Tank Vision Poll

[kwok]

Refer to thead viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4552 for arguments. Feel free to continue discussing more specifically here.

[Warhawks97]

I would nerf sight range and gun range (or the range at which a tank an acquire a target and aim at it). Tank warefare of ww2 was essentially a stop and go fight. While moving it was very difficult to even keep track of whats arround you.

The sight range while standing still would be lower only by a bit. Perhaps.

Tank gunner upgrades and TC would add some right range back since they stuck their heads out. Top mounted Gunners would then become an upgrade for ALL Tanks and for 75 ammo minimum.



To compensate all that the tanks would not need to upgrade ammo types via purchase and can shoot further while standing still. Minimum Tank gun targeting and firing ranges would be 70 or 75 while it would be as low as 40-50 range while moving.

[Walderschmidt]

I’d say that tank vision while moving should be nerfed and tank vision while stationary should be tweaked a little bit.

Tank commanders would unchanged (they’d give whatever bonus that would make tanks the total vision they have now).

Wald

[Redgaarden]

Tank gunner upgrades and TC would add some right range back since they stuck their heads out. Top mounted Gunners would then become an upgrade for ALL Tanks and for 75 ammo minimum.

Even reward KT?. And who in their right mind would put a 75muni top mg on a hellcat? This clearly favours big tanks instead of a lot of small ones. And TC sticking their head out is only visual. You can't actually shoot their tops off. So are you suggesting buffing TC range? or letting them stay as is?

Minimum Tank gun targeting and firing ranges would be 70 or 75 while it would be as low as 40-50 range while moving.

So just fuck E8 and hellcats?

[Warhawks97]

Even reward KT?. And who in their right mind would put a 75muni top mg on a hellcat? This clearly favours big tanks instead of a lot of small ones. And TC sticking their head out is only visual. You can't actually shoot their tops off. So are you suggesting buffing TC range? or letting them stay as is?

TC would add some sight range back so that they have the sight range of what they have currently by default.


And why would it fuck up small once? Ammo types wouldnt be purchasable anymore. Tanks have basic AP and HE rounds while special AP is given via some doctrinal unlocks in certain docs. So you spare up to 90 ammo per tank in ammo cost alone. Right now tanks cant do shit vs inf unless you invested lots of ammo into them for HE and cal 50 gunners. This way an MG on top becomes an option to protect the tanks better vs inf, esspecially flanking infantry. But that comes at a cost. Every in squad pays 75 ammo for an MG in their squad. So why not for tanks?

If you buy lots of medium tanks you may only pay 75 ammo for one tank having a top mount that adds vision and anti inf protection to your tank formation. All others can fight infantry right as they come from the factory since HE rounds wouldnt require a purchase anymore. So i dont see how it only benefits heavy tanks.

So just fuck E8 and hellcats?

why fuck them? Due to the reduced gun range? Tanks like these would maintain a higher gun range, vision and accuracy while moving. So they can afterall keep track on an enemie target while moving.

[Consti255]

I like the change to HE, AP and Top mounted guns.
But what to do with perma HE shermans? Free HE for them would be way too good.

[Redgaarden]

So just fuck E8 and hellcats?

why fuck them? Due to the reduced gun range? Tanks like these would maintain a higher gun range, vision and accuracy while moving. So they can afterall keep track on an enemie target while moving.

Same reason why boosting the range of all weapons is better for long range than close range weapons. It will just be less viable for shooting on moving tanks to use their ability. And it will fuck up the auto targeting system so if you want to attack an enemy tank you have to tell it to stop manually. Otherwise when you right click an enemy tank they will drive too close to the tank before they fire.
And now the defending tank will always get first shot in because the attacking tank has to wait until they get their range back.

TC would add some sight range back so that they have the sight range of what they have currently by default.

So like a current tank without TC

And why would it fuck up small once? Ammo types wouldnt be purchasable anymore. Tanks have basic AP and HE rounds while special AP is given via some doctrinal unlocks in certain docs. So you spare up to 90 ammo per tank in ammo cost alone. Right now tanks cant do shit vs inf unless you invested lots of ammo into them for HE and cal 50 gunners. This way an MG on top becomes an option to protect the tanks better vs inf, esspecially flanking infantry. But that comes at a cost. Every in squad pays 75 ammo for an MG in their squad. So why not for tanks?

So Armor Doctrine free ammo upgrade becomes HVAP rounds instead? And do we really need every tank to be able to kill infantry? isn't it bad enough with HE tanks?
I actually have no idea what you are suggesting. Do you want to remove AP rounds to give every tank HE? How many tanks will get MG upgrade? all even F2? will US still need to tech up 50 cal to use upgrades? Do brits even have any top mgs?

[Warhawks97]

Same reason why boosting the range of all weapons is better for long range than close range weapons. It will just be less viable for shooting on moving tanks to use their ability. And it will fuck up the auto targeting system so if you want to attack an enemy tank you have to tell it to stop manually. Otherwise when you right click an enemy tank they will drive too close to the tank before they fire.
And now the defending tank will always get first shot in because the attacking tank has to wait until they get their range back.

Its already the case more or less. I always have to tell the tank to stop manually since tank drivers tend to feel the need to ram the enemie tank going full charge towards them unless you tell them to stop. So manually stop and go is something i am more than used to.
Also currently when attacking a tank my first shot fails because the gunner fires before the tank fully stopped. From my experience in EaW its a plessure that tanks have less range while moving. This way they dont waste a shot at max range under full speed. They only fire when there is a realistic chance to hit the target.

So Armor Doctrine free ammo upgrade becomes HVAP rounds instead? And do we really need every tank to be able to kill infantry? isn't it bad enough with HE tanks?
I actually have no idea what you are suggesting. Do you want to remove AP rounds to give every tank HE? How many tanks will get MG upgrade? all even F2? will US still need to tech up 50 cal to use upgrades? Do brits even have any top mgs?

Yeah, special AP is given via doctrines. Doctrines with focus on tank and anti tank warfare would get these rounds (and perhaps certain units just like AT guns). Tank focused doctrines would be less focused on just either spamming stupidly many tanks or crazy powerfull tanks. But rather on special tanks and special abilties other doctrines cant use for their tanks. I mean there are lots of CP unlocks that barely have any impact on the game. Like idk, MP40 for volkssturm after 2 CP so that you can purchase 2x MP40 for each volkssturm squad. Meanwhile APCT/HVAP rounds have a huge impact on the outcome of a battle and the only thing required is to have enough ammo. After that you can spam these rounds all the time making tanks really effective against tanks they should struggle against.


And isnt every tank a inf killer already (except you run low on ammo). As long as there is ammo, tanks smash infantry. Its been part of many debates here, in game and discord. If you followed my topics in this regard, i suggested to rather increase fuel cost on tanks and in return ammo doesnt need to be purchased anymore and is either available by default or by doctrinal unlocks.

[Consti255]

maybe make a difference between open top TDs and closed tanks when it comes to vision?
So M10s, Achillies and Hellcats are still able to make those maneuvers (without flanks speed @Kwok ).While Axis TD are way more defensive like and get vision increase while planning an ambush?

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think gun range shouldn't be touched, but sight range can be lower though (Tank Commanders untouched).

[Red]

In my opinion it would be good if standing still sight range (with upgrades, possibly excluding tank commander) would be below gun range. That would mean, that standing still there still was the possibility to get fired at by an unseen opponent (with tank + recon).
If gun range was equal to standing still sight range, it would be too dominant a strategy not to move, if you knew an enemy tank was nearby, as there was very little risk (airstrike, arty) standing still. This could then result in very passive gameplay.