grease guns, thompsons, and other SMG's

[kwok]

I'm going to post this since I can't find anyone else posting a specific topic on this.

What do you all think of these weapons performance at long range? I'm hearing a LOT of complaining about how these SMG's and their current values are massacre'ing at every range. I heard someone saying that a player just went armor JUST for combat engineers and won without many tanks at all.

What's up with them? How should they be?

If they are overperforming, an idea the dev team had was to just lower their range to make their role extremely clear. They shouldn't be good at long range. But if we just tweaked their performance at long range, it could hurt their performance short range because the units that typically use smgs (assault units) will end up wasting their shots long range and suffer short range.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I don’t think that they are overperforming, especially in the long range.

[Warhawks97]

I'm going to post this since I can't find anyone else posting a specific topic on this.

What do you all think of these weapons performance at long range? I'm hearing a LOT of complaining about how these SMG's and their current values are massacre'ing at every range. I heard someone saying that a player just went armor JUST for combat engineers and won without many tanks at all.

What's up with them? How should they be?

I choose Grease Guns over BAR because it feels like it makes them better at any range compared to BAR (which i still think actually lowers their damage output).
Other than that they dont beat LMG34/42 or M1919 at range.

If they are overperforming, an idea the dev team had was to just lower their range to make their role extremely clear. They shouldn't be good at long range. But if we just tweaked their performance at long range, it could hurt their performance short range because the units that typically use smgs (assault units) will end up wasting their shots long range and suffer short range.

Interesting, i was thinking about it lately but didnt make a topic about it because i thought you devs would skip that topic anyways since it was made by me. Perhaps its better you bring this idea up instead of me. This way it doesnt get rejected. (*Oh shit, now that they see i am thinking the same they might skip this anyways*)

But yeah, i wouldnt mind when smgs would in general fire at distances of about 45 range or so. Perhaps there can be slight differences between the models. STG however should not receive any changes. Its not a pure SMG and a good multirole weapon. Perhaps it would then make sense then to put ammo into the urban assault squad to get full STG loadout.

[Diablo]

StG should have a massively reduced fire rate at long range, I'm talking quick semi-auto. But in exchange raise it's accuracy at long range to almost G43 levels. Ultimate immersion booster

Agree with reducing range on SMGs, fine tuning is necessary though. Ideally we'll not end up with to many situations where the SMG wielding squad is just a target. But this full auto peashooting in the general direction of a rifle range enemy is unpleasant and reveals your squad early (not only in stealth but also when just out of view of enemies on the move).

[Warhawks97]

StG should have a massively reduced fire rate at long range, I'm talking quick semi-auto. But in exchange raise it's accuracy at long range to almost G43 levels. Ultimate immersion booster

doesnt work. Rate of fire for weapons is set to to their realistic values. And there is also no modifier with which we can change the rof depending on the distant to target. Same is true for the burst duration. It cant be changed.

The only thing that can be changed depending on the distant to target is the cooldown length between the burst. But any change of rate of fire or burst duration will change the performance at close range as well.

Agree with reducing range on SMGs, fine tuning is necessary though. Ideally we'll not end up with to many situations where the SMG wielding squad is just a target. But this full auto peashooting in the general direction of a rifle range enemy is unpleasant and reveals your squad early (not only in stealth but also when just out of view of enemies on the move).

an aspect i didnt even think about. Nice thoughts.

[Consti255]

I think a range nerf to smg's will hurt US damn hard in particular.
They shine with Thompsons, but every other weapon loadout is in my eyes less effective than the axis counter parts.
So sure the Thompson will still be the best SMG in the game, but getting into close combat will cost casualties and they start later to compensate the push damage. Less damage to enemies means more damage to you.

I am not against a SMG range nerf, but it should also inflict other weapon tweaks especially for US or other docs with CQC intended sqauds.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think SMGs are fine now.

[kwok]

If someone has the time, can they do a x10 test on combat engineers vs volksgrenadiers at long range? Curious to see how that will look.
No vet, no CP unlock.
Then maybe again x10 test but with CP unlock no vet.

[Consti255]

Thompsons or M3s for the Combat engis?

[kwok]

Both ideally. The topic is meant for smgs in general.

[Redgaarden]

I think grease guns had something like 1.8 long range dps or something. Which should be lower than pioneer long range. So I dont think they should be nerfed.
But it's true that smgs are better than expected at long range. Which I'm not too much against since having long range units it kinda the meta.

My concern would be in extreme situations where they wont even be able to fire before a smg squad dies. But I dont see any way to cheese this so it's a very minor concern.