Love for the Marder 3

[Warhawks97]

I would have moved the Puma to the support building rather than logistic company. As i said, check it yourself. Up to 16 units in a t2 building and all of them pretty good.

In HR games the logistic company upgrade is very quickly purchased, esspecially when you are not going for many vehicles. And that building gives you a lot. From small scout cars to heavy Pumas with 75 mm gun and HT´s with 75 mm HE guns.

So basically you get stuff to kill high tier units pretty easily even with just a small ammount of map controle. Its like we add the Hellcat to the Motorpool and available after the upgrade.

[Consti255]

I dont think there has to be a change costwise, PS can also reduce the price of it.

I just think a little tweak like:

1.speed buff
2. range buff
3. range buff from ambush ?

This should do the work.

But just compared to the Puma, the puma is faster, has more range and is also protected from oneshots due its 15% less at canon damage.

I think a general tier down could do it aswell.
There are plenty tweaks that dont affect the balance too much to get it more appealing for people.

[Warhawks97]

I dont think there has to be a change costwise, PS can also reduce the price of it.

I just think a little tweak like:

1.speed buff
2. range buff
3. range buff from ambush ?

This should do the work.

But just compared to the Puma, the puma is faster, has more range and is also protected from oneshots due its 15% less at canon damage.

I think a general tier down could do it aswell.
There are plenty tweaks that dont affect the balance too much to get it more appealing for people.

Where you get your info from?

Both have standard 60 range which is fine and i see no reason why it should change. Ambush adds 10 range for marder and 5 for Puma.

Ambush range buffs are not needed either.

[Consti255]

Mencius told me once.

Oh didnt the Puma had more range while in ambush ?
My Bad than.

[MenciusMoldbug]

It's the veterancy 1 modifier which is the 15% damage reduction that saves the pumas from a lot of things, pretty much every axis vehicle has this 15% damage reduction at vet 1.

The max I remember an AT gun can damage a puma is by 315 (max damage of 90 multipled by 3.5 for puma's target table), that is enough to kill a vet 0 puma, but a vet 1 puma has the 15% damage reduction kicking in, so a full damage shot won't kill it (and you now need ambush to kill the puma succesfully, and if you roll low on the damage RNG well...).

Vehicle vet tables combined with target tables creates this situation where a 75mm puma is actually much stronger as an AT platform then a marder 3.

Checking vet tables again, it seems most axis vehicles also still have the old wehrmacht tables from VCoH for vet tables. Which means at vet 3 they get the 1.3x damage increase, but honestly, this isn't even that appealing compared to having a damage reduction which makes the vehicle survivability greatly increase compared to the allied counterparts.

[Warhawks97]

the vet 1 damage reduction is a remnant of vcoh. If i am not mistaken the damage of an at gun vs puma is modified by x4 an not 3.5. Might check it again tomorrow. Generally its 3.5 but when i checked today i am pretty sure vs Puma its x4.

I know this situation for stuarts vs Greyhound. Greyhound has more chances to survive medium AT guns.