[Alpha] Marder3

[Krieger Blitzer]

i was playing Alpha right now, and my full health Marder3 died in 1 burst by US HMG team.

Pioneer squad would have probably survived much longer...

Marder3 should be immune to small arms fire, just like Hellcat and all other open-top Allied TDs.

[kwok]

wow didn't expect that. i'm guessing it was with AP rounds? or without?
should it pen even with AP rounds? i'm sure there's going to be "realism" fans out there who will have something to say. we'll ignore those and try to keep it gameplay focused.

[mofetagalactica]

Are you sure it was just 1 burst? i've tried to do the same againts a marder with the vicker gun and didn't go that well, it does damage but gives enough time for the marder to retreat, afterall the marder is just a platform to put an AT gun so it dosn't have to be tow by a vehicle.

[Warhawks97]

how close was he?
Bc i killed several vehicles like sdkfz 222 or M20 in one burst using AP rounds. And marders armor isnt better than that of those.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Marder3 wasn't too close, and the US HMG team didn't use any AP rounds.

I would be fine if the HMG with AP killed the Pak40 (75mm AT) Puma like this.. however, the Marder3 should survive any small arms fire except 50.cals and Quad, pretty much like how Hellcat survives small arms fire and MGs but dies to 20mm flaks.

So, 75mm Puma armor = 57mm half-track armor = both die with AP bullets.

Marder3 armor = Hellcat armor = both shouldn't die to AP bullets or small arms fire, but both die to 50.cals and 20mm flaks.

Strafe planes on both sides are the only thing with AP bullets to kill both Hellcat and Marder, which is fine as they already do.

[Warhawks97]

Basically, all these vehicles arent different in terms of armor.

Let it be the 222, Marder, Hellcat.

So it would just make sense that all or non would take damage from HMG´s. Basically the armor of all of these vehicles should be sufficient.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Ya, i know.. but i kinda compare them based on "class" not based on realistic armor.
Gameplay wise, Hellcat is on pair with Marder3 as they are in the same class.
Whereas armored cars are on a lower class.. but generally we seem to agree anyways.

[MarKr]

The US HMG has at any range 5% chance to penetrate Marders frontally and from rear it is about 25% chance (without AP ammo active).

Each bullet that penetrates deals on average about 9 damage, Marders have 375HP so that would take 41 penetrative hits to kill a marder. A single burst from the HMG fires 25 shots, so even if all of them hit and penetrated (which seems to be pretty unlikely by looking at the stats), one burst shouldn't be enough to kill a Marder.

Are you absolutely sure that was no other unit, such as camoed AT gun, taking shot at the Marder?

[Diablo]

I've had Marders die with 1-2 bursts. It was happening fast, man. But that was with an Extreme AI in the game. Do they get extra penetration/damage?

[MarKr]

No, AI gets no bonuses in stats, AI skill levels are "harder" because each level has higher ammount of units it can simultaneously command (I think), and their resources are multiplied for any difficulty above "easy", so you get from a point +8 ammo, but Normal AI gets +12, Hard AI gets +16 and Expert AI gets +24. So it gets harder because the AI can replace units a lot faster than you, but the AI doesn't cheat in weapon/unit stats.

I am asking about other units because it has happened to me in the past that someone claimed that some unit A one-shot his unit B, I checked stats, it shouldn't have been possible for unit A to do that and then I checked the replay and discovered that there was a hidden AT gun that actually did the kill, it only fired at the same time as unit A so it only looked that unit A killed unit B. The AP ammo makes every shot form HMG penetrate Marders but the AP ammo does not increase damage so even then 1 burst should take out marder only with a lot of RNG luck with damage rolls.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Yes, i'm absolutely sure no other weapons were shooting my Marder tank, and it was full HP when it was quickly killed by a US HMG squad at medium range in 1 burst.