Why Allies and German tanks are made equal???!!!

[Krieger Blitzer]

An Allies tank that costs 800 mp, available early as much as a Pz IVH.. can still compete and probably even beat another that is available much later with 1750 mp!! Huh, I can penetrate Pershing frontal armor using my Tiger much easier than when I try penetrating a Jumbo frontal armor!! And guess what, the Allies player will also later have another one that also greatly competes with it.
I mean that if the Axis player got the Tiger Ace, the Allies player will reply with Pershing Ace combined with a Jumbo!!! While even historically.. Allies Jumbo never was available before a Tiger or even a Panther, it was on late 1944 or early 1945 exactly as late Pershing was! Also they got no Pershing Ace, Churchill Ace neither a SP indeed... To a further proof Absolutely no ww2 game was dare enough to distort history and give Allies a Super Pershing or any other Ace tank through its campaign missions.

Also the Panthers were as cost as a Firefly! Not as cost as a Tiger or a Pershing tank!!! This is stupidity.
Germans would crush and win if they fight Allies or Soviets only but would surely lose if they fight Allies plus Soviets both altogether.
Allies in Bk mod don't even need any big or Ace tanks to take out German Tigers or other bigger tanks!!! They just can flank Elephants with 2 cheap Hellcats or even Jacksons and then simply burn it in hell.
Giving Allies big tanks that they never had is history distortion and also regarded as 'balance deformity'!! As that this way Axis tanks are no longer better or could be trusted anymore by any Axis player.

Game is balanced without SP or PAce and Churchill Ace... Specifically when to know that normal Churchill will be stronger like in real.
I would rework everything in this mod, but the only solution now is to just make Panthers as cheap as Fireflys because they were truly like that!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

YES! We need to remove all alies tanks exept 75mm M4 Sherman ( but remove his HE shells also). *sarcasm*

"Germans would crush & win if they fight Allies or Soviets only but would surely lose if they fight Allies plus Soviets both altogether."

So....whats was wrong with germans in 1943 to middle 1944? Why they were only retreating and retreating every week? Also, read some stuff about IS-2 and ISU-152, this machines grinded your tigers to dust, just like that.
http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2012/349/jsaj517.jpg

P.S. Topic is absolutely pointless and biased. Try to play USA armor vs. skilled Bk doc player ( vs me for ex, if you wanna know how to play bk doc smartly, not just to hope to win game with 1 unit) and you will be smashed by panzers before you will get your first jumbo.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Is this is the IS-2 u r talking about???!! How many were built???!!! When was it first produced???!!! 1945???!!!
http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8edn ... o1_500.jpg

U r comparing a tank produced on 1945 with another that can still greatly competes with IS-2 although it appeared much earlier on 1942????!!!!! This is no logic at all... senseless!

Germany retreated on 1944 cause USA also joined the battle on Europe and helped England as both made a rush into France, now Germany will have to fight 3 factions!!!

U r telling me not to use Tigers but just Panzer IVH spam like noobs to win!! Ridiculous.

What is pointless???!!! Is it 'okay' for the Jumbo to be available much earlier before a Tiger or a Panther while even the Panther costs a lot like a Tiger???!!! (This destroys history) And balance btw.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

1) ISU-152 joined battlefield in late 1943, as well as first IS-2. In 1945 came IS-3 frontal armor of which couldnt be penetrated by Tiger at all.
2) Why i shouldnt compare them when they often foughtht with each other lol? With what i must compare? With king tigers which are usually couldnt reach the battlefield cause were destroyed by assault planes and arty before making first shot?
3) I think noobs are sitting with mgs and paks waiting for tigers Skilled guys combining stormtroopers with pz4 and ostwinds for early winning.
4) Ye, its pointless. If thinking in that way..... why Maultiers are not needing cp unlock when Caliope needs? Why BK doc have special elite inf and tanks when usa tank doc have only tanks? Why bk doc have fuel trade but tank doc not? Why pershing costs same as tiger when it must be cheaper? So, if you want "balance", should we fix all this things?

[Wake]

Tiger, you are incredibly biased here.

First off, you ONLY play Wehrmacht Blitzkrieg doc and ONLY go for tigers and tiger aces. I've never seen you use stormtroopers or panzer 4's. You have such a limited point of view.

Second, you're complaining about your tigers and tiger aces getting destroyed by jumbo's and other allied tanks becuase you let them get destroyed. Your strategy involves driving a tiger ace into my lines and trying to physically touch my tanks. My 76 jumbos can easily penetrate your tigers at such close ranges. That's not how you use a tiger tank. You're supposed to keep it at range and not get flanked. You drive up into cities and get flanked by hellcats, bazookas, and even 75mm shermans that hit you in the rear.

If you keep your tiger tanks far away and pick off allied tanks before they can get close, you will be unstoppable. You are intentionally playing in to the allied advantages. All allied tank guns have much better penetration chances at close range, and you just let that happen.

Furthermore,

Germans would crush and win if they fight Allies or Soviets only but would surely lose if they fight Allies plus Soviets both altogether.

This just shows how incredibly biased you are. You are Egyptian right? You realize the nazis would have exterminated your race if they won the war? And winning the war for Germany was impossible, by the way. Even in a 1 on 1 battle between either the Soviet Union or the US would have resulted in defeat. America's population was twice that of Germany in WW2. All it takes is one breakthrough on a beach somewhere and the US can flood millions of men and tanks into Europe.

The same goes for the Soviets. Those "untermensch" subhumans raised their flag your reichstag. By the end of the war the Soviets were easily destroying everything the axis had. Even if Germany was fighting a 1-front war, that doesn't change that Soviet technology was better than German technology at the end (IS tanks beat all German tanks).

And to top it all off, if the US couldn't get a breakthrough in France, then Germany would have been turned into a radioactive wasteland. The allies had nuclear weapons! Which, by the way, were built with GERMAN scientists that you scared away because they were Jews. The Japs put up a better fight than Germany. We were so afraid of invading Japan that we dropped an atomic bomb on them. On the contrary, the allies steamed through Germany and took Berlin.

People like you are always pushing for "realism" but kind of ignore the fact that the allies won the war.

[Krieger Blitzer]

@Vodka;
The ISU-152 is a big tank that can no move exactly like the KT. Plus It was rare, really rare I mean.. I am not saying IS-2 is bad. I am saying Panthers should be available earlier by reducing their cost to beat the Jumbo since history supports me on this points too... Maultiers suck as it needs much ammo for nothing! I would rather to use Officer arty than this shit. U have always to keep in mind that Blitz doc is a small branch of the big German army which is separated to 2 different factions.. While the armor doc is a part of a much smaller army with fewer types! Why should the armor doc have any fuel trade while they have cheap units already??!!! Pershing should be cheaper I agree! But also later to be available.

@Wake;
U did not even play enough games with me to claim that I only play Blitz doc. I never drive my Tigers blindly into cities neither that also I usually never play in city maps even btw! ^^ I never use it in such a method, probably it was my mates.. not me! On the contrary, if u may check the few videos I uploaded on YouTube u can then figure out how I use them.

Hey u! I am not supporting Nazis!!!! o.O But I think it doesn't seem that good and better for me or the rest of the world nowadays although Allies have won. Nazis and Allies for me are alike!
But what u said is true, Germans are stronger.. on the other hand Allies have much more population and units. Speaking that I support Nazis is not accepted.

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Cmon Wake... You really such a kid that you blame in a game stuff like that? Stop crying man... cuz you a noob lol First of all.. i got no gf i got a wife;), My leg is wounded so i played much last weeks.And if you could use our ridicoulus Brain then you could think off thats it is whole "ingame" records , This whole in game records came out of 2 years plus waiting in host my friend. so stop cry now! Next.. To the pe grenades nerf: No. cmon man ist already hard to hit vehicles with it? b4 you reach a tank or shit your half squad is dead...... Churchhill armor buff: Great idea, Since they was very much armored in reallife but VERY VERY SLOW Jeep buff: Cmon man? so if anyone leave in start of game and cpu take over ist instantly lost... cpu spamm Jeep as hell, Ist also no fighting unit i hope you guys know it.. it is a Scout! It is in game for hunt down snipers and Scouts such as Motorrad... Nerf p4: really guys? cmon ist one of the worst axis standart tanks..... it projectiles from a Long barreled own get bounced by a m4 sherman sometimes.... Well yea this is my mind... And yea wake i know you will replay for my english but hey? Not the whole world speak english and are experts in it so stop whine man ! OH and tiger is right... Panther should cost like jacksons or fireflys... If Churchills get stronger....

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

@Vodka;
The ISU-152 is a big tank that can no move exactly like the KT. Plus It was rare, really rare I mean.. I am not saying IS-2 is bad. I am saying Panthers should be available earlier by reducing their cost to beat the Jumbo since history supports me on this points too... Maultiers suck as it needs much ammo for nothing! I would rather to use Officer arty than this shit. U have always to keep in mind that Blitz doc is a small branch of the big German army which is separated to 2 different factions.. While the armor doc is a part of a much smaller army with fewer types! Why should the armor doc have any fuel trade while they have cheap units already??!!! Pershing should be cheaper I agree! But also later to be available.

ISU-152 3252 produced
Tiger 1 - 1355 produced

Are you sure that it was rare?

What units are cheap? e8 costs 450 mp 52 fuel, (after mass prod upgrade) panzer 4 the same, BUT, shermans first need to be upgraded with sanbags and commander + always HVAP using, or hits nothing, for all this you need HUGE ammount of res. Jakcson costs 780 mp 110 fuel, just 30 fuel less than panther, but should we compare their effectivness? Rangers costs 360 vs stroms 400, stroms MUCH more effective, at team with zooks costs 360, same as schreck team, but it can do nothing to panthers and tigers( i mean standart aooks, not upgraded from inf or air doc), when schrecks can damage all alied tanks so, what cheap units you mean? 75 mm sherman? Ye, its badass vs. infatry for its cost, but you always need to cover them with some heavy anti at stuff.

Just as Wake said, you play only 1 faction, 1 doc, and nearly all your points are biassed and useless. I broke you 5 times in a row in 1vs1, you ALWAYS played with 1 and only tactic and ALWAYS complained when stupidly tiger loosing trying to atack without recon

-Tiger smashed by covered hellcat? - omg, hellcat too OP for its cost, historically i must rush it without getting damage even if its ambushed.
-Tiger smashed by 17 pounder? - omg, too OP, 440 mp unit, 2 shots and my favotite tiger down, *cry cry*
-Tiger smashed by rocket run? - omg, im not trying to use AA stuff at all, but its OP for sure, *cry cry*
-Tiger smashed by persh ace? - omg, unhistorical.
-Tiger smashed by Super Persh? - omg, unhistorical.
-Tiger blocked by tank traps then flanked and killed? - omg, unhistorical.
-Tiger smashed by arty? - omg, too OP arty.

Thats all from forum and pvp games with you.

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Omg guys stop talking... FIRST OF ALL ITS A GAME! it is not your decision what ppl faction like to Play! i Play it cuz it is funny for me not because i have too Sukin it kinda look like you Play game to proof us somethink as said just a game, and wake, how you a nazi cuz you Play Germans "IN A GAME" cmon man in a fucking game lol if you walk around bald tattoed with big boots and shit you can ppl call nazis. BUT NOT CUZ SOMEONE LIKE PLAY GERMANS IN FACTION LOL..... So you a american fan girl? cuz you love Play americans so you a Yankee? i dont guess.. so I think you do it cause you have fun with em lol. Stop talk man it is like this game is you guys life... let ppl Play as they want dont care who win who not it is a game omg... all Play for fun but some ppl take it to serious as i seeO_o Cmon i am right now... let ppl Play as what they want because it is a game and a game can never be accurate like in reallife so cmon! and let ppl Play as wich and what they want aslong it is fun-.-

[Krieger Blitzer]

@Vodka;
I am sad that those new members who weren't on the old forums actually can't unfortunately see the replay I published there, did u forget??!! It was me and u 1 vs 1... U betted me that u can destroy my Ace without PAce or SP, Were u able to get my Tiger destroyed just by Hellcats and Jacksons without breaking the deal and getting a PAce I wounder??!! Well, I want publish that replay file here again but damn! I can't attach files as I can see!!!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I am sad those new members who weren't on the old forums can't unfortunately see the replay I published there, did u forget??!! It was me and u 1 vs 1... U bet me that u can destroy my Ace without PAce or SP, Were u able to get my Tiger destroyed just by Hellcats without breaking the deal and getting a PAce I wounder??!! Well, I want publish the replay file here again but damn! I can't attach files!!!

Ye, download it 1 more time pls, there we can see a perfect balance when 1 player first easily wins by using strategy, and than others player ass geting saved cause of 1 unit, which cant be defeated without persh ace with command car, i atacked it with 2 jacksons and hellcat, result is *miss, bounced, bounced". Finally i was pissed with this "balanced" game and smashed your ace with my ace.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Breaking deals is not accepted indeed even if u were pissed Anyways, I will upload it again here surely once I just know how to do it on this new forums.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Breaking deals is not accepted indeed even if u were pissed Anyways, I will upload it again here surely once I just know how to do it on this new forums.

Sure.
Why you didnt say something about "cheap" alied units in mu previous post? Nothin to say right?

Edit: Will you upload other 4 replays too?^

[Krieger Blitzer]

Make Allies tanks more cheap, I agree... But Axis tanks more strong. Replace the Jumbo with 3 E8s to be called in for example.. Jumbo should no appear before a Tiger! Panthers should be cheaper. That's all what I got.. not going to discuss more. I am tired

Edit: No I will not upload our other four 1 vs 1 game replays surely.. simply because u used there SP and PAce as always, nothing new... I may upload only that one because it was without any super Allies tanks like in real. At least my Axis tanks had chance there without the existence of PAce or SP! As u said I was winning it that way.. u had to get the PAce again but this time by breaking the deal in order to finish me while I got only 1 time Tiger Ace!

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

In reallife ww2 its true it was more like " as more as better" Think off why there was always 10- 14 shermans attacking? cuz 1 didnt made it so it should be in bk, you understand me vodka? Americans spammed tanks they never had any good tank that could fuck up german tank in 1v1 they ALWAYS made a attack with 13- 16 shermans and overruned a tiger to win, so it supposed to be in bk..

[Krieger Blitzer]

In reallife ww2 its true it was more like " as more as better" Think off why there was always 10- 14 shermans attacking? cuz 1 didnt made it so it should be in bk, you understand me vodka? Americans spammed tanks they never had any good tank that could fuck up german tank in 1v1 they ALWAYS made a attack with 13- 16 shermans and overruned a tiger to win, so it supposed to be in bk..

That's exactly what I mean. Well said!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

In reallife ww2 its true it was more like " as more as better" Think off why there was always 10- 14 shermans attacking? cuz 1 didnt made it so it should be in bk, you understand me vodka? Americans spammed tanks they never had any good tank that could fuck up german tank in 1v1 they ALWAYS made a attack with 13- 16 shermans and overruned a tiger to win, so it supposed to be in bk..

Ok, but show me where i said that americans had tanks which were able to fight german armor in 1vs1? I said it talking about russian tanks, not yanki once.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Alright Vodka, I admit Russian tanks were much better than Allies tanks indeed.. but we will not talk about Russian tanks here any longer Bk mod has no Soviet faction!

Now let's get back to talk about the Bk mod, I forgot to hint something really important... If u play as Allies, u get a very comprehensive army! U will have all kind of weapons. Tank hunters, cheap-good and fast medium tanks.. and now even super heavy tanks!!! While this is no way historical as we know. We all agree on that Allies got no super heavy tanks during ww2!! Even some sources as I said before somewhere regard the Pershing as a medium tank.

But if u look on the other side, Germany is separated to 2 different factions! I don't have such a comprehensive army like the Allies do have!! If I go Blitz doc for example. This means I will have no JagdPanthers! Neither KTs!! Although that it's well known they fought together. I will not have all kind of German weapons. I will have only a small part of the German Blitz branch power, not even all the Blitz branch or doc power!!! I can't 1vs1 this way! Did u guys reach my point???!!!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Alright Vodka, I admit Russian tanks were much better than Allies tanks indeed.. but we will not talk about Russian tanks here any longer Bk mod has no Soviet faction!

Now let's get back to talk about the Bk mod, I forgot to hint something really important... If u play as Allies, u get a very comprehensive army! U will have all kind of weapons. Tank hunters, cheap-good and fast medium tanks.. and now even super heavy tanks!!! While this is no way historical as we know. We all agree on that Allies got no super heavy tanks during ww2!! Even some sources as I said before somewhere regard the Pershing as a medium tank.

But if u look on the other side, Germany is separated to 2 different factions! I don't have such a comprehensive army like the Allies do have!! If I go Blitz doc for example. This means I will have no JagdPanthers! Neither KTs!! Although that it's well known they fought together. I will not have all kind of German weapons. I will have only a small part of the German Blitz branch power, not even all the Blitz branch or doc power!!! I can't 1vs1 this way! Did u guys reach my point???!!!

Sry, but this is even more stupid that you previous points, you mean here that bk doc isnt enough flexible in 1vs1? LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL and one more time lol.

Blitz have cool medium vehicles, elite inf with own truck, non CP arty, res trade, heavy tanks, AA stuff, call in stuff. When Usa tank doc have only TANKS, nothing more, i will not comment it more cause no sense, this reasons are obvious to all. You just need to TRY play usa in 1vs1, and you will understand how damn much you are wrong.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I did not mean Blitz doc no flexible, u misunderstood what I said. I asked on another way for all doctrines rework like Warhawks asked many times before... And btw if Armor doc had SP in 1vs1 between the hands of a good player, Blitz doc player chances of win will become zero. That's why Blitz doc player will have only 1 tactic to do then, spamming early Pz IVH would be the only solution. As that he even can't stick on Panthers cause they cost like a Tiger! While this would be no fun.

[Wolf]

In reallife ww2 its true it was more like " as more as better" Think off why there was always 10- 14 shermans attacking? cuz 1 didnt made it so it should be in bk, you understand me vodka? Americans spammed tanks they never had any good tank that could fuck up german tank in 1v1 they ALWAYS made a attack with 13- 16 shermans and overruned a tiger to win, so it supposed to be in bk..

It just can't be like that, imagine even 2 players, both with just 10 shermans, you wouldn't do shit with other stuff, as the amount of MGs / guns would kill anything. + Engine would probably not take it good. Thats just not possible, thats why its more like 1:2.5 in BK. That obviously results in having tanks somewhat better. On the other hand, don't tell me that 76mm shermans couldn't kill tiger, especially on short range, we had this debate before.

[Warhawks97]

Tiger... you really opened that topic.....I hoped you understood the stuff i wrote you in steam

I agree with Vodka in many points. Also Tiger you didnt realize that BK doc has much more than only tanks and Tiger aces. You claim Maultier is usless? well it cost 0 CP and 400 mp and some fuel to build. The calli cost 7 or 8CP, 800 mp, longer cooldown and a long barrage cost 95 ammo. You think it shoots more rockets? well Maultier shoots more accurate and each rockets deals much more damage, esspecially against vehicles, defenses/buildings, Tanks,Paks. A calli cant really harm a pak (the gun), tanks or emplacment! And you say Mauktier is piece of shit?!

Also 800 MP sherman kills 1750 mp tank? not in 1 vs 1, only if smart used with HVAP.
Also the Stug III for 350/40 which needs no CP kills easily a 400/40 mp sherman with 75 mm gun and has also good anti inf capabilites!

A Tank IV in Bk doc for 450/55 can beat an e8 which cost 365/65 in Armor doc. You think Tank IV is more expensive? Well Tank IV H comes much earlier as less buildings and upgrades are required. E8 cost extra 35 fuel upgrade and requires supply yard. So the e8 requires a way more res to get cost more fuel to build and cost 4 fuel in upkeep while Tank IV just 2 and Panther only 3! Furthermore as comrade said the BK doc has res trade which gives instantly 75 fuel and bypasses upkeep and allows producing tanks by holding ammo points only. Also US have to spend a lot more ressources (esspecially fuel) into several upgrades which axis dont need and which can be used for tank production!

So the axis tanks have usually already better cost- performence ratio!


Good Lord, how can you demand Panthers with cost of firefly or how can you compare those two?! A firefly alone is usless and easy target for inf, cheap 50 mm paks and can be beaten by Tank IV´s and cost 5 fuel in upkeep! The Panther can deal with any enemie Tank by its own and 76 shermans have low chance to pen it if they use no HVAP which cost 100 ammo for each Tank (upgrade and activation). The Panther can deal very well with every threat, is pretty ressistant to bazookas, actually unpenetrationable by 57 mm paks and even Heavier paks need special AP ammo to increase chance for a kill. The Firefly is a specialised tank destroyer that cant deal with inf and which get killed by small 50 mm paks and not even to mention to start an assault.

How the hell can you compare a very good Multirole Tank such as the Panther is and its cost with Highly specialised Tanks like Firefly or Jackson?!

You use Historical facts as reason to reduce cost of Panther? Fine, Panther would be much cheaper but Jacksons even more. The Stugs and JP would maybe be the cheapest of all but then dont complain about B17 base carpet bombing and a allied MP income of 500+ by default + 20 fuel per min by default!

As the Panther is basically as good as Tigers (not talking about abilites) you cant demand to make Panthers much cheaper than Tigers just because it was reality. Also in reality for each Panther came 5-10 shermans. here you get about 2 1/2 shermans for one Panther. Dont use massproduction cost of armor doc as those doc has pretty much only tanks and nothing else.


And if you complain that a 800 mp unit kills your 770 or 1750 mp units i regret to inform you that I´ve oneshoted 1450 mp persh ace with 50 mm pak using 100 ammo rocket shot! i also regularly kill 830 mp/160 fuel Pershings and 1450 Persh aces or 1300 mp church aces with 580 (520)mp/80(65)fuel expensive Nashorns or Jagdpanzer IV/70. Not even to mention even what the 800 (700)mp/150(140) fuel JP is doing. That tank knocks out entire tank armies without getting damaged even.

few days ago my teammate killed a Persh ace with with a 360 mp Marder II. It was a oneshot.


You say two Hellcats easily kill Elephant by flanking it? You know that if you want to flank the German turretless tankbusters with own tanks you must take usually at least one loss so that the others can circle arround and even then a win is uncertain. If you fail you just lost 3-4 tanks while enemie got one elite tank damaged and on Vet step.




And whats that for a topic name? equal? lmao..... there is nothing equal and tanks with pretty much equal cost (e.g Tank Iv vs 76 sherman) are better for axis as they are less vulnerable to allied hendheld at and medium paks and having much better pen stats against their counterparts.

You claim that early available jumbo kills later coming Tigers? CP are more for Jumbo. Also axis get 0 CP marders and Stugs which work as multirole units for 0 CP and cheaper cost which beat allied 0 CP 75 shermans and aa tanks with ease.

Expand it even to vehicles if you want. Axis get many fast vehicles with 30 mm armor and 20 mm canon which kill enemie (armored) vehicles and inf pretty well while alli vehicles such as M16 with quad cal 50 are anti inf only (except they can get very close to axis vehicles) and cost even more fuel? Why dont you talk about that "cost imbalance" as well?! Or compare scout car with bren carrier? Bren Carrier cost more and armor is up the same just bren kills nothing and soaks only bullets while scout cars for same cost are bulletproof but also incredible deadly to inf.

Would you demand to make bren carriers and M16 also cheaper just because they cant match up with their counterparts altough they cost the same? just as you do with Panthers which get sometimes killed by specilized tankbusters?

[Warhawks97]

Cmon Wake... You really such a kid that you blame in a game stuff like that? Stop crying man... cuz you a noob lol First of all.. i got no gf i got a wife;), My leg is wounded so i played much last weeks.And if you could use our ridicoulus Brain then you could think off thats it is whole "ingame" records , This whole in game records came out of 2 years plus waiting in host my friend. so stop cry now! Next.. To the pe grenades nerf: No. cmon man ist already hard to hit vehicles with it? b4 you reach a tank or shit your half squad is dead...... Churchhill armor buff: Great idea, Since they was very much armored in reallife but VERY VERY SLOW Jeep buff: Cmon man? so if anyone leave in start of game and cpu take over ist instantly lost... cpu spamm Jeep as hell, Ist also no fighting unit i hope you guys know it.. it is a Scout! It is in game for hunt down snipers and Scouts such as Motorrad... Nerf p4: really guys? cmon ist one of the worst axis standart tanks..... it projectiles from a Long barreled own get bounced by a m4 sherman sometimes.... Well yea this is my mind... And yea wake i know you will replay for my english but hey? Not the whole world speak english and are experts in it so stop whine man ! OH and tiger is right... Panther should cost like jacksons or fireflys... If Churchills get stronger....

@Lehr divison: Holly shit.....Jeep is crap so far, it may beats schwimmwagen in 1 vs 1 but tactically usless. Like grens gonna do flank attack: allis must send jeep+inf. Rifles or brits inf going to flank? axis send schwimmwagen or bike and rape them all before they get in cover. jeep is scout car and sniper hunter, schwimmwagen and motorbikes scout, sniper hunter and also mobile MG42 platform and schwimmwagen a vehicle with many abilites (doctrinal and non-dcotrinal such as repairs and capture points).
You complain about bot jeep spam? your fault..... get pak or 28 mm panzerbüche -.-

You talk about AT grendes? Well ever tried using sticky bombs? sticky bombs have by far less range, need to be upgraded, cost 15 ammo more and are by far less effective!

Panzer IV: H cost 550/75 and 450/55 in bk doc. It has 95% chance on max range to pen shermans 76 which cost 460/60 and 345/45 and 4 fuel upkeep. tank Iv also comes earlier. the J cost only 410/45 for bk doc. In return the sherman 76 has 43% chance to pen Tank Iv on max range. Even on point blank its just 90% and thus lower as tank IV vs sherman on max range! BUT YEAH... p4 sucks. *facepalm* I think i need to show you how good axis players gonna stomp ya with good tank IV rush and spam within 20 minutes while you just drive arround with some 75 shermans.

[Charles Vane]

Forget the tiger. panther is better in every aspect except rear/side armor

the tigers design was outdated in 43 and only was able to beat the IS 2 on Long range because of better optics and more accuracy. but then only with luck or APCR ammo on short range the tiger was nothing compared to the IS 2
panther on the other Hand had more pen and better armor then the tiger and an even more accurate gun.

panther mass production would have been much smarter then keeping the tiger design until end of 44 and then building KTs...

edit:
Even if Germany was fighting a 1-front war, that doesn't change that Soviet technology was better than German technology at the end

wait what? do you really want to argue about german tech? do you really want to compare what Germans had after fighting several nations and mention "even if" how could you know? without war in the west it may had other results. and IS 2 smashed everything? I think that a panther would disagree.

"And to top it all off, if the US couldn't get a breakthrough in France, then Germany would have been turned into a radioactive wasteland. The allies had nuclear weapons! Which, by the way, were built with GERMAN scientists that you scared away because they were Jews. The Japs put up a better fight than Germany. We were so afraid of invading Japan that we dropped an atomic bomb on them."

I think you Need a bit help in School with history hm? PM me in steam I can refresh your history knowlege a bit.


"allies won the war" weak Argument. build your own mod and give them a win button. arguments like this are in a multiplayer game where both factions have a Chance to win so damn off..

[Krieger Blitzer]

Oh my god.
@Warhawks, u come to tell me how good the Blitz doc is?! o.O Dude, I am an expert Blitz doc player and so I well know that it's much more to be only about Tigers x.x But this is the point.. that's what I don't like!!! Early Pz IVH spam is no fun.
I know that Blitz doc is one of the best docs in the game u don't have to tell me that!

U already said all that to me on Steam, well.. why did u mention nothing about the reloading time of Panthers???!!! It takes too long when compared with many other tanks x.x I would surely prefer Tigers as they reload faster and still have better abilities.

A super tank should never be dead with one shot, do u think I am happy to know that u killed a Pershing Ace that way?! x.x

Stugs are good vs inf???!!! Stug die with 2 poor M9 Bazooka rockets LOL while this is no way realistic. Stugs should better stand vs M9 Bazooka rockets and bounce some btw. While in Bk mod it never does. Idk why!

U don't also yet get my point, I need more quality German tanks vs more quantity Allies tanks!! I guess u already wrote topics about that several times. I know that some of Allies tanks historically should cost nothing at all and not only just lower cost!! I agree that, let's make it! Really, I no joke... Short barrel 75mm Sherman should cost 10 fuel But also Panther should cost 95 fuel. The Panther G noway deserves 160 fuel!!! I am a lot tired to discuss or type more, sorry...

" wait what? do you really want to argue about german tech? do you really want to compare what Germans had after fighting several nations and mention "even if" how could you know? without war in the west it may had other results. and IS 2 smashed everything? I think that a panther would disagree. " +1
That's what I am saying