just nerf accuracy on the move while the flank speed is active? This will solve the problem of 222 running away while killing half a squad, and TH will require some skill in timing your stopping for a shot. Other problem with 222 is a drive-by mortar call in, and I don't know if we have to do anything with it if we nerf the falnk speed.

[Warhawks97]

Why not just nerf accuracy on the move while the flank speed is active? This will solve the problem of 222 running away while killing half a squad, and TH will require some skill in timing your stopping for a shot. Other problem with 222 is a drive-by mortar call in, and I don't know if we have to do anything with it if we nerf the falnk speed.

still, you can either rush an AT gun by purpose and take a shot but then being easily behind them or you can run into an AT gun, get hit, activate flank speed and rush away at lightning speed backwards. The 222 even makes a full 180 degree turn in a blink of an eye like in a stupid cartoon move. Flank speed is used mostly in stop and go movment. Stay a second from a good position and rush extremely quickly to the next position. I even managed with an 222 to rush into an AT squad and get away at the same time before they could even fire the missile.


So i would rather have slight acceleration boosts as compensation and get these cartoonish abilities removed.

[Consti255]

Why not just nerf accuracy on the move while the flank speed is active? This will solve the problem of 222 running away while killing half a squad, and TH will require some skill in timing your stopping for a shot. Other problem with 222 is a drive-by mortar call in, and I don't know if we have to do anything with it if we nerf the falnk speed.

its also a time rewind button, which makes you undo a mistake you made seconds before and simply rewind it with driving away.

Aswell, every less micor you need to make in this game for "nearly" the same results is a buff.
Ill take passive stats over short active stats from abilitys anyday.

[idliketoplaybetter]

It is fun and tricky ability imo. The only unit u see often using it is Cromwell.

Rest is situational and barely used unless some.

Arcadish but there has to be something like that imo. Just for the human factor RNG playing.
This is exactly the thing that sometimes intensifies games, exactly by the ability to flank AT out of nowhere and so on.
Not everything must be done by the book with smokes and "typical flanking" operations.

And just to make it clear, I used to play mostly US and WM, so I am not even defending my own preference here.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Agreed, the only reasoning i see here is "it looks cartoonish" but then most abilities in the game could be considered cartoonish if we recognize it from a pure realism approach... The ability is balanced from a gameplay point of view & limited to few units that really need it. So, i still find this removal request absolutely uncalled for.

[Warhawks97]

"balanced". I think you really haven't played against someone really exploiting and abusing it. Rushing into tank guns an out before those get a chance to fite even

"needed"?
As said I play m10 and the 20 mm often enough without it and they are working

[Krieger Blitzer]

Tell me, what will be the difference between Cromwell & CW 75 Sherman after removal of Flank Speed?
& How are Comets going to fight Panthers & Tigers??

"Give them much better basic speed values" wouldn't be an appropriate solution either because that could make them OP actually.

A mild acceleration boost or whatever won't make them any unique either.

[Consti255]

Idk, the 75mm sherman can get Tulips or a way stronger HE mode, the cromwell is faster on the other hand ? I think its a big difference. The role stay the same, one is a flanking tank, the other one a multipurpose tank.
They are as differnt as a medium can be to be honest.

[Krieger Blitzer]

in my opinion, Cromwell without Flank Speed is like bird without wings... The role of both Comet & Cromwell would be hurt significantly.

[kwok]

in my opinion, Cromwell without Flank Speed is like bird without wings... The role of both Comet & Cromwell would be hurt significantly.

kiwi birds are pretty cool though. they dont have wings.