M20 Command Car

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drivebyhobo
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M20 Command Car

Postby drivebyhobo » 26 Apr 2018, 16:41

The "tactics" abilities of the M20 Command Car could be much less cumbersome to use. As is, to take advantage of the abilities, you must do a lot of micromanagement and have a bit of luck to get a good result before the ability effect expires.

Instead, I think the abilities should not expire and become a set of bonuses to choose from. Thus the M20 gameplay would play similar to the British Command Cromwell, but with the interesting twist of selecting which aura you want to have active, albeit with a much more vulnerable vehicle.

It makes much more logical sense for the M20 to always have a tactic once a tactic is selected. Imagine the ridiculousness of a real tank group commander going from we're using "assault tactics" to now we have no tactics at all.
Last edited by drivebyhobo on 26 Apr 2018, 17:53, edited 2 times in total.

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Tiger1996
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Apr 2018, 17:40

I'm glad someone created a topic about this particular unit, as I was actually willing to create one myself.
And I think the way of which this unit is currently represented.. is a bit odd. It does have 3 abilities, 1 of them provides +10 more gun range to the tank that the car is following, and 2nd ability provides more sight range.. and the 3rd provides less incoming accuracy, eventually making the tank that the M20 is following.. harder to hit. Each ability has a duration and costs ammo!

While I believe this unit could work different, so here is what I think:
For a radius of 40 range around the command car, any tank will receive +10 more gun range.. +5 more sight range and become 10% harder to hit.
So, the 3 abilities could be all removed.. however, in order to provide these bonuses, the command car will have to pay 100 ammo to setup itself.
Meaning that the command car will be no longer able to move, until the ability is canceled. It wouldn't be able to setup itself again before 3 minutes!

So, in short once again... The 3 abilities could be removed.. and replaced by 1 setup ability that costs 100 ammo and 3 minute recharge time.
When this ability is activated, the command car will setup itself becoming unable to move.. and thus, any friendly vehicle nearby (within a radius of just 40 range around the command car) will have the bonuses I mentioned above.


Combine this with earlier ALRS ability for Tiger1 at vet.1 in return for removing flank speed, and +5 default range for Elefant tank (from 65 to 70 and from 70 to 75 with static mode) and this way u get a nice balance, and a much more effective US command car which is also easier to use.

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Warhawks97
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby Warhawks97 » 26 Apr 2018, 18:07

Ok... lots of mistakes in just two posts.
The abilties and stats:
Area: 40 range, duration: 20 seconds.

Attack boost:
25% more pen chance
50% accuracy boost

Defensive boost:
75% reduced received accuracy
75% reduced accuracy

Range boost:
10% sight range boost
10 range increase for weapon


All cost 50 ammo.


What is actually wrong

1. Its supposed to to boost a groop of tanks. But with Area effect of "just 40" the tanks have to stick closely together. I swear you will see the fucking rocket arty coming on your nicely packed tanks long before could make the first shot and take advantage of these boosts. So gameplay wise its silly. I used the M20 a couple of times but the best use is when you use it together with Pershing and increase its range to tackle Panthers and Tigers from a save distance. Any use of group boost is usless due to fucking arty spam.
2. Duration of it. Either you activate it too late or too early. You dont want to waste the ability for nothing and 20 secs is damn short. Its best used when the enemie is attacking you and when you see them coming. Perhaps put it behind your ambushed TD´s and M36B in static mode (total range can be boosted to 75 this way) or to get max pen chance like when ambuhsing a Panther with two jacks or whatever. But for any offensive use its pointles as you never know when the battle will actually start. So 20 sec duration makes it kinda worthless for any usefull attack run.
3. It just dies very often. Everybody who is smart in this game will shoot that thing always first. And each time 350 MP to pay. Its usually better to get one more tank out and thus one more gun actually shooting as to invest this much into paper. 300 would be by far enough since it doesnt provide any passive boost, if not less.
4. As all allied vehicles and tanks: It takes too much damage even from mortar shots. M20´s and all other US/allied vehicles die within seconds in any mortar contested area. The first near hit damages engine, you start moving but when there are two mortars you wont escape. Mortars and absolute fatal to allied vehicles. Just two close hits and its over.
And since there are explosions from mortars and arty everywhere in later stages the M20 will be dead long before being from any help. Vehicles can be used far back as AA units or closer to front and nonstop moving. But a vehicles moving as slow as tanks are dead before they even know they are dead.


And to the suggestion.
First one doesnt sound bad. Interesting. I would be all up for it. Just the boosts are currently way stronger than those of CW as you can see. But the general idea is great. Switching arround passive boosts.
@Tiger. Did you think till end? 100 ammo and all activates at once? So we boost accuracy by 50% just to decrease it again by 75%? :lol:
I dont think the way it works is bad. Sure, we can make it just the same way as the CW command tank and providing nonstop passive

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Tiger1996
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Apr 2018, 18:20

Warhawks97 wrote:@Tiger. Did you think till end? 100 ammo and all activates at once? So we boost accuracy by 50% just to decrease it again by 75%? :lol:

No, I said:
Tiger1996 wrote:For a radius of 40 range around the command car, any tank will receive +10 more gun range.. +5 more sight range and become 10% harder to hit.
So, the 3 abilities could be all removed.. however, in order to provide these bonuses, the command car will have to pay 100 ammo to setup itself.

So, the 3 abilities would be entirely removed.. and only the bonuses I mentioned would apply!
I didn't say that all abilities will activate at once ;)

Warhawks97 wrote:4. As all allied vehicles and tanks: It takes too much damage even from mortar shots. M20´s and all other US/allied vehicles die within seconds in any mortar contested area. The first near hit damages engine, you start moving but when there are two mortars you wont escape. Mortars and absolute fatal to allied vehicles. Just two close hits and its over.
And since there are explosions from mortars and arty everywhere in later stages the M20 will be dead long before being from any help. Vehicles can be used far back as AA units or closer to front and nonstop moving. But a vehicles moving as slow as tanks are dead before they even know they are dead.

And btw, I think all armored cars (including Axis ones) die easily with mortars.

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Warhawks97
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby Warhawks97 » 26 Apr 2018, 18:28

Ok. so we pay 100 ammo. In which scenarios do you want to use it? + these boosts would be tiny for three reasons:

1. Optic upgrades provide + 15 range nonstop and you pay just 75 ammo once. So get a pershing with gunsights and you have your sight boost.
2. There are some tanks with like 90% accuracy (eg panther).... so -10% received accuracy wont save you from dying at all.... add to that ambush bonuses, vets, tank commander etc etc
3. +10 range. How would this help when you cant pen the target?

So at the end this vehicles would only be usefull for the very big tanks again where every little percantage decides between getting killed or to kill.
But for the vast majority of tanks in the armor doc arsenal these things wouldnt change anything. Lets assume two shermans and this car meet a german tank in the field.... two HVAP and this one makes 300 ammo at the end and that only for perhaps damaging a Tank IV? (bigger tanks would be out of question).

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Tiger1996
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby Tiger1996 » 26 Apr 2018, 18:45

Warhawks97 wrote:In which scenarios do you want to use it?

Well, my idea is as follows:
You will pay 100 ammo and ANY vehicle nearby the M20 Command Car in a radius of 40 range will benefit from these bonuses!
Tanks, Greyhound, Quad AA half-track, jeeps... ANY vehicle, not only tanks.

And +10 more range is such a HUGE boost.. you can literally BLOCK a certain area of the map in the face of any advancing Pz4 tanks.
Two 76 Shermans, M10 Wolverine or even Hellcat.. would all have +10 more range advantage in that zone.
So; definitely not just the big tanks will benefit from it.. because this way, no Pz4 will have enough courage to attack your 76 Shermans... Thanks to ur superior range. I mean that the command car will be more used to create a "stronghold zone" of Allied tanks.. the main purpose would be defensive maneuvers. Though, using it offensively would be still possible.. that's how I think of it!

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Warhawks97
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby Warhawks97 » 26 Apr 2018, 19:15

Ok, so 20 secs boost. Perhaps i manage to make two shots of one will probably bounce anyway. Bigger tanks are out of question.
Honestly, i would rather pay for what i need and what i get is big rather than extrem high cost for soft bonuses here and there of which some are not needed at all. When i want to kill something i want to boost my punch.

That here sounds more like one of those endless advertisments that keep telling you that you need this when you buys this and why not buying this as well when you already have purchased the first two things. At the end you have a complete outfit starting from a cap to shoes althought you just wanted a t-shirt and at the end of the day you wonder where all your money has gone to.

drivebyhobo
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby drivebyhobo » 27 Apr 2018, 01:34

Tiger1996 wrote: I mean that the command car will be more used to create a "stronghold zone" of Allied tanks.. the main purpose would be defensive maneuvers. Though, using it offensively would be still possible.. that's how I think of it!

Something so defensively oriented doesn't fit thematically. Your description sounds more like Hermann Balck than Patton's Armor Doctrine.

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Tiger1996
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby Tiger1996 » 27 Apr 2018, 15:33

Well, another idea:
Though, it's just a little tweak.. which is; in a radius of 40 around the command car.. any vehicle nearby will get +5 more gun range, permanently.
Without having to setup or pay for anything. And all the 3 abilities would stay untouched, except the 3rd one.. as it would only give +5 more gun range in compensation instead of +10 currently. So, you get +5 gun range for free for any vehicle just by standing nearby the command car.. and another +5 by paying ammo for the 3rd ability. So the total range bonus is still +10 gun range.. but just in a different way! Tho, it's worth to mention that only the vehicle of which the car is following.. will benefit further from any of the abilities. Which is currently the case anyway as far as I'm concerned...

So, this way.. the vehicle has something to offer by default without paying anything to all the nearby vehicles... And at the same time, u can still choose any further boost u want but only for a particular vehicle that the command car is sticking behind. So how do u guys think about this idea?

I believe if we really wanted a change to this unit, then we must initially agree on something altogether.. otherwise devs would be only more confused.

yser
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby yser » 10 Aug 2018, 00:28

did the m20 car need to use 50 ammo for boost or boost some bonus all time ?
I mean what the basic bonus?

The New BK Champion
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Re: M20 Command Car

Postby The New BK Champion » 10 Aug 2018, 09:00

Only by paying ammo u cast one of 3 bonuses. Otherwise it does nothing


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