Pershing\Jackson\jumbo

[Krieger Blitzer]

Not sure if the poll results on Panthers had gathered enough solid feedback or if they had been any useful, but overall according to the Discord discussions and forum topics.. the community seemed divided, although i hope the questionnaire was helpful.

Though, for those who still think it's the Panthers that needs changes.. i would then like to briefly draw your attention on other alternatives that would actually improve certain aspects of the Allied game-play.. instead of narrowing it down to "a problem revolving only around a single unit" which doesn't seem right to me... Given how all the Panther tank models in the game are very fine tuned, and thus; i see no reason to change them.

For instance;

- Why is the 76 Jumbo limited to only a single tank available exclusively for just 1 US doctrine only? Although the Panthers are available in 3 Axis docs?

- Why does US Armor doc player has to spend 12 CP for 1 time call-in unit?? (Super Pershing) while it was suggested several times to allow access for Pershing ACE when the SP is gone.

- Jackson currently have 60 range (Panthers, Tigers, Pershings have 65) the camo jackson gets +5 range when ambush is activated.. and the B1 gets +10 in addition to faster reload when static mode is enabled... So, what about improving jacksons and giving them 65 default range? Therefore the default range would be same as Tigers & Panthers without having to use any abilities.

- How about allowing the AB bombing airstrike to kill tanks more reliable again? instead of adding jacksons in case players don't like that. Which wouldn't be a problem whatsoever, thanks to AA effectiveness in the current version...

- How about bringing back the Firefly to RAF doc and Achilles to RA doc?


I honestly think the complaints about Panther tank is quite flawed.. when there is several improvements for Allies that could be implemented which sound absolutely legit too, and that gives me the feeling that some players just try to target the Panther hoping for nothing else but a mere nerf straight away.

[Warhawks97]

For instance;

- Why is the 76 Jumbo limited to only a single tank available exclusively for just 1 US doctrine only? Although the Panthers are available in 3 Axis docs?

because a Jumbo is not a Panther. It wont solve a damn thing. The Jumbo has better armor vs german main stay anti tank guns such as 75 mm L/48 type guns. Much better than Panther actually. But when pitted vs Panthers, it loses as the Panther has better chances to pen jumbo (+ much better mobility) than it is the other way arround. More Jumbos would result in nerfing its armor against weapons like pak 40 or Axis have to rush Panther guns even more.


Panther is a mainstay late game battletank. Jumbo is a special purpose tank supposed to break through defenses, not to be pitted against units like Panthers.

- Why does US Armor doc player has to spend 12 CP for 1 time call-in unit?? (Super Pershing) while it was suggested several times to allow access for Pershing ACE when the SP is gone.

The SP causes more issues than it solves actually. One reason allied tanks get no buff is because this one single tank exists. it would be easier to balance allied or US armor when this thing wouldnt exist.

- Jackson currently have 60 range (Panthers, Tigers, Pershings have 65) the camo jackson gets +5 range when ambush is activated.. and the B1 gets +10 in addition to faster reload when static mode is enabled... So, what about improving jacksons and giving them 65 default range? Therefore the default range would be same as Tigers & Panthers without having to use any abilities.

I have mixed feelings. Right now it would become too easy to kite axis medium tanks with this tank. Making it cost effective vs mediums but still not so much vs heavies.

My current opinion is that all tanks should have more range rather than having range buffs under certain circumstances (ambush, stationary etc). But less range while moving. EaW mod is simply more sophisticated in the way tanks and tank to tank combat works.


hilles to RA doc?

I honestly think the complaints about Panther tank is quite flawed.. when there is several improvements for Allies that could be implemented which sound absolutely legit too, and that gives me the feeling that some players just try to target the Panther hoping for nothing else but a mere nerf straight away.

Because improvments for allied means that you screw the balance for all docs that dont have axis to Panthers.

[H.Drescher]

I still believe that balancing an entire game around a single unit is absolutely ridiculous rather than addressing the unit itself.

The current panther is too expensive. If you fall behind you are fucked, if you lose it without having fuel to float on, you can get fucked. Changing the panther is the best for the health of the game without this horrible cascading chain of events.

The current panther is also just blatantly overpowered. Killed all the infantry? Go on a killing spree without much worry and drive straight to their base is usually how panthers win games. You can't? Then build an economic advantage and build more panthers, whilst your enemy is slowly starved of all their resources and counters. Incredibly emergent gameplay there.

Give all doctrines a 76 Jumbo? Another balance nightmare in the making. They usually bring a similar situation that the panther does, albeit to a far less reliable degree. The exception here is that Jumbos have a unit limit.

There are three things that need to be changed with tanks right now:

The Panthers and the Pershings must be changed. Their current gameplay and balance state is atrocious. When the "hISoRiCaL" argument is used, its still absolutely atrocious.

The Panzer IV and it's iterations must be brought closer together and given stronger purpose like Sherman's right now. Excluding the Easy Eight as its upgrade is extremely vague at the moment.

What is the F2? A cheap early game to the M4 that is better in anti tank combat, yet can still lose if outplayed/bad rng. Okay cool. Give it a purchasable roof MG42 (prerequisite in the HQ) so it may remain relevant like how the M4 sherman does with it's roof mounted 50 cal.

What is the F2 when the 76 rolls around? Free EXP and Veterency. This is fine, its a tier above, so what. Get the upgraded Panzer IV J? Sure, but if you lose this tank you have lost more resources than the investment to the 76 was. The axis' middle ground tank is garbage. For most people it is more economically viable to wait to get to 880 manpower and 130 fuel for a far superior tank than it would be to get one that is 550 manpower and 65 fuel. Especially when this tank can just simply end the game.

CP comparison between the Panther and Pershing? A panther for Blitz cost 6, a panther for luft cost 5. A panther for Tank Support Cost 8. A Pershing for Armor costs 8.

When using Blitzkrieg Doctrine, the Panther tank can be furthered buff to a ridiculous degree with the Blitzkrieg ability, ensuring that it will win any engagement.

Adding more Jacksons, Jumbos, or anything won't do anything to address the problem. It'll actually just exacerbate it further.

As for the Super Pershing? I despise this unit. It turns entire games about this unit and leads to an incredibly boring game of cat and mouse. Its a desperation unit that is a symptom of the current problem. Despite this being a tank directly designed to kill King Tigers, it probably ends up killing and dying more to panthers.

Again, I am in the belief that a nerfed panther will be better for the entire health of the game. There will be heathier and more proactive counter play, rather than this cancerous fester of "passive anti-tank" that people suggest. The panther will also become cheaper and thus will be more readily available to build for everyone. Addressing the Medium mid tier tank game and buffing the F2 is a priority as well. Ensuring that the Panther and Pershing can square off each other while still being able to reliably win against other tanks in 1v1s is also extremely important. Neither of these tanks should get off scot free from engagements with absolute certainty.

[Consti255]

I agree on Hawks + Drescher.

Something to add:

- How about allowing the AB bombing airstrike to kill tanks more reliable again? instead of adding jacksons in case players don't like that. Which wouldn't be a problem whatsoever, thanks to AA effectiveness in the current version...

The bombs still are really potent in taking out tanks. Buffing them wouldnt change a thing because putting up AA just makes this buff useless.
Its more like taking a moment when the enemy AA is weak and trhow in bombs. They still do oneshot Panthers no damage buff is needed here.

- How about bringing back the Firefly to RAF doc and Achilles to RA doc?

Achillies into RA yes maybe but not desprite the Panthers just in general. Becuase the Churchill dont add anthing imo.
Firefly to RAF ? Wouldnt change a single god damn thing. Achillies are WAY more capable of taking out Panthers due to their ambush and flank speed combo.
Adding back the Firefly would help with Tigers or P4s but defnitly not the Panthers.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

That’s not true, Thunderbolt bombs cannot kill any heavy tank. In fact often even PZ.4 survives a direct hit.

[Consti255]

they can kill a panther from full hp and no, no P4 survives a direct hit. Unless it is the good old miss hit. Where i looks like a hit but the game sees it as a miss. Same goes for arty when it looks lke it hits but it doesnt do damage.

They also shouldnt oneshot tanks all the time. You got the rockets for that purpose.

And no i am tired of this stupid conversations about buffing other units and throwing off every doc just to let the Panther be as it is.
Seriously i dont know why we are even argueing.
The Poll showed off that many players want to reduce the armor of the Panther and even when it is just from 17% to 30% for the 76.

[Consti255]

Also i just said that the bombs are potent as they are right now.
And they shouldnt just blow up every heavy tank like KT, Tigers and other stuff.

I hate to say it but still the Panther is a medium which is just heavy as f**k.
The bombs should stay as they are.