Love for the Stug III

[Consti255]

I think it could be a solution for 2 little problems the game has right now.

1. The Blitz call in is 3 CP and offers you a Panzer III and a UAS. In general it is way to expensive CP wise to make it attractive choosing it over early Panthers, Stugs or Stormtroops. The Panzer III is okay, but since the cost drop of it and the moveing to the panzerfactory, it dont give you that cost savement it used to be.
2. The Stug III right now is in general a support gun with actually really nice and fitting abilitys for storms, but it gets sadly overshadowed by the Stug IV because of its camo, and people tend to camp more with Blitz doc than pushing (what the doc is supposed to do).

What to change?
-Remove the Stug 3 from Panzerfactory
-Stug CP unlock only grants you the StuG IV now
- swap out the Panzer III from the call in for a Stug III
-Replaceing the timed HE from the StuG III to a perma swap HE


What changed for balance?
Blitz doc is intended to push hard in the early stages and swapping out the HE mode of a tank with better armor could help. To prevent a Stug III spam
it will be a call in only unit and for the loss of the storm ability without the Stug beeing buildable, you still have the Panther A or G ? One of them.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Great idea.

[tarakancheg]

+1

[Krieger Blitzer]

I'm all with you, except for the perma HE mode.. i would say just a single-shot HE ability.

And btw, Puma 50mm also needs single-shot HE ability as replacement for timed HE round.

[Diablo]

Maybe give it the single HE shot at zero ammo cost (free ability use). So economically speaking, it's a support tank. But it doesn't excel at continuous DPS vs. infantry/buildings like the perma HE tanks do.

[Consti255]

I'm all with you, except for the perma HE mode.. i would say just a single-shot HE ability.

And btw, Puma 50mm also needs single-shot HE ability as replacement for timed HE round.

i disagree with you. Making it a single shot HE would make it senseless again when compared to the Stug IV.
So the Stug III gets more like a pushing tool combined with the called in UAS and perma HE and the Stug IV the tank hunter with single shot HE and camo.
See the Stug III as the one with the stubby canon, which isnt in the game since we have no model for it.

desprite the puma, ive already made a topic about the Puma and the Chaffee right here:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=4385

[crazzy501]

I think it could be a solution for 2 little problems the game has right now.

1. The Blitz call in is 3 CP and offers you a Panzer III and a UAS. In general it is way to expensive CP wise to make it attractive choosing it over early Panthers, Stugs or Stormtroops. The Panzer III is okay, but since the cost drop of it and the moveing to the panzerfactory, it dont give you that cost savement it used to be.
2. The Stug III right now is in general a support gun with actually really nice and fitting abilitys for storms, but it gets sadly overshadowed by the Stug IV because of its camo, and people tend to camp more with Blitz doc than pushing (what the doc is supposed to do).

What to change?
-Remove the Stug 3 from Panzerfactory
-Stug CP unlock only grants you the StuG IV now
- swap out the Panzer III from the call in for a Stug III
-Replaceing the timed HE from the StuG III to a perma swap HE


What changed for balance?
Blitz doc is intended to push hard in the early stages and swapping out the HE mode of a tank with better armor could help. To prevent a Stug III spam
it will be a call in only unit and for the loss of the storm ability without the Stug beeing buildable, you still have the Panther A or G ? One of them.

+1

[Warhawks97]

So we get stug III´s for 0 fuel along with an elite infantry squad for 3 CP? I think this will give players the ability to get a good multirole tank with decent anti tank and anti infantry/emplacment capabilties while losing no fuel at all which gets spend into tec up and thus helping to get panthers pretty easily.

In the past this call in used to call in a stug IV late and a gren squad. It was a pretty powerfull ability by provideing the player a decent tank easily even when being cut from any fuel. Back then it cost 750 MP and i think 5 CP or even 7.

So keep that in mind pls.

[crazzy501]

So we get stug III´s for 0 fuel along with an elite infantry squad for 3 CP? I think this will give players the ability to get a good multirole tank with decent anti tank and anti infantry/emplacment capabilties while losing no fuel at all which gets spend into tec up and thus helping to get panthers pretty easily.

In the past this call in used to call in a stug IV late and a gren squad. It was a pretty powerfull abilityas it provided the player a get decent tank easily even when cut from any fuel. Back then it costs 750 MP for i think 5 CP or even 7.

So keep that in mind pls.

it's just lil squishy stug3. Don't worry, nothing can go wrong

[Warhawks97]

Whenever players say that, things will go wrong. Personally i wouldnt see any reason why i shouldnt always rush this call in while sparing all the fuel for vital tecs. The stug isnt all that squshiy or not much more than a F2 or sherman while offering powerfull offensive and defensive capabilties.

[MarKr]

What changed for balance?
Blitz doc is intended to push hard in the early stages and swapping out the HE mode of a tank with better armor could help. To prevent a Stug III spam
it will be a call in only unit and for the loss of the storm ability without the Stug beeing buildable, you still have the Panther A or G ? One of them.

Other changes to balance:
PIII has only HE now and the HEAT shot is pay-per-shot. HE isn't too effective even against lightly armored vehicles, and downright ineffective vs tanks. With this change you would get a unit with better armor, pretty much the same anti-infantry capability with HE but also a LOT better AT capability with AP (because the StuG weapon is the same as PIV H/J/PaK40), which one-shots light vehicles and also has a decent chance vs medium tanks.

StuG III has the "static mode" which increses RoF and range. HE modes have lower range than standard AP ammo. The static mode would allow the StuG to shoot the HE farther than the PIII ever could and it also has the ability buff Storms around - the call in comes with storms so the combo would be pretty lethal. As Hawks said, it also costs no fuel, which leaves more fuel for faster teching.

With all that being said, what will be the counter play of allies against this? What do you get as Allies after 3 CPs that could effectively counter this callin ability?

[Krieger Blitzer]

StuG III has the "static mode" which increses RoF and range. HE modes have lower range than standard AP ammo. The static mode would allow the StuG to shoot the HE farther than the PIII ever could and it also has the ability buff Storms around - the call in comes with storms so the combo would be pretty lethal. As Hawks said, it also costs no fuel, which leaves more fuel for faster teching.

Exactly the underlined part is one of the primary reasons why i am against HE mode for Stug3, but had no time to explain that on my previous post.. well pointed out, MarKr.

Generally speaking.. i am against HE mode for any long barrel tanks, single-shot HE is welcome though... Timed HE abilities should all be replaced by single-shot.

@Consti
Stug3 will have the advantage of being a call-in according to this suggestion.. meaning that you don't pay any fuel for it... This should already make it on par with Stug4.

[Consti255]

Well thats basicly true yeah. I forgot about the higher CP cost back in the days.

that beeing said, there is the option to swap out the StuPa/StuH unlock to make it higher CP cost, or higher the cost in MP or even add fuel costs to the call in.

[MEFISTO]

What changed for balance?
Blitz doc is intended to push hard in the early stages and swapping out the HE mode of a tank with better armor could help. To prevent a Stug III spam
it will be a call in only unit and for the loss of the storm ability without the Stug beeing buildable, you still have the Panther A or G ? One of them.

Other changes to balance:
PIII has only HE now and the HEAT shot is pay-per-shot. HE isn't too effective even against lightly armored vehicles, and downright ineffective vs tanks. With this change you would get a unit with better armor, pretty much the same anti-infantry capability with HE but also a LOT better AT capability with AP (because the StuG weapon is the same as PIV H/J/PaK40), which one-shots light vehicles and also has a decent chance vs medium tanks.

StuG III has the "static mode" which increses RoF and range. HE modes have lower range than standard AP ammo. The static mode would allow the StuG to shoot the HE farther than the PIII ever could and it also has the ability buff Storms around - the call in comes with storms so the combo would be pretty lethal. As Hawks said, it also costs no fuel, which leaves more fuel for faster teching.

With all that being said, what will be the counter play of allies against this? What do you get as Allies after 3 CPs that could effectively counter this callin ability?

Camouflage M10 or no CP 76mm AT gun, also after panther rework you only see BK players rushing Panthers (6cp) because if you go 3cp call in, then panthers are (9cp) and become pretty much useless, by that time allies may have 90mm gun.
If I have a StugIII call in, I may use it for an early push instead of go and rush panther.
No mention that now 3cp panzer III call in give storm no support at all since they are naked vs any kind of armor.

[MEFISTO]

Also keep in mind that this call in is not in the same path as panther.
Before Doctrine rework bk were in the same position were call cost 6cp and were not in the same cp unlock path with panther, what make BK players naked vs armor if they choose call in vs Tiger or panther rush.
Now with a weaker panther no sense to go for 3cp call in with no armor support for stormtroopers, unless you have no fuel at all, and still choosing stugIII and stormtroopers call (3cp) if you early push did not work you won’t have a big chance to beat an armor doctrine.

[Warhawks97]

Also keep in mind that this call in is not in the same path as panther.
Before Doctrine rework bk were in the same position were call cost 6cp and were not in the same cp unlock path with panther, what make BK players naked vs armor if they choose call in vs Tiger or panther rush.
Now with a weaker panther no sense to go for 3cp call in with no armor support for stormtroopers, unless you have no fuel at all, and still choosing stugIII and stormtroopers call (3cp) if you early push did not work you won’t have a big chance to beat an armor doctrine.

Not quite sure what you tried to say. Call in support was never in the same path as panthers. And armor doc struggles vs early to mid medium armor spam. I don't really see any tank there that can withstand this spam unless you rush for a jumbo. And till stug spam can be countered, panthers will join the fight as all the fuel was spared.