I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

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MEFISTO
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Joined: 18 Jun 2016, 21:15

I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

Postby MEFISTO » 06 Oct 2019, 23:17

Why I can't make Panther "A" and panther "G" after upgrade my heavy Armor facility? in Bk dock you have to pick before start the game what kind of Panther you will make it does make sense for me, If I don't have fuel I will go for my early panther "D" but If I have the resource I will upgrade my armor facility and will go for my panther "A" or a totally upgrade panther "G" and as a reward you can keep a veteran panther "G". I feel the same with terror where you should be able to have a tiger "E" early version and after upgrade your heavy armor facility will have Tiger "E" late version with the tiger phobia ability and your As tiger and King tiger.
Also I would like to talk about BK dock where the call in was brutally nerf, before the beta changes it was 850mp with very good stuff that's true but now you have a PIII nerf with a grenadiers for 700mp, is this a joke? and at some point I feel like shermans 76 are much better now (I love it) it fair that a 76mm gun has good fire power. About the new volkstrum squad I think they cost nothing and do nothing, they're on the border where if you buff them they will become in something to strong for the price or if you live it like that it's going to be a MP wasting, I also would like to see in this Doctrine a kind of veteran squad like PE squad to escort your tiger or king tiger it looks funny volksgranadiers fighting by your heavy tigers and also because we are trying to make a game "well rounded" where allies now have good infantry and 90mm gun to fight heavy armors ( I love it, It's more fair for allies) Yes I feel like Propaganda doc needs a heavy squad since Infantry has rangers and 90mm gun , Airborne has Paratroopers air strike and 90mm gun (not sure about it but I guess they have it I have been working to much I haven't try airborne yet) and Armor has combat engineers with good upgrades. I just want to see a game fair and well rounded.
Infantry= excellent infantry squads+excellent artillery+90mm gun to destroy heavy armors
Airborne=very good infantry (excellent with veterancy)+very good air support+drops support+90mm gun (not sure about 90mm jakson but I would like to see it here to well round the doctrine) or the Jumbo sherman 76mm
Armor=Excellent 90mm Armors+ good artillery+good infantry
wherma: defensive doctrine= very good artillery+ excellent TH's+good infantry with sectors buff and etc...
BK dock=excellent infantry+very good armors+good artillery
propaganda= excellent armors+very good artillery+.....Infantry.....or volkstrums :shock: :D. That's what I think. And I am really nervous abut the BK dock call in, 700mp for nothing.

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mofetagalactica
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Re: I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

Postby mofetagalactica » 07 Oct 2019, 07:40

I would be totally up to support the de-limitation of variants and types of tanks for each doctrine.
I would like to have the option to chose in-game between jumbo75/jumbo76, jumbo/jackson, early types of pz4, stug3/4, more versions of tigers to chose, more versions to panthers to chose, super pershing or pershing ace, etc. This feels too much like cuting content for the game like if where a DLC lmao

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Warhawks97
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Re: I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

Postby Warhawks97 » 07 Oct 2019, 14:21

Having a single elite squad as tiger escort wouldnt be that bad. But idk how that would play out when there is Tiger, Sturmtiger and the debuffs on allied units.

Perhaps i would rise the MP build cost a bit for Tiger I and add a single SS squad with unit limit one and 500 MP call-in cost from officer.

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mofetagalactica
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Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Re: I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

Postby mofetagalactica » 08 Oct 2019, 02:19

Warhawks97 wrote:Having a single elite squad as tiger escort wouldnt be that bad. But idk how that would play out when there is Tiger, Sturmtiger and the debuffs on allied units.

Perhaps i would rise the MP build cost a bit for Tiger I and add a single SS squad with unit limit one and 500 MP call-in cost from officer.


What about if we just make the officer a full combat squad with 6 men and weapon upgrades such as ghewer and stg? That would look acordingly of what the doc propposes wich would be militia fighting along the last remains of regular troops (since its pretty weird to see the officer squad get into combat, everyone just leave it behind the volksturms to get the buff at long distance lol) i think this would heavily encourage the use of the officer paired with fewer volkssturms instead of pure spam of them.

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Warhawks97
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Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

Postby Warhawks97 » 08 Oct 2019, 13:30

mofetagalactica wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:Having a single elite squad as tiger escort wouldnt be that bad. But idk how that would play out when there is Tiger, Sturmtiger and the debuffs on allied units.

Perhaps i would rise the MP build cost a bit for Tiger I and add a single SS squad with unit limit one and 500 MP call-in cost from officer.


What about if we just make the officer a full combat squad with 6 men and weapon upgrades such as ghewer and stg? That would look acordingly of what the doc propposes wich would be militia fighting along the last remains of regular troops (since its pretty weird to see the officer squad get into combat, everyone just leave it behind the volksturms to get the buff at long distance lol) i think this would heavily encourage the use of the officer paired with fewer volkssturms instead of pure spam of them.



I am against it for the same reason why i dont like snipers inside squads like the AB HQ squad. When i get an officer unit i do want to pay for an officer, not for an hybrid officer/combat unit that costs a lot due to its multifunctionaility. The cost would go up to like 500 or 600 MP. The old Knight Cross Holders (KCH) also boosted nearby inf, had good weapons and stuff. But since it did cost this much (660 MP) no one build anything aside from KcH´s. So its ability to boost nearby inf was an usless ability simply because there was no additional infantry at all. So this officer squad would cost alone tons of MP and thus weakening all other inf in this doctrine. I dont even like that this squad has gone up in cost to 300 MP. Its an important asset to the entire infantry gameplay.


For me, the few times i played AB doc, it discouraged me to pay 680 MP for a single HQ squad. I did need it earlier to boost my existing 101st squads but couldnt wait or didnt want to wait or risk 680 MP for a single squad. The 400 MP for the BK leader squad is the limit i would like to pay for an officer/leader unit. And also its a huge loss when a random arty strike rips the entire squad appart. Thus i prefer cheaper but therefore more units which all do their specific jobs. One for figthing, one for support, one for providing fighting boosts rather than one super expensive unit that does all that alone. It largely hampers your tactical capabilties. Its less "all or nothing" principle and shares the risk a lot better.

CGarr
Posts: 102
Joined: 16 Apr 2018, 21:39

Re: I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

Postby CGarr » 12 Oct 2019, 18:53

Warhawks97 wrote:
mofetagalactica wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:Having a single elite squad as tiger escort wouldnt be that bad. But idk how that would play out when there is Tiger, Sturmtiger and the debuffs on allied units.

Perhaps i would rise the MP build cost a bit for Tiger I and add a single SS squad with unit limit one and 500 MP call-in cost from officer.


What about if we just make the officer a full combat squad with 6 men and weapon upgrades such as ghewer and stg? That would look acordingly of what the doc propposes wich would be militia fighting along the last remains of regular troops (since its pretty weird to see the officer squad get into combat, everyone just leave it behind the volksturms to get the buff at long distance lol) i think this would heavily encourage the use of the officer paired with fewer volkssturms instead of pure spam of them.



I am against it for the same reason why i dont like snipers inside squads like the AB HQ squad. When i get an officer unit i do want to pay for an officer, not for an hybrid officer/combat unit that costs a lot due to its multifunctionaility. The cost would go up to like 500 or 600 MP. The old Knight Cross Holders (KCH) also boosted nearby inf, had good weapons and stuff. But since it did cost this much (660 MP) no one build anything aside from KcH´s. So its ability to boost nearby inf was an usless ability simply because there was no additional infantry at all. So this officer squad would cost alone tons of MP and thus weakening all other inf in this doctrine. I dont even like that this squad has gone up in cost to 300 MP. Its an important asset to the entire infantry gameplay.


For me, the few times i played AB doc, it discouraged me to pay 680 MP for a single HQ squad. I did need it earlier to boost my existing 101st squads but couldnt wait or didnt want to wait or risk 680 MP for a single squad. The 400 MP for the BK leader squad is the limit i would like to pay for an officer/leader unit. And also its a huge loss when a random arty strike rips the entire squad appart. Thus i prefer cheaper but therefore more units which all do their specific jobs. One for figthing, one for support, one for providing fighting boosts rather than one super expensive unit that does all that alone. It largely hampers your tactical capabilties. Its less "all or nothing" principle and shares the risk a lot better.


I personally don't like the AB command squad due to the point you just described, but I think the difference between having an expensive command squad in US AB and having one in the new terror doc is that the new terror doc has access to extremely cheap infantry so the manpower drain wouldn't be as heavy, and currently I believe the Vsturms need the extra help due to how hilariously bad they are at everything except map coverage. It's painful to use them for anything other than defense from within a trench or building, as they just drop like flies if you do anything else with them yet for some reason they have to pay both a CP cost and muni for their somewhat useless weapon upgrades (good luck closing distance with them without smoke and good luck doing anything after the smoke disperses against units that are either mechanized or geared for short range fights). 680 MP is a lot but could possibly be justified, around 500 MP sounds more reasonable

I believe that if a heavy command squad was implemented in the way I described with my last reply to the below post, it'd be easily worth the high cost but wouldn't necessarily be overpowered due to being much less mobile than other inf units. It would act purely as a defensive oriented fire support unit that has an officer aura and the ability to bolster nearby infantry's durability at the cost of firepower (for holding out the last few seconds until stronger support arrives, maybe a 15 second duration ability with a long cooldown and 50 muni cost that provides inf with 0.25 incoming accuracy modifier at the cost of losing 50% of their firepower followed by another 7 seconds of reduced firepower with no buff to represent time needed for both the initial group and newly arrived support units to reassess the situation). It'd fit well within the doctrine, as it isn't a spammable elite inf unit, instead serving as a defensive hardpoint on the map for a doctrine that is otherwise limited to capping around / avoiding enemy troops and hoping the enemy doesn't think to bring any sort of light vehicles to shred the vsturms. The decreased mobility would prevent it from doing much outside of defending an area, especially late game with the prevalence of HE equipped vehicles in the allied roster.

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CGarr
Posts: 102
Joined: 16 Apr 2018, 21:39

Re: I feel depressed any time I see Wherma heavy armor facility

Postby CGarr » 12 Oct 2019, 19:21

Warhawks97 wrote:Having a single elite squad as tiger escort wouldnt be that bad. But idk how that would play out when there is Tiger, Sturmtiger and the debuffs on allied units.

Perhaps i would rise the MP build cost a bit for Tiger I and add a single SS squad with unit limit one and 500 MP call-in cost from officer.


Idk how balanced this would be late game since late game in general tends to be a bit of a clusterfuck in terms of what units people have on the field due to the effects of map control becoming much more prominent (allied player's late game might come much quicker than wehrmacht player's late game if he manages to take advantage of his early game domination in terms of offensive firepower). I'd have to see it in action but I'd assume it wouldn't be unbalanced, early to midgame. End game might be a different story though, with all those top tier units in one doctrine but the unit cap on the heavy inf squad might make up for it. I wouldn't be against this as an alternative to the above suggested heavy command squad.


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