Lessons and Ideas from Europe at War mod

[Warhawks97]

Since this topic popped up (viewtopic.php?f=27&t=4082) it did make me curious how this mod works and what ideas were brought in there.

As a pre-note, the game has lots of issues even if it looks awesome. Its completely different than BK in all regards, some better, some not. Like PE having Barracks from WH added while also having kampfgruppe and logistic company instead of adding the units from barracks to either of them and it also has no quick button to access them regardless of where your camera is.
Or a 50 mm AT gun shooting every 2 seconds and penetrating everything with 85 range is just plain OP.
Or that you can call in divisions of like 5 shermans for just 1200 MP and no fuel. In fact a lot is managed over call ins and PE can call in Panther Wave after Panther wave without any fuel like in vcoh. These are pretty bad things because fuel is thus only needed to reach the tec level but then getting all Tanks literally for free fuel.

Or that it still has vcoh vet system.

So its different and this is not a "what is better topic".
OP 50 mm AT gun, missing building buttons, totally screwed range brackets (worse than BK and it seems only a handfull of tanks like Panther have gotten better adjusted one.



However i am making a short list of what i really liked there and that could work even in BK.






1. Infantry Gameplay, inf support weapons and defenses:

Trenches:
Trenches can accomodate various units and easily a 8 men inf squad, 3 men HMG, Sniper: no problem. Trenches are way better than BK in this regard

Also there are defensive positions (for US) that are like a defensive dirt hole that can be upgraded with can cal 50 and that can accomodate other units. The cal 50 can be directed into any direction. It sets up and dismantles like an HMG and then shoots into another direction. Pretty cool stuff.

Combat Inf:
Squad Sizes are different. Basic inf is usually 8-9 men Strong. Volks are pretty basic with MP 40 as upgrade (and one starting weapon) but Faust as default weapon after reaching a certain Tec level.
The inf is also cheap to reinforce.
Better inf are usually 6 men Strong but cost less than in BK. Grens cost just 300 MP for instance.
Elite inf is also cheaper but has also good basic equipment. In PE the Heavy assault squad is 6 men strong for 260 MP and has 5 STG and 1 lmg at default but cost 45 per men to reinforce.

As for the Riflemen, they are much better than in BK. They are 9 men and super versatile later. They get Two BAR´s after 200 MP and 60 fuel as standard equipment.
On Top of that they can get Grease guns, Rifle Grenades and i think lmg 1919.
The supply Truck can later drop any weapon (zooks etc) that can be picked up.
That makes Basic Rifles to extremely good basic inf that can be fitted for any kind of engagment.


Support inf:
- Pioneers/Engineers and PE Grens are just 3 men strong and costing 130 MP and are quickly build. And thats great because their main task is to build stuff or doing specific jobs. That way its easy to complete your base, build and HMG nest, OP points, repairing stuff without having to think twice (esspecially as PE) to build a second squad or retreat one from the front to build your next building unit.
Also Pios/engis have SMG´s as default self defense weapon which makes a lot more sense.

The PE basic Grens later have 4 men. Their combat inf (Assault Pios, assault Grens always have 6 men).
But that made PE sooo much more enjoable to play.

Infantry Support Weapons:
Support weapons are cheap. HMG for 250 MP, Mortars no more than 280 MP.




2. Command and support Facilities and Units

Officers:
These are far better than in BK and there are different types. Sometimes normal single 150 MP officers like lieutnant. Then captain/officer that can supervise buildings (or call arty for WH. WH officer is basically as in BK). And finally larger 4 men squad officer units. Those can call in arty, Recon planes, Strafing runs that last up to two mins, smoke etc and have Recon ability to overview the battlfield and giving you a better view.. These are super forward support units.

Command Vehicles
Command Vehicles are non- doctrinal. They are radio Vehicles that can even be set up providing boosts to nearby tanks in a good radius but also have offensive/defensive tactics.

These are much better than Sluggish expensive support Tank IV´s in BK mod and BK doc which cost as much as another normal tank.

Forward command Posts:
Instead of officers placing stupid flags somewhere, there are Forward command Posts that can be build for 100 MP and some fuel. They act as retreat point and can even accomodate units. In danger you can put your officer squad inside that uses Battlefield overview and call in recon planes as well as strafing runs.
That is by far the best thing to implement command posts in conjunction with commanding officer units.


Supply and support Trucks:
This is epic and something i wish i had in BK.
I suggested or requested something like repair shops for US.
Now i found supply trucks that can be build in the supply yard for 50 MP and 10 fuel. They can drop weapons for infantry but also can be set up as a repair station.
2 or 4 Engineers spawn and repair vehicels and tanks quickly. Repairing tanks and vehicles for US and as CW is a pain, esspecially when playing non armor doc. You engis are rare, take long to repair and are usually away from tanks doing other tasks.
But this would solve all the god damn issues. Supply trucks are the best thing i saw in this mod.
A few axis docs can build an Sdkfz. 11 that can also set up as repair station.


3. Vehicles:

Recon Vehicles:
Vehicles in EaW are cheap and so are recon vehicles. Greyhound for 260 MP, Puma 280, Stuart 280 and so on. Even PE Mortar HT costs just 240 MP.
They can ofc get upgrades that cost MP, but the fact that you can get them for cheap is important. It makes them a lot more appealing to use, esspecially in numbers when combined with supply trucks and repair shops.

On Top they all have an ability called "Recon Element". That makes them immobile and units Like Greyhound need a Cal 50 gunner first, but you can extend the sight range by 20 or 30 to get a quick view arround.


Support Vehicles:
Aside from command Vehicles there are also units Like Geschützwagen and HT´s with 75 mm AT guns. They are also cheaper but work differently as in BK.


4. Tank and Anti Tank Warefare and Ambush
This is were the game really becomes another world.

Tanks:

Tanks are cheaper (600/85 for Panther, 350/60 for Sherman, 400/65 Panzer IV H, 340/60 for Stug, 300/55 for M10, 360/70 (?) for Jacks A and 450 for B version. After Mass-production Tank IV H costs 300/45.

But it might be that they cost more upkeep (felt like it).

Tank Warefare:

That one is huge. Tank have massive range, depending on gun. I saw fireflies shooting from range slike 80 and more and Panthers probably with 90-100 Range.

However, they can do that also while not moving and their own vision is poor. They can engage what attacks them as it becomes visible in the fog of war. But generally they are blind and while moving they can see only directly what happens arround them and their Range is decreased to like 45 Range!


Basically all tanks go into some sort of stationary mode once not moving and are able to provide long range fire support from where your enemie might not even see them. But if you use them as Tank to charge in you might run into a cheap counter and die quickly, even when having a Panther.

Which brings me to the Anti Tank warefare

Unlike in BK ambush abilities are rare. AT guns, JP IV and HMGs, Recons and Sniper can Camo.
But Ambush is usually "Shooting from the fog of War". Lure your enemie into well placed Guns, mounted on Vehicles or Tanks or simple AT guns.

The Jagdpanzer IV for example can hide like in BK but the Ambush system here is worse and pretty OP for this unit.
Its a toggle ability and once activated the Tank gets a camo net and once it stops driving gets invisible until it shoots or moves. Moving also means rotating so your ambush is gone as soon as it rotates.

AT guns can hide and move but heavy AT guns are only available on Tanks or as an emplacment which in my opinion should also be done for BK mod.


APCR rounds:
These rounds are are. I saw them only for 57 mm AT gun, Nashorn/Jackson or as doctrinal upgrade in the Tank destroyer doctrine.
But i like that more than special APCR rounds being thrown arround everywhere for low cost. They were not given to everyone. So either CP unlock or Building upgrades would grant access to it or Tank destroyer have them.





5. Tec System and doctrinal design:

Doctrines:
The doctrines arent so well thought than BK once or the idea behind them is just different. However i do like the fact that docs are less focused on unlocking only units via CP, but instead units get often unlocked by doc picking alone while unlocks either boosts the stuff (or unlocks call in support).

BK docs should focus less on unlocking units. Tank IV H/J, 76 shermans and M10 ´s and Stugs should be common core units while stuff like Panthers unlocked right after doc pick. Thus docs can be filled more with support stuff (off map arty strikes, Tank arty call in, off map smoke barrage, Planes).


Tec system:

The tec system is a lot more free than in BK. WH for instance can unlock all HQ unlocks without having any building. US can get Tank depot or Motorpool after Supply yard is up.
And thats great. However these tecs require a lot of fuel.

That means that this game delays Panthers a lot more behind Fuel/MP tec cost rather Than CP costs which is better because it forces a better ressource managment and ressource controle. You cant just sit there, defend one fuel point, tec up in no time and build stuff just to get few CP needed to get an "Insta Win Panther Ace".



Priest/Wespe/Grille/Hummel/Jacks/Hellcat/JP IV/Nashorn/Jagdpanther/Pershing/Tiger/Ranger/Storms/Fallis/King Tiger/105 Howitzers/88/AT gun nests/Wurfrahmen 40 all require a CP cost unlock afterall.


Just BK overdid it with unit unlock by locking Panzer IV H/J, Stugs/76 Shermans/Panthers and Stugs behind CP payrolls.
Instead certain abilties can be locked behind unlocks (e.g. APCR rounds, Camo via "Camo net" unlocks and so on).



6: Reconassaince


Recon Abilties:
- "Recon element" for Reconassaince Vehicles that enables them to extend sight range by a bit.
- "Advanced Warning" for AT guns so that they can see targets earlier by themselves
- "Battlefield overwatch" for Officers
- "Recon planes" can be called by Officers for low cost.

Recon unit:
The recon unit ist a 145 MP 3 men squad with Rifles and SMG and upgradable with weapons. They go automatically into camo once in cover and start overwatching the area. No Crawl Ability.

You wont have Ninja recons crawling unseen to the enemie base. Instead you have lots of recon Abilties for various units. If you want to see further behind the lines, use recon planes.


7. Off map Arty and Planes.

Planes are better in EaW:
Usually you have not a strafe (axis do have single Me 109 bomb runs for instance) but instead you mark an area for arieal attacks. There are various types reaching from starfing all inf in the area for the next 2 min to mixed attacks with rockets, strafes and Bombs against inf/Tanks/Emplacments.

The MG strafes are not single all killing strafes but many from different direction that all deal some damage, kill some stuff and pinning them down.
Bombs and rockets are brutal.
However, since everything is just cheaper, this isnt a big deal as in BK where your HMG and Mortar HT is irreplacable due to their cost.


The cooldowns are shorter (like 1-2 mins), so as long as the ammo is available you can push your attack with lots of support.


THIS is not a suggestion thread . Thats why its in the "Other mod" Section. Its just something i learned from another mod that could potentially find its way into BK mod.


The most interesting parts:

1. Supply Trucks that can be set up anywhere and which then repair Tanks and vehicles with advanced repairs.
2. Tanks have shorter Range and poor sight range while moving but more when not moving. They can get used as ranged fire support or as damage sponge.
3. Tank ambush is not as common and requires certain units or docs
4. Better tec system
5. More units as default units available.
6. Cheap counters (E.G 360 MP jacks, 480 MP Nashorn), plenty of off map support.
7. Interesting command facilities and units.