Forgotten USA light tanks

Do you have a balancing problem or do you want to make a suggestion for the game? You are at the right place.
User avatar
mofetagalactica
Posts: 310
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby mofetagalactica » 01 Nov 2018, 22:26

Mostly about the M24 - Chaffe and the Stuart, I feel like these units are often forgotten and peopple avoid building them, ¿i wonder why?
¿is this is it the price M24: 400 MP - 35 F and Stuart : 340Mp 30F ?
¿The time that they come out around when stugs are in the field?
¿Or somekind of damage/agility/armor that they lack off?

Please i wanna have some opinions on these "early" tanks, and why peopple dosn't use them.

kwok
Posts: 1335
Joined: 29 Mar 2015, 05:22

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby kwok » 01 Nov 2018, 22:30

I use them when I have enough fuel lead and anticipate a puma spam or when I’m desperate to take out pumas/mortar halftracks. Beyond that, because of the axis tendency to rush heavy tanks they’re pretty much worthless. But latest rear armor changes might make them popular

User avatar
Jalis
Posts: 463
Joined: 25 Nov 2014, 04:55
Location: Canada

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby Jalis » 01 Nov 2018, 22:36

Chaffee become available. Wait one minute to build the 2nd motorpool and you will have a more sturdy M4 Sherman just of 5 more fuel. Right ?

There is simply no room for it in the time scale nor in the account book.

yser
Posts: 25
Joined: 10 Aug 2017, 02:18

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby yser » 01 Nov 2018, 23:03

cause they costly for nothing why 400mp for m24!!!?
brain 57mm halftrack and can do the work just 250MP

123nick
Posts: 6
Joined: 03 May 2017, 01:08

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby 123nick » 01 Nov 2018, 23:10

maybe the stuart should be available earlier, or give the chafee HE toggle.

User avatar
MarKr
Team Member
Posts: 2478
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 19:17
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby MarKr » 01 Nov 2018, 23:20

The tanks are more expensive than HTs because the tanks have more HP, better armor and (sort of) better firepower. The Chaffee has same gun as M4 Sherman so it can easily kill HTs (especially if used from camo with the bonuses). The Stuart has 37mm gun, which is nothing extra but because of its armor, it can withstand shots from 37mm and 28mm guns (early Axis HTs) while they cannot deflect the 37mm shots, now it also has the HE mode without buying ammo upgrade so it can be used against infantry.

So the light tanks are better than Axis early HTs but worse than Axis medium vehicles. This means that if they come sooner, they will be able to largely negate most stuff that Axis have, if they come later, they are easy target for most stuff that Axis have. It is hard to find some good place for them.
Image

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 3084
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby Warhawks97 » 01 Nov 2018, 23:40

MarKr wrote:The tanks are more expensive than HTs because the tanks have more HP, better armor and (sort of) better firepower. The Chaffee has same gun as M4 Sherman so it can easily kill HTs (especially if used from camo with the bonuses). The Stuart has 37mm gun, which is nothing extra but because of its armor, it can withstand shots from 37mm and 28mm guns (early Axis HTs) while they cannot deflect the 37mm shots, now it also has the HE mode without buying ammo upgrade so it can be used against infantry.


Armor? they dont stand 28 mm, can get pened by 37. WH has AT squad anyway with guranteed pen so idk what this armor can do currently.
Firepower? It takes two hits to kill a HT... 75 mm HT can oneshot in return.

Vs Puma with 50 mm? Its two shots for stuart vs oneshot for the Puma... Puma wins.
Mobility? not stuarts strenght.

Chaffe? Sometimes funny as ambush unit but 400 MP? A stug is the same just a lot more better due to its pen power.

User avatar
MarKr
Team Member
Posts: 2478
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 19:17
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby MarKr » 02 Nov 2018, 00:12

Warhawks97 wrote:Armor? they dont stand 28 mm, can get pened by 37. WH has AT squad anyway with guranteed pen so idk what this armor can do currently.
How is it possible that people used to say that Recce is sooooo vital for CW because it can deflect 37mm and 28mm shots and at the same time Chaffee and Stuart are crap, while they have the same armor type? I mean, if it works for Recce, same applies to these two. The GrB39 has guaranteed penetration but takes at least 3 hits to kill them so you can retreat if they attack you (unless they manage to immobilize you ofcourse).

Also notice that I wrote "it CAN withstand 37mm and 28mm shots" not "it is immune to 37mm and 28mm shots".
Warhawks97 wrote:Firepower? It takes two hits to kill a HT... 75 mm HT can oneshot in return.
Again - I said "sort of better firepower" so yes, it depends on the target, if there are 75mm HTs, they can one-shot these tanks, if there are 37mm or 28mm things, the chaffee is arguably better.

Warhawks97 wrote:Vs Puma with 50 mm? Its two shots for stuart vs oneshot for the Puma... Puma wins.
Because Puma has 50mm gun and Stuart 37mm? Giving the most contrastive examples does not speak about the average situation you will encounter :roll:
Warhawks97 wrote:Chaffe? Sometimes funny as ambush unit but 400 MP? A stug is the same just a lot more better due to its pen power.
Having light tanks for the price of a HT will lead to people screaming "BS!!!!!!" again. As I said - hard to place these tanks somewhere.
Image

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 3084
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Nov 2018, 00:26

MarKr wrote:How is it possible that people used to say that Recce is sooooo vital for CW because it can deflect 37mm and 28mm shots and at the same time Chaffee and Stuart are crap, while they have the same armor type? I mean, if it works for Recce, same applies to these two. The GrB39 has guaranteed penetration but takes at least 3 hits to kill them so you can retreat if they attack you (unless they manage to immobilize you ofcourse).


Also notice that I wrote "it CAN withstand 37mm and 28mm shots" not "it is immune to 37mm and 28mm shots".Again - I said "sort of better firepower" so yes, it depends on the target, if there are 75mm HTs, they can one-shot these tanks, if there are 37mm or 28mm things, the chaffee is arguably better.



You really ask this?

1. It does fit in the unit composition of Boys AT that deny enemie vehicles such as 28 mm etc.
2. It comes earlier
3. Its cal 50 had good accuracy unlike US cal 50
4. It got usefull abilties.
5. Can detect hidden units.

So Stuart is like churchill, a tec based advantage when you rush it.

So the entire unit compostion was and is different and no, it does not deflect 28 mm.... 2-3 or 4 hits and recce is dead.

Because Puma has 50mm gun and Stuart 37mm? Giving the most contrastive examples does not speak about the average situation you will encounter :roll:


Yes, so Puma "got it". When it makes no difference if 30 or 50 mm armor due to the weapons fielded, go mobility and firepower. Puma does it and costs less.




Having light tanks for the price of a HT will lead to people screaming "BS!!!!!!" again. As I said - hard to place these tanks somewhere.



well, the one or other HT is overpriced anyway. We also ask about something like 20 MP less for stuart and perhaps 30 for chaffe (and then when tank depot upgrade is lowered of course)


Also HT´s have firepower in return for weaker armor (which at the end doesnt change much).

User avatar
MarKr
Team Member
Posts: 2478
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 19:17
Location: Czech Republic

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby MarKr » 02 Nov 2018, 01:01

Warhawks97 wrote:You really ask this?

1. It does fit in the unit composition of Boys AT that deny enemie vehicles such as 28 mm etc.
2. It comes earlier
3. Its cal 50 had good accuracy unlike US cal 50
4. It got usefull abilties.
5. Can detect hidden units.
Maybe first read what I said? Or was it written so badly that the main point was not clear? It was about the "Recce can deflect Axis early AT" or perhaps "doesn't die to one shot from Axis early AT" which was often described as important feature and since they have same armor, this would be the same for Stuart and Chaffee. I thought it was clear because the post quoted your post where you spoke strictly about armor. So it was not about abilities and overall unit composition of a faction, only about the survivability of the unit and in that case only the point number is relevant.
Image

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 3084
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Nov 2018, 01:12

ok, yeah, it used to be... but it never deflected 28 mm... In fact the 28 mm is a hard counter. The Boys are needed to keep the recce alive in this enviroment. US dont have that+ counterparts have more firepower (let it be HT with 75mm, Puma wit 75/50 mm etc).

The Greyhound is always the better choice bc it doesnt even try to rely on armor, comes earlier and has the speed to keep alive.

The stuart could perhaps come without the motorpool upgrade required? idk. PE has counter vehicles avaialble and Wh the AT squad so counters at that time exist.

The New BK Champion
Posts: 170
Joined: 11 Feb 2018, 22:09

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby The New BK Champion » 02 Nov 2018, 03:20

Chaffie is a very good unit and I build it my every second game as US, hands off chaffie!!

User avatar
mofetagalactica
Posts: 310
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby mofetagalactica » 02 Nov 2018, 03:30

The New BK Champion wrote:Chaffie is a very good unit and I build it my every second game as US, hands off chaffie!!


"every second game" what? ah troll lol

The New BK Champion
Posts: 170
Joined: 11 Feb 2018, 22:09

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby The New BK Champion » 02 Nov 2018, 04:16

No, I am serious. Chaffie is a great breathru tank, when axis don't expect it. It has a decent HE and can pen even stug. I often pick it over Greyhound

User avatar
Warhawks97
Posts: 3084
Joined: 23 Nov 2014, 21:45
Location: Germany

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Nov 2018, 21:03

The Greyhound comes sometimes just fast enough to surprise the enemies before the proper defense is up. This time between upgrading motorpool is the one that decides between a 50 mm being readily deployed or not. I often manage to suprise 50 mm AT with greyhound on its way to the frontline. 1 min later and it would have been deployed already and knocking out chaffe or stuart.

I tried the stuart in my last game instead going for the greyhound and in the replay i saw that it was exactly this 1-2 minute delay compared to greyhound which gave axis time to put a AT gun up and killing my stuart.

User avatar
mofetagalactica
Posts: 310
Joined: 30 Jan 2017, 11:15

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby mofetagalactica » 05 Nov 2018, 00:54

Revive

User avatar
Death_Kitty
Posts: 44
Joined: 15 Apr 2017, 18:20

Re: Forgotten USA light tanks

Postby Death_Kitty » 05 Nov 2018, 04:14

I mean, the issue is is that by the time you can get an allied LT on the field, axis has Puma, HT, sometimes pak/rocket AT...Its not so much a fault of the chaffe or Stuart as it is just axis outclassing allies in terms of quality at every stage of the game except for maybe at the very beginning.

The solution is simple: delay axis progression/tech up. Is anyone going to do that: no. So allied LT stays useless.
As for buffing them; I could not get the Sherman 76 buffed, so LT is out of the question.


Return to “Balancing & Suggestions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests