BK-player skills (PanzerFathers perspective)

[PanzarFather]

Hallo! I hope this post doesn't provoke players in a negative way, and for preventive purposes I should not even mention players who I think are below 6 in rank. The purpose of this post is to sum up my observations of certain players skills, and everyone is welcome to post replies if they agree or don't agree and what their perspective is, and we can talk about it.

This is points from 1 to 10.

1 - is people with extremly little experience
2 - PVE player-noobs
3 - PVP noobs
4 - Better noob
5 - Medium average
6 - Good player
7 - Very good player
8 - Expert
9 - Very expert
10 - Top players of BK

Here is some players and their skills to my observations (fall of 2020), people who I haven't included here is people I am not sure of where to put.
Non of this rankings are static, people can improve over time.

Rappatrix [Strong 6]
Mäglin [Strong 6]

4Fanatic [Weak 7]
MisterBean [Strong 7]
Theodisk [Strong 7]

BEREN [Weak 8]
(Me) PanzerFather [Weak 8]
hazee^^ [Strong 8]
Gladiatop [Strong 8]
Tarakancheg [Strong 8]

Wurf [weak 9]
AgentDunham [weak 9]
CroW_TaTToo [weak 9]
Ogro de asalo [weak 9]
Egungun [Strong 9]

Watman [Strong 10]
Aytraymond [Strong 10]


I know that some people will problebly categorize me as noob. Wurf is one of them who often call me noob, Theodisk does that too and if he would see this list he would not agree with it at all.
At the same time however, when push comes to shove in the matchmakingprocess before we start the game, both Theodisk and Wurf always want to make sure that they have the absolut best players at their team against me and most often my henchmen Gladiatop and hazee^^.

Let's say we are in a matchmakingprocess of a 3v3 game, and me, hazee^^ and Gladiatop are on axis. Theodisk and Wurf joins allies and last spot is open. Suddenly a medium-player joins the game with decent amount of experience. Wurf and Theodisk would scream UNBALANCED. How come? If I am a noob according to them, then this medium-player or even a good player should balance this out.
I have encounter this many times with people who call me noob, but when they are going to face me, they won't accept anyone who isn't expert on their own team. Their words say one thing, but their actions say something else.
I think, people who call me noob just try to do that to insult me, but they don't acctually believe that I am a noob.
So, that is why I put myself to be a "weak 8", since I believe I am pretty good after all, and I know most people think that when you see how they behave in the matchmakingprocess.

[Walderschmidt]

Lol how are Kwok and MenciusMoldbug (aka Dondreon) not on here?

Wald

[kwok]

Well I suck is probably why.

If you say "i hope it doesn't provoke people", what exactly are you trying to achieve when making these lists? (Not what are you trying to not achieve....)
All in all, as much as I suck I don't see the value in creating these lists only to instigate some flame war between players.

[autraymond]

how am I a 10 wth?

[PanzarFather]

Lol how are Kwok and MenciusMoldbug (aka Dondreon) not on here?

Wald

I haven't played that much with Kwok, so I don't know his lvl of skills. I assume he is pretty good, his advantage is also that he knows the power of each unit in detail since he program them.
Yes I saw him recently say that it is Mark that does the programming now, but he told me and Dreadleif that he did change values in corsix but wasn't able to update it, since Mark hade to take that decission.

[PanzarFather]

how am I a 10 wth?

Yes, I think you and Watman are problebly the best BK-players at this time.

[kwok]

Lol how are Kwok and MenciusMoldbug (aka Dondreon) not on here?

Wald

I haven't played that much with Kwok, so I don't know his lvl of skills. I assume he is pretty good, his advantage is also that he knows the power of each unit in detail since he program them.
Yes I saw him recently say that it is Mark that does the programming now, but he told me and Dreadleif that he did change values in corsix but wasn't able to update it, since Mark hade to take that decission.

Okay this isn't true AGAIN....
I said I'm not the sole decider/person who makes changes to the mod. In fact nobody (except maybe Wolf) is the sole decider/worker for the mod. In the context of our numerous conversations, I said MarKr is another one developer I used as an example who I worked with closely during the beta stages and that probably was the literal person who physically typed into the keyboards whatever specific change that was on the topic of conversation. Does that mean he was the sole decider? No, it was a team effort in general but it's not like he should type half the text and i type in the other half of the text.
That's not to say only me and MarKr are the sole developers on the team... It might be for that REALLY SPECIFIC example you and dreadleif brought up, it was just me and Markr for that really specific change. For example i know panzerblitz made his contributions as well among many others. There were changes over a loooong history of the mod before I was even on the dev team, they made changes as well.

I don't know how many times I have to say this... the dev TEAM is a TEAM. You and Dreadleif need to stop assigning imaginary designations to people and then using that image to further some conspiracy narrative. And most of of all, stop misquoting me out of context.

I understand YOU are probably not trying to twist words as much as Dreadleif is... contrary to Dreadleif, you probably don't mean harm by it and I beleive that. But it would be a great great help if you didn't speculate on what actually happens within the dev team. It distracts players in general from focusing on the actual substance of the mod (balance decisions, community building, etc.)

[PanzarFather]

Well I suck is probably why.

If you say "i hope it doesn't provoke people", what exactly are you trying to achieve when making these lists? (Not what are you trying to not achieve....)
All in all, as much as I suck I don't see the value in creating these lists only to instigate some flame war between players.

I don't think you suck, but I don't know much about your skills since I haven't played that much with you.
If I had made a list where I listed everyone I considered to be bad players, your argument that my post could be "created flamewars" would be more legitimate. The only thing I have done now is to list people who I think are good and up. If someone gets angry because, for example, I listed someone as a "strong 7" and that not everyone is a strong 10, it's very childish. I expect people to come up with their own assessments in this thread and discuss this.

[kwok]

Well I suck is probably why.

If you say "i hope it doesn't provoke people", what exactly are you trying to achieve when making these lists? (Not what are you trying to not achieve....)
All in all, as much as I suck I don't see the value in creating these lists only to instigate some flame war between players.

I don't think you suck, but I don't know much about your skills since I haven't played that much with you.
If I had made a list where I listed everyone I considered to be bad players, your argument that my post could be "created flamewars" would be more legitimate. The only thing I have done now is to list people who I think are good and up. If someone gets angry because, for example, I listed someone as a "strong 7" and that not everyone is a strong 10, it's very childish. I expect people to come up with their own assessments in this thread and discuss this.

Again I didn't ask what you didn't do or didn't want to do. What are you trying to accomplish by making this post? What is the point?

[PanzarFather]

Okay this isn't true AGAIN....
I said I'm not the sole decider/person who makes changes to the mod. In fact nobody (except maybe Wolf) is the sole decider/worker for the mod. In the context of our numerous conversations, I said MarKr is another one developer I used as an example who I worked with closely during the beta stages and that probably was the literal person who physically typed into the keyboards whatever specific change that was on the topic of conversation. Does that mean he was the sole decider? No, it was a team effort in general but it's not like he should type half the text and i type in the other half of the text.
That's not to say only me and MarKr are the sole developers on the team... It might be for that REALLY SPECIFIC example you and dreadleif brought up, it was just me and Markr for that really specific change. For example i know panzerblitz made his contributions as well among many others. There were changes over a loooong history of the mod before I was even on the dev team, they made changes as well.
I don't know how many times I have to say this... the dev TEAM is a TEAM. You and Dreadleif need to stop assigning imaginary designations to people and then using that image to further some conspiracy narrative. And most of of all, stop misquoting me out of context.

Ok, calm down. I don't want to misquote you on purpose. What I remember was that when Dreadleif asked you to program certain units, you said (what I can remember) that you can change values, but it doesn't matter because Mark has to approve it in later stage.
I can have remembered it wrong.

Point to my argument though is that you know each unit pretty good since you are a member of the devs, and by knowing that, you know which units to produce to counter other units more than others. That gives you an advantage and makes you a better player by default.
But I again, I don't have much experience with you, so I can't tell HOW good you are with my ranking-system. That is my reason why I haven't inlcuded you on the list.

[PanzarFather]

Again I didn't ask what you didn't do or didn't want to do. What are you trying to accomplish by making this post? What is the point?

I already stated that in my main-post on this thread.

The purpose of this post is to sum up my observations of certain players skills, and everyone is welcome to post replies if they agree or don't agree and what their perspective is, and we can talk about it.

[kwok]

Okay this isn't true AGAIN....
I said I'm not the sole decider/person who makes changes to the mod. In fact nobody (except maybe Wolf) is the sole decider/worker for the mod. In the context of our numerous conversations, I said MarKr is another one developer I used as an example who I worked with closely during the beta stages and that probably was the literal person who physically typed into the keyboards whatever specific change that was on the topic of conversation. Does that mean he was the sole decider? No, it was a team effort in general but it's not like he should type half the text and i type in the other half of the text.
That's not to say only me and MarKr are the sole developers on the team... It might be for that REALLY SPECIFIC example you and dreadleif brought up, it was just me and Markr for that really specific change. For example i know panzerblitz made his contributions as well among many others. There were changes over a loooong history of the mod before I was even on the dev team, they made changes as well.
I don't know how many times I have to say this... the dev TEAM is a TEAM. You and Dreadleif need to stop assigning imaginary designations to people and then using that image to further some conspiracy narrative. And most of of all, stop misquoting me out of context.

Ok, calm down. I don't want to misquote you on purpose. What I remember was that when Dreadleif asked you to program certain units, you said (what I can remember) that you can change values, but it doesn't matter because Mark has to approve it in later stage.
I can have remembered it wrong.

Yeah I understand, I edited my text because I recognize I don't think you're TRYING to misquote. If anything it's another character who is... and I feel like that probably skewed the conversation. And that constant spreading of "fake news" is really really distracting.
I edited to add the following:

I understand YOU are probably not trying to twist words as much as Dreadleif is... contrary to Dreadleif, you probably don't mean harm by it and I beleive that. But it would be a great great help if you didn't speculate on what actually happens within the dev team. It distracts players in general from focusing on the actual substance of the mod (balance decisions, community building, etc.)

In response to:

Again I didn't ask what you didn't do or didn't want to do. What are you trying to accomplish by making this post? What is the point?

I already stated that in my main-post on this thread.

The purpose of this post is to sum up my observations of certain players skills, and everyone is welcome to post replies if they agree or don't agree and what their perspective is, and we can talk about it.

Yeah but.... why? Like what's the point of comparing people? Who does it benefit? What is the expected outcome of doing this except that some people will feel offended?

[PanzarFather]

Yeah but.... why? Like what's the point of comparing people? Who does it benefit? What is the expected outcome of doing this except that some people will feel offended?

Yeah, maybe you are right that this isn't a good idea, I guess we have to wait and see. If many people feel very offended by this post you have my permission to delete it (yes, you don't have to say that you are dev and can do whatever you want and don't need my permission), I am saying that I can agree that this post should be deleted if people get super-provoked and feel offended because I don't want that.
However, my intentions when I created the thread is that people can throw in their own perspectives without anyone feeling uncomfortable.
People talk about other people's skills in matchmaking processes all the time, so I thought it would not be so dangerous to bring it up on the forum as well and talk about it, I what to read other peoples observations too. I hope I didn't offend you when I didn't even include you on my list. I also said in my main-post that some people are left out because I don't know where I would place them.

[Warhawks97]

whats the point of this thing again? Is that based again on your feeling or what are the criterias?

The list is flawed everywhere. I mean how do you even want say who is better?
Some are 1 vs 1 experts, others teamfighters. Then there are guys that play same few maps with same mate with same docs all day long and have some perfect strategy. Thats what i did with mates when i started BK and the majority of BK players belonged to that kind of players. Mostly total idiots but playing the same meta down on the same map with same mates. But if you managed to interrupt them just once or twice, they were essentially dead.

For example playing vs ogro and mates it was or is quite difficult when they took allies as long as you didnt have a way to interrupt their combos of off maps, CQC spawn, airplanes. You just break the momentum of these players and their entire strategy collapses and there is no plan B.

Then there are those that dont rush you down from the field but are highly adoptable. They can easily play all maps with all doctrines and can synergize with every other player using always other methods to win and which also have great patience.
Of those, yoi listed non.


Autry and Wat are often if not always in one team at a certain map as axis. I see them everytime i go online and their match open.
Maeglin and wurf also used to have their standard meta everytime. Wurf with his luftwaffe inf, maeglin used to camp with BK doc (prior to rework only using the super long range stuh and death camp the enemies to death).



So, i dont even know why i am answering to this. But i just feel its one of these topics that have actually no point except for throwing arround wild claim with no real explanation on what this judgment is based.

And i highly misstrust your "observation". Or did you ever watch replays in great numbers and analyzing them in detail over and over again? I dont think so.

Your observation is probably your feeling.



I see it like kwok. There is no point in having this topic at all. It doesnt accomplish anything and many players are simply forgotten.

[PanzarFather]

I see it like kwok. There is no point in having this topic at all. It doesnt accomplish anything and many players are simply forgotten.

Add more players to the list then. We can all make a good list together, based upon observations.

[MarKr]

Still the same question: why does this topic even exist? Yeah, you wrote there "to sum up your observations about players" but why? Why is there even a need to "rank" people like that? What productive results will this topic have (or hopes to achieve)?

[PanzarFather]

Still the same question: why does this topic even exist? Yeah, you wrote there "to sum up your observations about players" but why? Why is there even a need to "rank" people like that? What productive results will this topic have (or hopes to achieve)?

I already answered the question what the purpose of this topic is, I even stated it in the first main-post of this thread.
But if you all are so dissatisfied with it, I didn't achive what I wanted anyway, so you are welcome to delete the whole topic if you want.