Weapon Packages instead of single weapon upgrades.

[Krieger Blitzer]

i am against bundle upgrades, shortly for 2 reasons:

- Once you get a full bundle, this probably means u won't be able to pick anything else from the ground as the loadout would be full right away.. whereas you if u get half of the bundle, you can still either decide to purchase it for the 2nd time or maybe pick something useful from the ground.

- inf units will either be left out with default weapons or completely armed to teeth, and nothing in the middle anymore.. not to mention the "bundles" will be more expensive since they are 1 time package.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

If it is implemented, how the weapon pick up will work? The only problem I see that squads with a package won’t be able to pick up enemy weapons. Man, it’s such a pleasure to pick up MG42 with Enfield commando or Stg44 with Rangers that it should never go.

Actually, I recalled that I wanted to ask if it’s possible to make it so that when the last member of the squad dies in drops more than one weapon. E.g. when the squad of storms gets whipped they would leave 2 StG 44, or Tommys leave 2 brens.

[Consti255]

I would love to see some Devs reacting to the general idea. I think its brilliant.

In general I am not against making "bundles" such as replacing an upgrade that gives 3 SMGs and can get it twice for 1 upgrade that gives 6 SMGs right away. If you give them one SMG upgrade, you will give them the 2nd anyway because rifles + SMGs loadouts are impractical, as I wrote above.

It is also true that mixing several weapon upgrades on one squad often leads to glitches with the weapon loadouts (don't get the weapon back after reinforcing etc.) and making it "1 bundle per squad" would help with this too.

I am against giving extra abilities with bundles, especially when some in the first post are obviously there just to give extra stuff to squads that they intentionally don't have or are locked behind something else e.g. camo/crawl.

Giving suppressive fire/button vehicle abilities with LMGs is fine but not both at the same time.

I am super-mega-most against bundles of 2 schrecks for any squad because schrecks are deadly even when there is just one and also because the schreck upgrade is there to give to the squads some protection against vehicles and tanks, not to turn them in tank hunters. Every faction has a dedicated AT squad in barracks, use them for this.
Double zookas could be possible on squads that currently can get them but wouldn't want to see them for Rangers.

I am just as super-mega-most against 6x scoped G43 bundles and pretty much the same way against double LMGs bundles - each would shoot the squad's dps through the roof.

Its the same for me in general with a few exceptions. I think double MGs on a small unit roster are okay, like the SS (its possible now aswell).
I also mentioned that 6x G43 or even scoped once is a no go, because it would make units to absolute powerhouses in the early fights + in the later stages on longer ranges. I can already see the first Panzergren unit you spawn with beeing vet 5.

- inf units will either be left out with default weapons or completely armed to teeth, and nothing in the middle anymore.. not to mention the "bundles" will be more expensive since they are 1 time package.

well yeah but a little example with heavy grens. do you think that buying a STG upgrade for 50 ammo would make them win against other CQB sqauds or loudouts ? I think not. Its also hard to tell for enemys how much they are upgraded, because you never gonna zoom in on enemy sqauds while microing. You would know exactly their loudout and you know how to react.
Also as Markr said, the Days with glitched out MG34 on volks are finally over with that change.

The only problem is, what you guys poointed out, what to do with droped weapons?
Would it be possible when a bundle is purchased for example to swap out a bundle weapon for the picked up one? So for example a shrek upgrade for Fallschirms give you 1 shrek and 5 MPs for example and when you pick up a MG from the ground its gonna replace one of the MP40s ?
Same for 6 STGs... and so on ?

See it like the Bundles change the unit armament, but the weapons dont cost slots ?

[Warhawks97]

Well, yeah, there are issues that need to be solved first. We can scrap 6x G43. I said G43 is pretty much compatible with normal Rifles since both are most effective while standing still behind come cover. So not every Package would remove all weapon slots right away.

Double schreck idea being scrapped is also OK to me. Will see how it works out. But to be honest i would leave them to dedicated AT squads or Elite inf only anways.

Picking up weapons is for me only something when i play allied picking up some german weapons. But usually i dont pick up allied weapons as axis except picking up a Thompson maybe with my Pios.


The cost have ups and downs. When i want a full STG squad, i would need 150 ammo currently. I Package would cost arround 100 for 6 of them. So you are forced to pay more right away, but in total you would spare some MP.


Perhaps we can pick a few units and upgrades that should come as a bundle. Like RL for 101st should in my opinion add 3 of them right away. Garand upgrade for 82nd should be so that there is no one left at the end standing there with a thompson.

BARs and Brens should come in pairs. There is a lot of Brainstorming still ahead i think.

[kwok]

I would love to see some Devs reacting to the general idea. I think its brilliant.

I also like the idea for the same reasons as MarKr. It simplifies a lot of balancing and potentially bugs. But, what sukin and tiger say is true...

i am against bundle upgrades, shortly for 2 reasons:

- Once you get a full bundle, this probably means u won't be able to pick anything else from the ground as the loadout would be full right away.. whereas you if u get half of the bundle, you can still either decide to purchase it for the 2nd time or maybe pick something useful from the ground.

- inf units will either be left out with default weapons or completely armed to teeth, and nothing in the middle anymore.. not to mention the "bundles" will be more expensive since they are 1 time package.

If it is implemented, how the weapon pick up will work? The only problem I see that squads with a package won’t be able to pick up enemy weapons. Man, it’s such a pleasure to pick up MG42 with Enfield commando or Stg44 with Rangers that it should never go.

Actually, I recalled that I wanted to ask if it’s possible to make it so that when the last member of the squad dies in drops more than one weapon. E.g. when the squad of storms gets whipped they would leave 2 StG 44, or Tommys leave 2 brens.

This is a LOOOT of effort, almost like a rehaul of how slot item weapons operate within the mod. Is this really the next step for the mod among other things?

[Consti255]

The only problem is, what you guys poointed out, what to do with droped weapons?
Would it be possible when a bundle is purchased for example to swap out a bundle weapon for the picked up one? So for example a shrek upgrade for Fallschirms give you 1 shrek and 5 MPs for example and when you pick up a MG from the ground its gonna replace one of the MP40s ?
Same for 6 STGs... and so on ?

See it like the Bundles change the unit armament, but the weapons dont cost slots ?

@ Devs ?

[Walderschmidt]

I like and dislike the idea and will give two examples of the same squad to illustrate my point: the humble Volksgrenadiers

1. I like the non-bundled weapon upgrades because sometimes ir makes sense to upgrade them with 2x MP40s and an LMG. Losing two rifles doesn’t hurt their long range DPS that much (still better than all rifles and no LMG) but the 2x MP40s help make it risky for CQB squads to close the distance and give this squad a slight edge against rifle only squads in CQB.

2. I dislike non-bundles upgrades because when I upgrade the volks squad with 2 x MP40 packages - it only gets 4 x MP40s. Which makes it a gimped CQB squad that does CQB poorly and long distance abysmally. The big reason why the Blitz Pios are so devastating is because they have six SMGs all shooting at once. You can’t get that with defense pios until you have CP, can’t get that with combat engies until after motorpool, and or CQB storms until after CP, to name a few. I mean, even the riflemen only get a max of 4x grease guns but even they are better in CQB with the Garand rifles that shoot a little faster up close.

So I’d prefer weapons packages where it’d make sense in the second scenario, but not as a rule.

Wald

[Warhawks97]

I like and dislike the idea and will give two examples of the same squad to illustrate my point: the humble Volksgrenadiers

1. I like the non-bundled weapon upgrades because sometimes ir makes sense to upgrade them with 2x MP40s and an LMG. Losing two rifles doesn’t hurt their long range DPS that much (still better than all rifles and no LMG) but the 2x MP40s help make it risky for CQB squads to close the distance and give this squad a slight edge against rifle only squads in CQB.

I would be down for leaders to utilize different weapons. A few examples exist like Stormtrooper leader or Reg 5 leader carrying STGs or FG42.

In vanilla as well as other games and mods i saw leaders carrying different weapons than the others. Volks leader would maybe start with an MP40 or STG, Rifle leader with a Carabine or grease gun and so on. That way the leader would already provide some short range protection all the time.

Gren leader could carry an G43 for example, heavy assault gren leader and STG, Ranger leader a Thompson. I think that would work out pretty well.

[Walderschmidt]

^I actually like this idea a lot. Part of why I like the base storm trooper rifle squad a lot.

Wald

[Diablo]

I dont get why Riflemen amd Volksgrenadiers cannot get fully equipped with SMGs.