Inf Doctrine 76mm Jumbo - Increase Limit to 2

[Walderschmidt]

I think the 76mm Jumbo should have its limit increased to 2. It is now more useful against Tigers and presumably Panthers with it's HEAT shot - but ultimately they will always be outnumbered by Tigers, Panthers, and enemy tanks that can take it out more than it can take them out. It's not as good of a meat shield as the Churvill MKVII and it still comes out pretty late - so I think an increase of its limit to 2 will help.

Wald

[Krieger Blitzer]

I would agree, but with a slight fuel price increase.. like 100 or something.

[Consti255]

I would agree, but with a slight fuel price increase.. like 100 or something.

+1

[Warhawks97]

Ehm, no. It would turn this doc too much into a pseudo armor doc.

And why it got even HEAT rounds? I never used this unit in inf doc. Hearing it got HEAT is just ridicolous.

[Walderschmidt]

Ehm, no. It would turn this doc too much into a pseudo armor doc.

And why it got even HEAT rounds? I never used this unit in inf doc. Hearing it got HEAT is just ridicolous.

It got HEAT rounds so it could do some damage to Tigers and Panthers reliably so people have a reason to get it rather than always go for the Jacksons.

Wald

[Consti255]

It was in 5.2.8. to make it more appealing.
I really like the change.

[Warhawks97]

It got HEAT rounds so it could do some damage to Tigers and Panthers reliably so people have a reason to get it rather than always go for the Jacksons.

Omg what BS... Instead of getting rid of jumbo in inf doc.... Nooo.. Lets add some random bullshit ability.... Reminds me of Early Tiger being able to reinforce units nearby... Let's add random crap doesn't matter whether it fits to a unit or not.

HEAT TD or as means of emergency defense tool for stubby tanks is one thing. But it doesnt fit A jumbo at all.

[Consti255]

why shouldnt it fit?
its the same round as in the M10 or not?
So the 75 Jumbo gets HE and the 76 the HEAT. I think its great to have.

[MarKr]

Omg what BS... Instead of getting rid of jumbo in inf doc.... Nooo.. Lets add some random bullshit ability.... Reminds me of Early Tiger being able to reinforce units nearby... Let's add random crap doesn't matter whether it fits to a unit or not.

HEAT TD or as means of emergency defense tool for stubby tanks is one thing. But it doesnt fit A jumbo at all.

Let's see how I can do this...

Instead of making a unit in a doc more useful for gameplay...Nooo...Let's get rid of it for some bullshit reason such as "I don't like/use it and want to put it to armor doc because...why not?". Reminds me of that time when someone was against distributing marders/geschütz/75mm Puma and HT between docs because "having more vehicles in T2 buildings is bullshit". But instead having more of them in one doc where they make each other obsolete because their role and purpose is literally the same.

HEAT on a tank that is intented to go against tanks is one thing. But it doesn't fit at all units that are purely anti-infantry. What a bullshit, should be removed from the Axis HE tanks and HTs.

TL;DR: You're acting as if the change was objectivelly an utter nonesense based not on gameplay effect but purely on personal preference.

[Warhawks97]

why shouldnt it fit?
its the same round as in the M10 or not?
So the 75 Jumbo gets HE and the 76 the HEAT. I think its great to have.

3 inch gun ammo is different from 76 m1a2 ammo.

And as far as I know non had HEAT. HEAT was usually only useful for low velocity guns since HEAT pen is not dependent on velocity. But normal guns had better pen and trajectory with their normal ammo.

The most effective HEAT weapon had been the panzerfaust.

[Krieger Blitzer]

i definitely like the HEAT rounds for 76 Jumbo, was a good change.

[MEFISTO]

If we want to see more Jumbos 76mm remove it from Infantry (almos no body use it there) move it to armor as an upgrade to the 75mm paying 20 extra fuel ( no one time upgrade, player should pay 20 extra fuel for the 76mm cannon an keep the limit to 1 Jumbo at the time) , so it will be up to the player if he wants a 75 or 76mm Jumbo, about the HEAT rounds, why not?

[Diablo]

why shouldnt it fit?
its the same round as in the M10 or not?
So the 75 Jumbo gets HE and the 76 the HEAT. I think its great to have.

3 inch gun ammo is different from 76 m1a2 ammo.

And as far as I know non had HEAT. HEAT was usually only useful for low velocity guns since HEAT pen is not dependent on velocity. But normal guns had better pen and trajectory with their normal ammo.

The most effective HEAT weapon had been the panzerfaust.

Then call it HVAP?

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I still prefer 75mm Jumbo in Inf doc and 76mm in Armor doc, where it could be really powerful with all the Armor company features.

At the same time, there is a little reason to get Jumbo in Armor doc when almost for the same price you can get E8 + HE M4.

Jumbo isn’t good in tanking anything basically, even pak40 with AP pens it often enough.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Either way, in Armor or inf docs.. it should still cost a 100 fuel and limit of 2.

[Warhawks97]

why shouldnt it fit?
its the same round as in the M10 or not?
So the 75 Jumbo gets HE and the 76 the HEAT. I think its great to have.

3 inch gun ammo is different from 76 m1a2 ammo.

And as far as I know non had HEAT. HEAT was usually only useful for low velocity guns since HEAT pen is not dependent on velocity. But normal guns had better pen and trajectory with their normal ammo.

The most effective HEAT weapon had been the panzerfaust.

Then call it HVAP?

Not quite sure what you mean. That tank has HVAP already (or had at least. I hope they didnt remove it).
but HVAP and HEAT are two different things. HEAT doesnt lose pen over distance as it doesnt depend on kinetic energy. HVAP purely relies on kinetic energy. Its a harsd tungsten shot being fired with high speeds. HEAT didnt exist for the 76 or 75 mm guns on shermans and TDs.

[MarKr]

Omg realism again...you said that HEAT is bullshit because the guns in reality didn't have them, but it was added as a "high penetration shot with shorter range". For all I care we can rename the original AP ability to "M62 ACP" and the current HEAT to HVAP because it will still be "high penetration, short range shot". But you're making a fuss here literally over a line of text.

[Consti255]

Pioniers meanwhile laughing while fuseing a top gunner back to life

[Krieger Blitzer]

Not quite sure what you mean. That tank has HVAP already (or had at least. I hope they didnt remove it).
but HVAP and HEAT are two different things. HEAT doesnt lose pen over distance as it doesnt depend on kinetic energy. HVAP purely relies on kinetic energy. Its a harsd tungsten shot being fired with high speeds. HEAT didnt exist for the 76 or 75 mm guns on shermans and TDs.

it's an ability that costs ammo and has guaranteed pen at relatively short range.. that's what it is in-game, you can call it HVAP, HEAT, Pineapple; it really doesn't matter at all.. but from a balance & game-play point of view; it works great and doesn't seem to be breaking any serious realism/historical aspects either.

[Warhawks97]

Not quite sure what you mean. That tank has HVAP already (or had at least. I hope they didnt remove it).
but HVAP and HEAT are two different things. HEAT doesnt lose pen over distance as it doesnt depend on kinetic energy. HVAP purely relies on kinetic energy. Its a harsd tungsten shot being fired with high speeds. HEAT didnt exist for the 76 or 75 mm guns on shermans and TDs.

it's an ability that costs ammo and has guaranteed pen at relatively short range.. that's what it is in-game, you can call it HVAP, HEAT, Pineapple; it really doesn't matter at all.. but from a balance & game-play point of view; it works great and doesn't seem to be breaking any serious realism/historical aspects either.

It actually does. And no, you can't call HEAT as HVAP. If you want to make the player aware that he uses some sort of special anti tank ammo, you better call it "some kind of special AP ammo" in its description.

Sometimes the game loves the details like using correct names of the used ammo. Like pzgr. 40 and so on. And then the game comes suddenly up with some sort of randomly invented fantasy stuff coming out of nowhere.

And I don't really like how the jumbo turns from a breakthrough tank into a potential heavy anti tank unit that can take on any axis tank.

I would have removed the jumbo from the doc since the Jack's fits much better as a support tool against tanks since this doc has the means to overcome any defense.
Other than that I would have boosted jumbos armor a bit vs heavier German guns as to make it more useful as damage sponge.

But this reminds me of the days when the jumbo got called in to beat enemie armor rather than crushing defenses. So it's a step backward in terms of game progress.

[MarKr]

OK new ingame texts:
Old AP ammo:
"Ability name: Better AP ammo
Description text: Use to faster defeat enemy medium tanks. (We would call it M63 ACP but Warhawks would bitch about it not being rEaLiStIcAlY performing)

Old HEAT:
Ability name: AP ammo even better than the other one
Description: Has shorter range but better penetration. Can penetrate even heavy tanks if you get lucky enough to get close. (We would call this HVAP but Warhawks would be unhappy about some rEaLiSm aspect).

[Krieger Blitzer]

OK new ingame texts:
Old AP ammo:
"Ability name: Better AP ammo
Description text: Use to faster defeat enemy medium tanks. (We would call it M63 ACP but Warhawks would bitch about it not being rEaLiStIcAlY performing)

Old HEAT:
Ability name: AP ammo even better than the other one
Description: Has shorter range but better penetration. Can penetrate even heavy tanks if you get lucky enough to get close. (We would call this HVAP but Warhawks would be unhappy about some rEaLiSm aspect).

xD

[Warhawks97]

OK new ingame texts:
Old AP ammo:
"Ability name: Better AP ammo
Description text: Use to faster defeat enemy medium tanks. (We would call it M63 ACP but Warhawks would bitch about it not being rEaLiStIcAlY performing)

Old HEAT:
Ability name: AP ammo even better than the other one
Description: Has shorter range but better penetration. Can penetrate even heavy tanks if you get lucky enough to get close. (We would call this HVAP but Warhawks would be unhappy about some rEaLiSm aspect).

"Call it magic trick shot, We are giving a shit"

[MarKr]

That would be historically inaccurate! There was no magic involved in HVAP!

[Diablo]

Why is it such a problem that the US receive a competent sorta heavy tank?
The german docs all have some armor beasts with firepower, nowadays even SE can use the Elephant.
And it's not like the Germans would even struggle to penetrate the Jumbo.. wink wink Panzerfaust. So a Jumbo being able to trade ammo for a single (isn't it just ONE shot?) penetrating hit. Nothing wrong with a little danger to german assets.