Me (Terror) and David Stirling (Luft)
VS
Allies
Kwok (Air) and Flash (Armor)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reeZXziX5as
Both teams were voice chatting on Discord, enjoy!

Warhawks97 wrote:Min 33:25: A strafe kills Tanks? or only tanks with open top?
Warhawks97 wrote:Edit II: 49:45: Satchel doesnt destroy an emplacment? I mean isnt satchels sole role to destroy emplacments?
Warhawks97 wrote:Edit:
How quickly got the medium tank Phase skipped? After 23 mins the first two panthers were on the way. So a short battle with easy eights and stugs took place and hello heavy tanks. Soon followed by jackson and pershing as counter. The only mediums existing were just for anti inf combat. Isnt it some sort of proof why the changes in Beta version are necessary?
MarKr wrote:Heavies were most of the time nobrainers and people tried to get them as fast as possible. This was because these units were very good: medium tanks couldn't usually do jack against them and the only real counter to them were enemy heavies or late-game offmap abilities (arty/planes).
Tiger1996 wrote:
Light armored vehicles, open top tanks.. and Jumbo ShermansNot sure why Jumbos are in the list, but they are!
Well, let's not forget.. this was a high resources game!
You see; it's all about this statement...MarKr wrote:Heavies were most of the time nobrainers and people tried to get them as fast as possible. This was because these units were very good: medium tanks couldn't usually do jack against them and the only real counter to them were enemy heavies or late-game offmap abilities (arty/planes).
So, I would question you back... Hawks.
How many times have you also seen SP, KT, Tigers and Pershings die instantly without scoring any kills?
I would say that heavy tanks in Bk Mod are pretty balanced.. and are only effective in the hands of good players.
Thus, any changes in this field.. must be taken with extreme care.
Warhawks97 wrote:Tiger1996 wrote:
So, I would question you back... Hawks.
How many times have you also seen SP, KT, Tigers and Pershings die instantly without scoring any kills?
I would say that heavy tanks in Bk Mod are pretty balanced.. and are only effective in the hands of good players.
Thus, any changes in this field.. must be taken with extreme care.
at least not by medium tanks or only in very rare cases and with negativ cost efficiency for mediums. And everything else is the same. You lose a tiger to arty? There were sherman armadas that perished without anyone even taking notice of it. When like 20 of them died in a game without anyone of them achieving anything then nobody talked about it. The ammount of res that got wasted there without having anything achieved is quite the same. The only difference: People never cared for it. Nobody wrote "Hey, my hummel just blew up a sherman (or two or three in a barrage)". But everybody shouted out: "Heavy down!" whenver KT/SP/JP died.
So its just about what people realize and what they dont. Our brain is like a filter and the mediums or deaths of mediums got filtered out and kept unnoticed. Even when a single Hetzer knocked out two shermans it kept unnoticed, even when their combined cost may have been as high as those of a Panther (at least MP wise).
Warhawks97 wrote:One thing i saw is that you spend 2 cp on storms and then 2 on tank IV.
When i play BK doc (or other docs= i wait as long as possible untill i get 4-5 cp unless there is a good situation in which a quick house deployment of storms or a quick tank IV J usage could end a game.
The reason is simple. When you think you will need inf you get all boosts right away I dont unlock anything too early untill the situation demands it. If you think you need tanks you can unlock tanks + boosts.
I wonder why players are often so eager to unlock stuff right when they can. Holding back CP´s is often smarter.
Like when you get the stug you could have got a tank IV J already.
Going vs americans while having fuel is usually automatically Tank IV/Puma/Stug and Bk doc. There is nothing they can do about it in this early stage except hiding behind a 57 mm and hoping for lots of luck.
The tank IV H/J is a real pain for US in this stage of the game.
VS CW its quite often a combo of stug and inf (grens storms) instead tank IV.
Two tank IV´s at the time you lost the stug (you could have had two tank IV´s if not even a thrid in production would have steamroled the entire side. I mean even for the loss of a tank IV and a second damaged, you would have taken the initiative as your inf engaged the AT vehicles shortly after. With your res income on your side you could have replaced the losses of the advance.
When you check your res pool at min 18. The US would have had nothing to deal with the ammount of tank IV spam. Sure, the losses by the plane were high but didnt happen if more tank IV´s would have cleared the fields.
Min 33:25: A strafe kills Tanks? or only tanks with open top?
Edit:
How quickly got the medium tank Phase skipped? After 23 mins the first two panthers were on the way. So a short battle with easy eights and stugs took place and hello heavy tanks. Soon followed by jackson and pershing as counter. The only mediums existing were just for anti inf combat. Isnt it some sort of proof why the changes in Beta version are necessary?
Edit II: 49:45: Satchel doesnt destroy an emplacment? I mean isnt satchels sole role to destroy emplacments?
Shanks wrote:Warhawks97 wrote:One thing i saw is that you spend 2 cp on storms and then 2 on tank IV.
When i play BK doc (or other docs= i wait as long as possible untill i get 4-5 cp unless there is a good situation in which a quick house deployment of storms or a quick tank IV J usage could end a game.
The reason is simple. When you think you will need inf you get all boosts right away I dont unlock anything too early untill the situation demands it. If you think you need tanks you can unlock tanks + boosts.
I wonder why players are often so eager to unlock stuff right when they can. Holding back CP´s is often smarter.
Like when you get the stug you could have got a tank IV J already.
Going vs americans while having fuel is usually automatically Tank IV/Puma/Stug and Bk doc. There is nothing they can do about it in this early stage except hiding behind a 57 mm and hoping for lots of luck.
The tank IV H/J is a real pain for US in this stage of the game.
VS CW its quite often a combo of stug and inf (grens storms) instead tank IV.
Two tank IV´s at the time you lost the stug (you could have had two tank IV´s if not even a thrid in production would have steamroled the entire side. I mean even for the loss of a tank IV and a second damaged, you would have taken the initiative as your inf engaged the AT vehicles shortly after. With your res income on your side you could have replaced the losses of the advance.
When you check your res pool at min 18. The US would have had nothing to deal with the ammount of tank IV spam. Sure, the losses by the plane were high but didnt happen if more tank IV´s would have cleared the fields.
Min 33:25: A strafe kills Tanks? or only tanks with open top?
Edit:
How quickly got the medium tank Phase skipped? After 23 mins the first two panthers were on the way. So a short battle with easy eights and stugs took place and hello heavy tanks. Soon followed by jackson and pershing as counter. The only mediums existing were just for anti inf combat. Isnt it some sort of proof why the changes in Beta version are necessary?
Edit II: 49:45: Satchel doesnt destroy an emplacment? I mean isnt satchels sole role to destroy emplacments?
when are you going to play a pvp? upload a repeat, I want to see a game of yours, if you can
Shanks wrote:It's true, I left the game fast ... generally I do not waste time when the game is ultra unbalanced and my teammates lose in 5 min, it's the worst, I do not want to play an artificial extension ... I really wanted to see you play the version Current, but I see that you do not like ... on the other hand, if you make big changes in the arty, this game will become very boring. Currently the arty is not OP, only that people are not used to taking care of the units of the arty
Warhawks97 wrote:Shanks wrote:It's true, I left the game fast ... generally I do not waste time when the game is ultra unbalanced and my teammates lose in 5 min, it's the worst, I do not want to play an artificial extension ... I really wanted to see you play the version Current, but I see that you do not like ... on the other hand, if you make big changes in the arty, this game will become very boring. Currently the arty is not OP, only that people are not used to taking care of the units of the arty
lol, right, have you played bigger 4 vs 4 games? On bigger maps? The rockets fly all over the place and there is nothing "to care about" bc even between your base and frontline the rockets rained down insta killing tanks.....
Best comment.
I mean i played games for like more than 6 years and the most boring part was exzessive use of arty, no matter what, just arty for all moments.
Above that it was plain silly that a 0 cp 300 MP t2-3 rocket launcher could reach 4 CP howitzers just like that.
I dont think it becomes more boring. Why? Bc its less about pure arty vs arty and instead arty vs defenses with higher damage on direct hit.
Warhawks97 wrote:oh shanks.... why should i play the game then? Just to see arty rain again and to eliminate arty players`? Permanently facing walking stukas and stuff.... and no matter what i do.... i face arty.... and its not that this arty is most annyoing as US where you can bomb their defenses due to inferior ownm arty but also unable to reach theirs while getting bombed nonstop before any battle begins...
Shanks wrote:Warhawks97 wrote:oh shanks.... why should i play the game then? Just to see arty rain again and to eliminate arty players`? Permanently facing walking stukas and stuff.... and no matter what i do.... i face arty.... and its not that this arty is most annyoing as US where you can bomb their defenses due to inferior ownm arty but also unable to reach theirs while getting bombed nonstop before any battle begins...
and what is the problem? In every war there is arty, this game is not about "only inf or only tank or only arty", practically what you tell me is that this game, you can simply win it with arty, and it is not like that ! ... it really is hard for me to understand you
Tiger1996 wrote:What pisses me off about the arty adjustments in the beta.. is the following:
- BEFORE the beta:
Nasty ways, are called "camp and bomb" tactics.
- AFTER the beta:
They are just called "camp" tactics, and no bombing.
kwok wrote:I agree with warhawks, the skill differential to have a game using only arty vs not being able to use arty at all was too great. If you take a player who didn't use tanks, they can still be highly effective. If you take a player who didn't use arty, the skill gap needed to be just as effective and impactful was frustrating. This creates a meta of focusing on arty (and other off map) as a priority over any other type of unit. Shanks, you are a hardcore arty player only playing doctrines with artillery. Not to say you are a bad player, but if you played any other doctrine that lacks arty I think you would find it very difficult and unenjoyable. It's "unejoyable" portion that makes arty "bad". Because if you can't play other docs because the meta dictates it's not efficient to play those docs, then it highlights the problem in game design. It's why many new players choose terror doc over blitz. It's why new players choose infantry over air. It's why new players choose artillery over RE. Because they feel shut down every time they try to play something without artillery. Meanwhile, only high skill players dare to venture into other doctrines but even then, when they play "serious games" they tend to lean towards a doctrine with artillery while scolding new players when theyve chosen doctrines like air, blitz, RE, armor, etc. Honestly I should start blatantly recording games where people are being shitty to others and we can draw up correlations between doctrines, player behavior, and general sentiments of a certain game. People BITCH HARD about artillery...
Shanks wrote:@kwok-I liked that chat .... but only one question, do you know me (usually a lot of angre)..... why people do not complain about arty in my games ?, I hope an answer
kwok wrote:Shanks wrote:@kwok-I liked that chat .... but only one question, do you know me (usually a lot of angre)..... why people do not complain about arty in my games ?, I hope an answer
Lol because you play with friends like me. We complain in friendliness. I complain to you all the time, but kindly HAHA. But there are players that people just do not like to fight against... we do it because we are friends and we are running out of players to face. I think Wurf is a good player and a friend, I have no problem with him personally but GODDAMN I HATE facing him in game. I still FACE him but daaaaammnnnn his style is aggravating.
Shanks wrote:kwok wrote:Shanks wrote:@kwok-I liked that chat .... but only one question, do you know me (usually a lot of angre)..... why people do not complain about arty in my games ?, I hope an answer
Lol because you play with friends like me. We complain in friendliness. I complain to you all the time, but kindly HAHA. But there are players that people just do not like to fight against... we do it because we are friends and we are running out of players to face. I think Wurf is a good player and a friend, I have no problem with him personally but GODDAMN I HATE facing him in game. I still FACE him but daaaaammnnnn his style is aggravating.
it is true what you say, but I also play with many new players without any complaints during the game (not about arty) ... also those who usually play bk , for example, david father waffle walder opel royalcompanion mefisto figree wurf dolphin untechar tiger mercifu bk champion shadow and other players, they do not complain about the arty ..., I really do not think it's the arty the problem ... anyway, I'll try the beta
kwok wrote:But when an arty game comes around, as you've seen with my chat, people still complain.
Devilfish wrote:It is not fault of the players they play meta, it is fault of the game if meta is boring. Ideal state would be if there was no meta at all, but that is basically impossible to achieve. It's human's nature to look for optimal ways and same applies for the desire to win. PvP is competitive game, both sides want to win, otherwise it doesn't make sense. If you don't play meta, you are either creating a challenge for yourself, because your opponents are weaker, or you will lose and then complain that everybody plays meta.
kwok wrote:so yes I did it to piss as many people off
kwok wrote:Lastly, no offense shanks, but you are REALLY rusty right now haha. When you practice again and come back remembering how to build a front line for your arty, then players will remember agian how painful artillery is (unless luft still mega dominates and remains the main topic of bitching).
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