Krieger Blitzer wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022, 16:38
For instance, armor BHN is often over-looked when speaking of the Tiger1's armor.. which then gives an illusion that Tigers (for example) were weaker than advertised.. where -in fact- they truly were hard to knock out.
Thin horizontal plates (26 mm thick): 298-343
Thick nearly vertical plates: 257-310
In the video the shot was caclulated against 280 BHN.
At kursk Russians did not even have their SU-85 in service that came shortly after. They had the SU-152 (not the ISU 152) which could kill a Tiger tank with its pure explosion of its HE and i think the SU 122 which was basically just a stug. However both were not a TD and were extremley inaccurate due to the massive trajectory of its shot.
The usual russian guns at that time just couldnt beat it. Things changed in 44 and 45 with the appearance of the ISU 152, ISU 122 shortly afterwards and ISU or SU 100 in 1945 with massive firepower.
So, just to put this straight.. the US 76 gun was a 1944 late war cannon that hasn't seen as much combat as Tigers, therefore the perfomance of these guns is a bit vague, whereas Tigers (and other German tanks) have had much more combat time to prove their efficency.
The 2915 M4A2 76(W) all got shiped to the USSR where they saw a lot of action. In fact, 1944 was the most intense year of the war. over 50% of all losses and deaths occured in 1944. The Germans produced 50% of their War Gear in 1944. The US at that time produced still more in this year alone than all other war participating nations together iirc.
And the German gear at that time didnt "prove anything". In fact early in the war German gear was way more superior in comparission to other nations than it was in 43/44 at which time all others managed to pick up with german war gear or even bypassing it. In 1941 and 1942 German War Gear had its peak and the largest advantage.
Just take a look at 41-43 German stuff:
-Reliable Panzer IIIs and Panzer Ivs getting long barrels
-Stugs with long barrel
-FW 190 was the fastest plane at that time
-Me 190 F variant was the best and fastest. Later models got heavier and often slower except for the K model which was produced only 250 times.
-Ju 88 being a fast medium bomber
-Stuka being an accurate dive bomber
-Artillery was decent enough.
Meanwhile Russians had in 41-43:
-I-16 oldtimer plane
-slow Yak-1, yak-7, LaGG-3 in the air
-unreliable early T-34
-No real TD
-Not so mobile artillery, only a lot of it.
Brits in 41-43:
-slow Spitfire MK V compared to FW 190
-slow american build P40 compared to FW 190 and Me 109 F
-a few tiny medium Bombers and the heavies just went into production
US 41-43:
-They just got started to build stuff. Till that time only a few A 20 medium bombers, P40 and thats all. P38 just came up.
-Probably the best thing US got out at this time was the Sherman. In 43 it was one of the very best medium Tanks. It was ultra reliable as proven many times, literally all war parties took the sherman whenever possible. In Africa only bad tactics and the 88 guns limited its effectivness.
However in 1943-1944 things started to shift drastically:
-The Spitfires got massive upgrades, ultimatetely the MK IX beating the Fw190A in almsot every way and any altitude.
-The P-51 came to the frontlines as well as better P47´s
-US dominated the heavy bomber field. Their defensive armament was not just numerous, but also their target systems were a generation ahead of its time, esspecially in the B29 Bomber over Japan.
-The US had BY FAR the best artillery guns and artillery system as a whole (
https://armyhistory.org/u-s-and-german- ... omparison/)
-And even in the area of tanks they started to shine. Massive improvments for shermans in terms of safety, mobility, gunsights, armament. There was a incident in itally when Shermans fought axis tanks, including Tigers. Out of 15 Shermans, 11 got knocked out. However not a single crewmen died. On the other Hand axis also had losses, including at least one Tiger Tank.
- US had also by far the most effective Anti air ammo. They used shells with proximity fuses. Absolutely revolutionary. But got only used from ships over open water in fear the enemie could reverse engineer this ammo when used over land. the Japs lost almost 40% of their planes to the ship-based anti air weapons due to this VT shell.
The east was not different. Artillery got super mobile due to US build Trucks, Yak 9 got a new Engine, Yak 3 came out, T34-85, ISU 152 and ISU 122 also made their appearance.
So, when you say german War Gear proved itseld in 42 and 43, well, yes it did. It was probably the best out there. but towards end of 1943 and during 1944 axis didnt really bring anything new except for the Panther really. Their bombers saw minor improvments and the new models didnt get to the sky due to mechanical failures (esspecially HE 177). Its funny though that the He 177, despite seeing almost no action due to many engine overheatings and fires is being labeld as the "Kampfstärkste" ("Battle power") Aircraft. They only tried to improve existing stuff to a point where it was basically "downgraded". the Panzer IV H went far beyond its planned weight limit of 22 tons with its 25-26 tons. Panther only got reliable in 44 and new projects like the King Tiger were complete strategic and tactical errors.
The Fw190 C variant never made it into the air and the D-9 Model only saw a bit of action. Only arround a dozens of TA-152 fighter planes, a superb airplane, perhaps the best of ww2, left the factories.
The War went on so quickly that stuff, that proved capable in 42 and 43, was largely outdated by 1944 standards.
In short words: Axis had the best tactics, perhaps best soldiers and admirable geae in 1939-1942. In 1943 things got difficult for them and by 1944 they only produced masses but of much lower quality. As an example: During a battle in 1944 i think in italy, germans fired salvos of their 170 mm artillery against an enemie bridgehead. However, 70% of shots fired were duts and didnt explode. I think that sums up the Situation Axis had been in 1944 in terms of quality. And even being in the defensive which usually means less losses, the axis lost more tanks in france than the allied did.
Krieger Blitzer wrote: ↑26 Jan 2022, 17:38
The reason 76 guns didn't see much combat vs Tigers is because most Tigers were operational on the Eastern Front, and because Tiger1s were used since 1942 (so it's not a late war Axis tech) whereas the 1944 US 76 guns were deployed after mass bombing of Axis territory where not much ground enemy was left anyway.
Truth is, Americans fought the least in Europe, yet made the most nowadays movies out of it.
Hollywood isn't any better than Axis propaganda.
True, US portraying themselves as the heroes despite having the fewest losses during the war.
However, only due to them the other allied survived. Everyone used their equipment, even the chinese. And pretty much every other allied nation swapped their gear for US gear whenever possible, except for the british Spitfire and Lancaster Bomber.
So their gear proved effective not just in 1944. And the guys from the 8th Air Force were perhaps among the bravest in 1943 with insane loss rates and low chances to survive their missions. It was literally a journey without homecoming. A suicide mission. Yet they carried on. US soldiers fought on all fronts since 1942. Even before volunataries fought with the british air force in 1940 or in china. There simply were no boots in europe prior to 1944.