About v5.2.8

[Krieger Blitzer]

I didn't have the time to try it out yet.. so i can't really say whether it's a good patch or not.

However; i noticed Panther.G got significantly less HP now but without any price reduction in TS doc?? This tank costs 8 CP, so I would say the price now needs to become cheaper accordingly, perhaps around 780MP / 135 fuel.

Btw, the G in TS is limited to 2 tanks only somehow...

Also, what about the Luft Panther.D, currently it costs 830MP & 130 fuel.. it doesn't necessarily need to become as cheap as Blitz one, but surely not as expensive as now... i would say it could be something like 730MP & 115 fuel.

That said, i hoped to see 76 jumbo moved to Armor doc with 2 limit.

Also i think Tulips will now be even more effective vs Panther with lower HP, so i believe Tulips should consume at least 8 ammo upkeep.

[MarKr]

So much for

So please, play some matches, post your feedback (after you've played some games, please) and try not to freak out only based on some numbers listed here .

Anyway...

However; i noticed Panther.G got significantly less HP now but without any price reduction in TS doc?? This tank costs 8 CP, so I would say the price now needs to become cheaper accordingly, perhaps around 780MP / 135 fuel.

Panther in TS doc wasn't made more expensive in last update and so it wasn't made chaper this update. Unlike BK doc, TS still has other, better tanks in its roster so TS is not dependent on fielding larger numbers of Panthers - also why the limit is there.

Also, what about the Luft Panther.D, currently it costs 830MP & 130 fuel.. it doesn't necessarily need to become as cheap as Blitz one, but surely not as expensive as now... i would say it could be something like 730MP & 115 fuel.

Same as in TS doc - this one didn't get more expensive and also not cheaper. The roles of Panthers in BK doc and Luft doc are different so it is not needed to always adjust costs in both.

[Warhawks97]

Well, markr, you said Panthers will still keep some speed. Thing is they are not faster than the Tiger late model. They are pretty much the same now. 2 acceleration and 4 speed.

Also any sherman can now outrun them. So for me, the thing that made the panther valuable and what for what i liked it the most, was the fact that it was more mobile than heavy tanks and even superior to most mediums.

The thing should remain a compromise between speed, firepower and armor. Now it has armor and firepower (pretty darn good one) but has lost its speed. Changing acceleration is one thing which was the main cause of being able to kite so well, but taking away one of its trademarks... well.
In a test match vs bots it felt like i am controlling a tiger.





Also Panther G in TS doc sits at 880/130. Thats just sick given how many CP you have to invest into it.

Do us one favour pls, stick with a units cost because having the same unit for various CP and cost just makes adjusting stats incredible hard.
In that sense i think Panther D can stay in luft doc only while BK and TS will only use A´s and G´s and for the same price pls.

Also, whats the point of that 0.9 received pen modifier when all Panthers have it now (for no reason)

[MarKr]

Well, Warhawks, play some games, post some replays how much Panthers suck now, get some discussion going (based on experience, not theoretical value throwing) and it can all change.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I think TS doc is exactly where tanks should cost less than in other doctrines because they don't have fuel trade like WH. It is really difficult to save up for any tank bigger than PZ4, because PE is generally more expensive than WH, where you can hold the ground good enough with cheap volks, pioneers with MP40 and Stugs.

Also, Wespe seems so out of place in that doc, I think it badly needs rocket arty support. It's weird that Hotchkiss got Switched with Wespe, SE doc can by default field 210mm nebel that perform quite similar whilst TS lost an essential unit.

[MarKr]

Guys, please, try to stick to one topic per thread. I can already see this turning into a 5-page thread where everyone reacting to something someone else has said before and also randomly throws in some new idea. This always gets so cluttered that it is very hard to follow any solid ideas. We're not gonna read through such a mess when we're deciding what to tweak and change next if it's in individual posts, it is much easier to navigate through.

[Warhawks97]

I think TS doc is exactly where tanks should cost less than in other doctrines because they don't have fuel trade like WH. It is really difficult to save up for any tank bigger than PZ4, because PE is generally more expensive than WH, where you can hold the ground good enough with cheap volks, pioneers with MP40 and Stugs.

Also, Wespe seems so out of place in that doc, I think it badly needs rocket arty support. It's weird that Hotchkiss got Switched with Wespe, SE doc can by default field 210mm nebel that perform quite similar whilst TS lost an essential unit.

Which is true. So far i barely even managed to get a Panther in this doctrine. And if i have to get this far, i chose jagdpanther simply for its firepower advantage against pershings and churchills. But as long as i dont face RE or Armor doc, i dont have to go beyond Tigers and Jagdpanzer IV/70´s so far. Infantry, Tank IV´s and the new cheap Jagdpanzer IV/70´s are just good enough and offer a lot more tactical options.

Everything beyond that is just hell expensive to get, esspecially as PE where you have to pay a lot for everything you want.
And that doc does not have any res trade like BK or Prop doc.

Guys, please, try to stick to one topic per thread. I can already see this turning into a 5-page thread where everyone reacting to something someone else has said before and also randomly throws in some new idea. This always gets so cluttered that it is very hard to follow any solid ideas. We're not gonna read through such a mess when we're deciding what to tweak and change next if it's in individual posts, it is much easier to navigate through.

Sukin is just saying the truth here.
I havent build the Panther G in TS doc ever. 8 Cp and the build cost would have killed me. It was always better to get along with cheap Panzer IV´s and Jagdpanzer IV/70.
The Jagdpanzer IV/70 cost change was the best that ever happned to this doc actually. It does the job when supported properly. No need for Panthers atm.

Now, i dont see why is should build a 880/130 tank that has Tigers mobility and as much HP as the Panzer IV H/J in this doctrine when i can get a Jagdpanther for 850 MP and 150 fuel and with 800 MP, normal Panther mobility and the best gun in the game?

[Krieger Blitzer]

So much for

So please, play some matches, post your feedback (after you've played some games, please) and try not to freak out only based on some numbers listed here .

Anyway...

I said i did not have time YET.

However; i noticed Panther.G got significantly less HP now but without any price reduction in TS doc?? This tank costs 8 CP, so I would say the price now needs to become cheaper accordingly, perhaps around 780MP / 135 fuel.

Panther in TS doc wasn't made more expensive in last update and so it wasn't made chaper this update. Unlike BK doc, TS still has other, better tanks in its roster so TS is not dependent on fielding larger numbers of Panthers - also why the limit is there.

You reduced the HP for Panthers in all docs now.. not just Blitz doc! Thus, a price reduction is expected for all of them. Also, isn't Panther.G in TS doc actually 890MP / 155 fuel? Or is it 880MP / 130fuel as Hawks says ??

Regardless.. the price needs to go down either ways, this has nothing to do with what happened last update.

Also, what about the Luft Panther.D, currently it costs 830MP & 130 fuel.. it doesn't necessarily need to become as cheap as Blitz one, but surely not as expensive as now... i would say it could be something like 730MP & 115 fuel.

this one didn't get more expensive and also not cheaper. The roles of Panthers in BK doc and Luft doc are different so it is not needed to always adjust costs in both.

Their role is different.. yes, and their prices don't have to be exactly the same across the board, however.. you nerfed them across all docs now, not just in a particular doc. Or are you trying to tell me that you want the nerf applied in both TS doc & Luft doc for absolutely nothing in return?

[MarKr]

@Hawks: I could write here a wall of text on how "the truth" is often a highly subjective but I think I've done that before and you probably know what the point would be. So let's just say that Sukin expressed his OPINION and you share his point of view. So as I said - play some games, upload the replays that support your point of view and we can talk about changes. We won't make changes based on "I know what I'm doing, just trust me". Panzerfather had this approach, can you immagine what the game would have looked like if he had followed his suggestions without requiring some proof?

And I was also just saying that keeping threads focused on one topic is better for tracking what people think about each topic.
Just look at what's been brought up here so far:
1) cost of Panther in Luft and TS
2) Jumbo
3) Tulips
4) Speeds of Panthers in general
5) costs of tanks in entire PE
6) possible units combinations in PE
7) placement of wespe and Hotchkiss in PE
And those are just 4 posts from 3 players...
EDIT:
8) Replacing Panthers in Luft

[kwok]

Also, what’s the definition of “significant health change”?

The health was set in a way where panthers still take the same number of shots from all weapons to die. Like, why change the price if we don’t even know the Hp changes will do ANYTHING.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Aaah, so.. you actually want to nerf the Panther in Luft & TS doc (150 less HP) means easier to kill with Zookas & arty and more crits.. AND reduce their speed.. WITHOUT reducing the price in those docs.

So, you are nerfing them.. but not applying cost reduction, is that's what you are saying?

[Consti255]

i think the panther in the Luft doc is misplaced anyway.
I rather would see Jagdpanzer 4 /70 and Panzer 4 H/J in the doc.
Since you just need the Panther anyway for AT capabilitys.

[Krieger Blitzer]

i think the panther in the Luft doc is misplaced anyway.
I rather would see Jagdpanzer 4 /70 and Panzer 4 H/J in the doc.
Since you just need the Panther anyway for AT capabilitys.

I wouldn't mind that.

However, the G Panther needs a price reduction.. in TS doc.

[kwok]

i've kept a beta lobby open for the past 3 hours and monitored the lobby in general. only 1 person joined my game only to leave. i haven't seen any other lobbies up.

from a dev perspective, this topic is absolutely fruitless and will be ignored. i don't speak for all devs but i would bet they agree. feel free to keep discussing but dont expect this topic to change anything.


Just to respond to this:

Aaah, so.. you actually want to nerf the Panther in Luft & TS doc (150 less HP) means easier to kill with Zookas & arty and more crits.. AND reduce their speed.. WITHOUT reducing the price in those docs.

So, you are nerfing them.. but not applying cost reduction, is that's what you are saying?

No. There's a lot more at play here. The Panther G has the best armament of all panthers, the best armor of all panthers, and now a standardized speed. The HP nerf to the panther G is probably extremely negligible and so only requires a proportionate counterbalance. The cost was reduced via upkeep and nothing else for now.

[Krieger Blitzer]

from a dev perspective, this topic is absolutely fruitless and will be ignored. i don't speak for all devs but i would bet they agree. feel free to keep discussing but dont expect this topic to change anything.

i will cut it down to separate topics later, but only after i get the time to test out the BETA, as maybe i change my mind regarding some points, or new points might emerge into my head... So this topic anyways is just for initial brainstorming for now.

No. There's a lot more at play here. The Panther G has the best armament of all panthers, the best armor of all panthers, and now a standardized speed. The HP nerf to the panther G is probably extremely negligible and so only requires a proportionate counterbalance. The cost was reduced via upkeep and nothing else for now.

That's basically a "yes" to my question.. not a no.
Whether i think it makes sense or not, highly depends on the actual price of the G Panther in TS doc currently. As i honestly have no idea how much it costs (haven't used it ever in this doc since docs rework) but if the price is really 890MP / 155F then it will DEFINITELY need a price reduction.. however, if the price is 880MP / 130F then it could perhaps stay as it is.

[MarKr]

i will cut it down to separate topics later, but only after i get the time to test out the BETA, as maybe i change my mind regarding some points, or new points might emerge into my head... So this topic anyways is just for initial brainstorming for now.

OK, moving this to the Off topic section as it doesn't have any relevance until people actually have played the beta. Feel free to start separate threads on anything you find problematic after you've played a bit.

[kwok]

from a dev perspective, this topic is absolutely fruitless and will be ignored. i don't speak for all devs but i would bet they agree. feel free to keep discussing but dont expect this topic to change anything.

i will cut it down to separate topics later, but only after i get the time to test out the BETA, as maybe i change my mind regarding some points, or new points might emerge into my head... So this topic anyways is just for initial brainstorming for now.

No. There's a lot more at play here. The Panther G has the best armament of all panthers, the best armor of all panthers, and now a standardized speed. The HP nerf to the panther G is probably extremely negligible and so only requires a proportionate counterbalance. The cost was reduced via upkeep and nothing else for now.

That's basically a "yes" to my question.. not a no.
Whether i think it makes sense or not, highly depends on the actual price of the G Panther in TS doc currently. As i honestly have no idea how much it costs (haven't used it ever in this doc since docs rework) but if the price is really 890MP / 155F then it will DEFINITELY need a price reduction.. however, if the price is 880MP / 130F then it could perhaps stay as it is.

A dev has mentioned that I was being too nice on the forum. Sorry boys, the sass is coming out.

[Krieger Blitzer]

i will cut it down to separate topics later, but only after i get the time to test out the BETA, as maybe i change my mind regarding some points, or new points might emerge into my head... So this topic anyways is just for initial brainstorming for now.

OK, moving this to the Off topic section as it doesn't have any relevance until people actually have played the beta. Feel free to start separate threads on anything you find problematic after you've played a bit.

Alright.

@Kwok
I think we are all trying to be nice out here Kwoky, so don't lose your temper ma boy.. and you gotta know very well that i have got you under permanent surveillance each time you attempt to nerf the Panther

[kwok]

i will cut it down to separate topics later, but only after i get the time to test out the BETA, as maybe i change my mind regarding some points, or new points might emerge into my head... So this topic anyways is just for initial brainstorming for now.

OK, moving this to the Off topic section as it doesn't have any relevance until people actually have played the beta. Feel free to start separate threads on anything you find problematic after you've played a bit.

Alright.

@Kwok
I think we are all trying to be nice out here Kwoky, so don't lose your temper ma boy.. and you gotta know very well that i have got you under permanent surveillance each time you attempt to nerf the Panther

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[Consti255]

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