50mm Puma and Chaffe

[Consti255]

Make this boys good pls.
Both struggeling right now ,because they come in time while you can get already a bigger tank for nearly the same ressources.
And while they are so expensive they tend to underperform.
There a different ways to buff them i think so i am gonna list the seperatly.
Suggestions:

For Both a general role change/change
Give them both more view range and maybe even a little bit more detection against invisible units.(just maybe) the view range should be the same like the CW Recce (but without Binoculars) which is already doing is job really really well and is used very often.
They are recon tanks and they should behave like that.
This change alone would make them more attractive to produce but there could be make more. Since they cost a lot of fuel and the are going to slow your tiering significantly down you should get something for your money.


Chaffe:
1. Make this Tank FAST as it should be, and also a bit cheaper. It is really pricey right now.
2. The one i dislike the most, add swapable HE (since the Stuart does this role i think its a no no)

The Chaffe is a reward tank and should be like it, i think it should more operate as a recon tank with a big gun, while the Stuart is more one like an infantry support tank with HE and shrapnell.
So its more like a tank observer which should be also viable in the later stages.

Puma:
same problem here comes in a wired spot while you could already go for a PIV which cost only the factory more but than nearly as much.
Since it is really fast and its behavior is fitting well into a recon tank, there are different things you could change.

1.make it cheaper
2.Swap the stationary out for an ambush option ( this comes with even a price increase or a delay that the tank factory has been build because he 50mm gun would eat M4 shermans which are a tier higher.)


They are an investment but when microed or placed well they can be even be really usefull in the later stages because there will be always a M4 or Stuby roaming the field.
What do you think?

[Warhawks97]

Chaffe:
1. Chaffe and stuart should get a MP price drop of about 20 to 30 MP.
2. Chaffe should get some kind of reconassaince tools. Any kind of ability or whatever, idk. Perhaps some sort of hidden observer mode.
3. Chaffe and stuart should not be reward units. Perhaps, chaffe should only be available in armor doctrines in return.
4. Once the commander arty strike in armor doc is unlocked, this unit will be able to call an arty strike even without having a tank commander. Perhaps a shorter barrage, idk.
5. Perhaps this tank would get some doctrinal abilities. Call in a strafe run, arty strike or whatever.


Just throwing ideas arround.

These tanks needed to go ahead of the main armored thrust to scout out the location of enemy units, report their location, call down an artillery barrage or air attack and leave without engaging heavily armed enemy tanks if at all possible. They were not meant to take part in tank on tank combat. They had to rely on their speed and maneuverability to get them out of trouble.

Puma:
I recently started to use it more often since the Tank IV´s can sometimes be a pain in the ass to use due to their slow acceleration. It saved my Panzer IV J twice against enemie M10 attacks. Its HE is also quite cool.


However, reconassaince units like Pumas (20 mm, 50 mm) and M20 are not really reconassaince units. They cant detect hidden units, have no observer mode or any kind of good sight ranges and so on. They are mostly just combat units. I think they all deserve some sort of reconassaince capabilties rather than stationary firing modes. However, as combat units they are all extremely good.

[Consti255]

agreed

[H.Drescher]

Chaffees, Greyhounds, the M20, and Pumas typically become irrelevant as the game goes on. This is fine as they are light midgame armored vehicles/tanks. Even with their current prices they are still fine.

There is an interesting gameplay opportunity to make these units retain their relevance into the late game through giving them purchasable recon abilities with prerequisites. For the Americans, building the Tank Factory would be enough to allow the Chaffee, M20, and Greyhound to purchase an MP unlock for a Binoculars ability which also increases their detection range.

Again the German's can have a Similar requirement with the Panzer Factory and Battle phase. Again with the ability for the Pumas (not the 75mm variants) to have a purchasable Binocs upgrade which gives them a detection range as well.

It would make the mid/late game vision war more interesting/varied and breath new life into these units. It also doesn't make the first tier of recon units irrelevant as they are far more sneaky and cheaper to produce.

[Consti255]

yeah.
I would even go further and maybe give them as Hawks said doctrinal abilitys.

Maybe behind some Vet for the Puma (Vet2 )
Puma:
for Blitz: a smoke call in or target mark
for Prop: mortar strike

The Chaffe behind CP unlocks?
Chaffe:
For Inf: smoke or 81mm mortar (after 105 unlock or maybe after the 107 emplacement? )
AB: recon plane or maybe a single bomb drop? (this could be behind the CP wall of the call in mortar)
Armor: 105mm call in (shared CD with the tank commander and after CP available)

[Consti255]

Wanna bump this thread. I still think there could be an improvement for these both units.