Some points that in current BETA stil need to be improved

[Sparrow]

Whematch:
1-The AT-Boys are needed in all doctrines, because they are the quickly counter of all light allies 50 cal vehicules. By the time allies deploy a 50 cal movile unit, in a 4v4 map that unit reach more faster the sector than the AT-Boys (if you go Blitzkrieg Doctrine, if not you are in a trouble)

American:
1-The airborne doctrine need to nerf the scout of 180 MP. They can be deployed in any part of the map and they can ambush and also they can shoot with pistols. I have friends who use this unit as kamikazes. They spend a bit MP at the begining just to spot units and secure positions at the very begining (the first 5min of the match are the most important to take the main positions). They need to be more expensive or they shouldnt be deployd behind enemy lines in the war fog
2-Sherman has too many HP value, so high that can hold against a Panzer IV with piercing ammunition. Without that ammo the shots are ineficient.
3-You play Armored doctrine the half of the game without a unit that can be call as a doctrine unit. Is weak and only make a difference when you take a Pershing or a SP. That doctrine should have both types of Jackson tank destroyer and the Jumbo should cost less points, because is an infantry Jumbo, not the one with the 76mm. Also, the assasult engineers should be avaiable since you build the 2nd HQ an not the 3rd, but in the 1rst HQ (the infantry HQ). If you go against an SS (Elite Panzer) your infantry does not have nothing to do vs an earlier assault pioneer

Conclusion
-The current BETA its better than before, but need to adjust some units for the good of the well balance.
-Armored Doctrine is a weak doctrine
-Allies are OP with their 50 cal units at the very begining of the game
-Airbone paratroopers scout are kamikazes, is just a suicide squad for a small price of 180 MP.
-You can easly win with allies playing a 4v4 match with: Infantry, RAFT, Airborne, Royal Engineer

This is not only my opinion, my friend MEFISTO, wich is a good BETA tester have been playing with us (the cubans) all this days and he is agree with me.

Cheers fellow Blitzkriegers

[Sparrow]

Those airbornes scouts are also used for spot snipers, MG and mortar..., just one click, 180MP, a suicide unit...they are used to discover enemy units behind the lines, them you will be an easy target for the air strikes...or maiby a sniper, or a Tank....they can be used in so many cases that you wouldnt believe that...have to much for win and almost nothing to loose

[Redgaarden]

Those airbornes scouts are also used for spot snipers, MG and mortar..., just one click, 180MP, a suicide unit...they are used to discover enemy units behind the lines, them you will be an easy target for the air strikes...or maiby a sniper, or a Tank....they can be used in so many cases that you wouldnt believe that...have to much for win and almost nothing to loose

That actually sounds pretty awesome as a feature, I wish the scout plane could fill this function...

1-The airborne doctrine need to nerf the scout of 180 MP. They can be deployed in any part of the map and they can ambush and also they can shoot with pistols. I have friends who use this unit as kamikazes. They spend a bit MP at the begining just to spot units and secure positions at the very begining (the first 5min of the match are the most important to take the main positions). They need to be more expensive or they shouldnt be deployd behind enemy lines in the war fog

They are at most strong as a pioneer squad, and at worst even weaker. And 180 mp is quite alot for a begining that doesn't acomplish much.

2-Sherman has too many HP value, so high that can hold against a Panzer IV with piercing ammunition. Without that ammo the shots are ineficient.

The sherman will quite literally die to 2 pens all the time (400-600 dmg vs 700 hp) of the pz4. Do you want them to die in 1 shot everytime? I dont mind buffing Armor Piecering rounds so they have 100% chance to pen against sherman. Being how expensive they are atm, Costing as much as a arty barrage. And pz4 are cheaper than shermans right now, and have less upkeep.

3-You play Armored doctrine the half of the game without a unit that can be call as a doctrine unit. Is weak and only make a difference when you take a Pershing or a SP. That doctrine should have both types of Jackson tank destroyer and the Jumbo should cost less points, because is an infantry Jumbo, not the one with the 76mm. Also, the assasult engineers should be avaiable since you build the 2nd HQ an not the 3rd, but in the 1rst HQ (the infantry HQ). If you go against an SS (Elite Panzer) your infantry does not have nothing to do vs an earlier assault pioneer

Jackson tank destroyers are pretty weak and I dont see why adding them into the doctrine will make it better. If anything it would probably make it weaker. And the 75/76 mm jumbo are not that much different, the 75mm is quite better against infantry while the 76 is... a 76... but I agree the 75mm cost quite alot of cp's. That when it comes out everything is able to pen if not oneshot it.
And Riflemen in cover should be able to deal with Assault pioneers. Or if you're daring you could get a hmg or engineers. Outgun those fuckers!!!

[Sparrow]

Those airbornes scouts are also used for spot snipers, MG and mortar..., just one click, 180MP, a suicide unit...they are used to discover enemy units behind the lines, them you will be an easy target for the air strikes...or maiby a sniper, or a Tank....they can be used in so many cases that you wouldnt believe that...have to much for win and almost nothing to loose

That actually sounds pretty awesome as a feature, I wish the scout plane could fill this function...

1-The airborne doctrine need to nerf the scout of 180 MP. They can be deployed in any part of the map and they can ambush and also they can shoot with pistols. I have friends who use this unit as kamikazes. They spend a bit MP at the begining just to spot units and secure positions at the very begining (the first 5min of the match are the most important to take the main positions). They need to be more expensive or they shouldnt be deployd behind enemy lines in the war fog

They are at most strong as a pioneer squad, and at worst even weaker. And 180 mp is quite alot for a begining that doesn't acomplish much.

2-Sherman has too many HP value, so high that can hold against a Panzer IV with piercing ammunition. Without that ammo the shots are ineficient.

The sherman will quite literally die to 2 pens all the time (400-600 dmg vs 700 hp) of the pz4. Do you want them to die in 1 shot everytime? I dont mind buffing Armor Piecering rounds so they have 100% chance to pen against sherman. Being how expensive they are atm, Costing as much as a arty barrage. And pz4 are cheaper than shermans right now, and have less upkeep.

3-You play Armored doctrine the half of the game without a unit that can be call as a doctrine unit. Is weak and only make a difference when you take a Pershing or a SP. That doctrine should have both types of Jackson tank destroyer and the Jumbo should cost less points, because is an infantry Jumbo, not the one with the 76mm. Also, the assasult engineers should be avaiable since you build the 2nd HQ an not the 3rd, but in the 1rst HQ (the infantry HQ). If you go against an SS (Elite Panzer) your infantry does not have nothing to do vs an earlier assault pioneer

Jackson tank destroyers are pretty weak and I dont see why adding them into the doctrine will make it better. If anything it would probably make it weaker. And the 75/76 mm jumbo are not that much different, the 75mm is quite better against infantry while the 76 is... a 76... but I agree the 75mm cost quite alot of cp's. That when it comes out everything is able to pen if not oneshot it.
And Riflemen in cover should be able to deal with Assault pioneers. Or if you're daring you could get a hmg or engineers. Outgun those fuckers!!!

It will be nice if my Panzer IV were more lucky and its shoots doesnt rebound on the Sherman with the Piercing ammo...I know that 2 are enough for him to take that tank out...but the accuracy of the 2nd shoot with piercing is not always as much as ther fisrt one

About the propose of haveing both Jackson in the Armored company, I see it well, because it will be a grate combination of a good tank hunter in cammyflash and the other to rapid fire...

Riflemam are good from cover and long distance, if you put then el rifle...but if you are going against an SS you should be prepare for a rush of vehicules, so you spend the ammo in the anti-vehicule shoot. I understand that inggineer assault squad are OP against to whemartch, so the solution to moving up to the 1st HQ is not the best...

[Warhawks97]

Whematch:
1-The AT-Boys are needed in all doctrines, because they are the quickly counter of all light allies 50 cal vehicules. By the time allies deploy a 50 cal movile unit, in a 4v4 map that unit reach more faster the sector than the AT-Boys (if you go Blitzkrieg Doctrine, if not you are in a trouble)

Big big no from me. Having silly 360 degree shooting anti tank guns doesnt make the game more fun to play. It only makes them incredible static and boring. Axis has lots of vehicles to deal with allied vehicles like 37 mm HT, Puma etc and they all shred inf pretty well, too.

Cal 50 alone requires 30 fuel to unlock. I get my Pumas out long before anyone gets a greyhound and M20 is no real match for the Puma.

I only use the AT rifle when playing vs brits bc these daimlers can be quite dangerous. But aginst US i just stick with normal inf, 37 mm AT and quickly a 20 mm vehicle. Thats more than enough.



In fact, i am often the one as WH forcing the US players to react in the early and mid stages, not the other way arround. I am a lot more pressured in every game when i play US. So much so that i sometimes get 2-3 AT guns just to prevent being swarmed and overwhelmed by MG cars, 20 mm cars and 37 mm HT´s with deadly HE rounds.


If a single cal 50 jeep causes headaches i would reccommend you play as US vs PE on a big map. You will get a whole new definition what it means to be outmaneuvered or "outmobiled".

American:
1-The airborne doctrine need to nerf the scout of 180 MP. They can be deployed in any part of the map and they can ambush and also they can shoot with pistols. I have friends who use this unit as kamikazes. They spend a bit MP at the begining just to spot units and secure positions at the very begining (the first 5min of the match are the most important to take the main positions). They need to be more expensive or they shouldnt be deployd behind enemy lines in the war fog

i dont have a opinion on that. But i could sometimes get into enrage when i see Luftwaffe fallis dropping into my ranger and rifle squad, both armed with BAR and lmg and supported by M16 HT, then killing all rangers, rifles and the M16 and ultimately destroy my mortar pit and retreat with the last men that is just dropping from the sky when the shooting ended.

Thats madness bro.

2-Sherman has too many HP value, so high that can hold against a Panzer IV with piercing ammunition. Without that ammo the shots are ineficient.

both have to eat each other twice. Tank IV has 636 HP, 76 sherman 700 for good reasons. First bc its a Wet storage tank and secondly, since HP for tanks is based on tanks weight, the sherman sits right in the middle of Panzer IV and Panther. The sherman also costs more, esspecially (fuel) upkeep.

Both deal max 600 damage so both have to hit and pen each other tiwce.



Penetration (max range) Tank IV F2 vs 76 Sherman:
No AP: 62.05%
AP: 82.53%

Penetration 76 sherman vs Tank IV F2:
No AP: 67.5%
AP: 104%




Penetration Tank IV H vs 76 sherman:
No AP: 65.15%
AP: 86,65%

Penetration Tank IV H vs 76 sherman Easy Eight:
No AP: 62,85%
AP: 83,6%

Penetration Sherman 76 vs Tank IV H (skirts):
No AP: 49,68%
AP: 76.50%




I would argue the other way arround. Tank IV´s can soak too many 76 shells. Just last night in an our long match we made jokes about the Tank IV´s that bounced 76 rounds after 76 round, totally demolishing the uS armor docs shermans. And it was just the F2 version.

3-You play Armored doctrine the half of the game without a unit that can be call as a doctrine unit. Is weak and only make a difference when you take a Pershing or a SP. That doctrine should have both types of Jackson tank destroyer and the Jumbo should cost less points, because is an infantry Jumbo, not the one with the 76mm. Also, the assasult engineers should be avaiable since you build the 2nd HQ an not the 3rd, but in the 1rst HQ (the infantry HQ). If you go against an SS (Elite Panzer) your infantry does not have nothing to do vs an earlier assault pioneer

Sherman is the doctrine unit. Perhaps use Tank commander arty strike (its the first i go for for example), ammo upgrade (spares you tons of ammo you can use for arty), mass production and veterancy, war machinery.

Playing it with shermans and later supported by 90 mm tanks like jacksons and stuff is the way to go i would say.

Its currently the best US doc you can play.

Conclusion
-Armored Doctrine is a weak doctrine

its the best US doc atm. But depends on the doctrine choice of your enemie.

-Allies are OP with their 50 cal units at the very begining of the game

US is currently the weakest starting faction and the least aggressive one which sits behind AT guns praying to get not overruned by vehicle and tanks. The cal 50 is so largely delayed that the Greyhound, once the best US vehicle, has become a very rare sight. You cant really spare the fuel when you have to rush for AT guns and shermans to hold your line.

Besides cal 50 jeep there is no cal 50 unit anymore at the very beginning. But i see lots of PE and WH vehicles armed with MG´s, 20 mm guns, 28 mm AT guns and 37 mm guns at the very beginning. We must be playing different games.

-Airbone paratroopers scout are kamikazes, is just a suicide squad for a small price of 180 MP.

Just like Luft fallis dropping into several enemie units.

-You can easly win with allies playing a 4v4 match with: Infantry, RAFT, Airborne, Royal Engineer

So far i had "easy wins" for both sides. I can send replays when we (or should i say i?) crushed several CW players in a 4 vs 4 rushing lots of Tank IV´s and Tank III´s. It was just down to the fact that the rest of my team prefered to stay passive and to waste units in pointless urban fights that the game turned against us (and a lucky Kangoroo Tank).

But i wouldnt say that any side has a huge advantage currently to say "its easy to win". Up to now it was always heavily dependend on team synergy, teamplay and how players used their doctrines.

But saying one side is drastically OP right now is just wrong. And we played quite many games with experienced and less experienced players.





So, as the topic already exists the few things i would like to mention what i think should be adressed:

1. Give 76 gun a buff. It becomes more and more a joke how badly it performs with heavy AT guns from ambush bouncing from early model Tank IV´s, M10 ambush fails or situation where an Tank IV H runs into two e8 shermans, gets its engined destroyed and from then on bouncing 3 shots and killing the sherman in return.

Basically i would say that the 75 mm sherman should almost perform like the current 76 sherman and the 76 guns becoming better against all axis early medium tanks.


2. Basic Rangers should be unlocked after 2 CP, not 4. So far on Discord everyone agreed on that

3. Fix Rangers TT so that they are not more vulnerable to snipers than any other (elite)inf

4. Increase recon limit

5. Adjust schwimmwagens MG so that it doesnt outperform every other MG34 in game anymore by such a large ammount.

6. The cal 50 unlock should cost 15 fuel and 15 ammo instead of 30 fuel.

7. Stuart should perhaps not require the Motorpool upgrade. The unit comes often so late and can essentially be countered by units that are right away available for axis (HR game) like 50 mm AT, AT rife, 28 mm vehicles, 50 mm Puma, 75 mm vehicles etc.
It should also not be a reward for Chaffe. Instead make both available just that chaffe requires the motorpool upgrade.
But current stuart is kinda pointless and is not competetive compared to other units available at that time.

8. US Strafe should have AP rounds right away.

9. Hopefully officers get some tweaks as proposed in various officer topics.

10. Think about spreading the Stug III accross more factions and doctrines. Their abilties can afterall be locked behind CP paywalls and certain tec requirments. And certain abilties being dependend on the doctrine choice.

I would honestly prefer to see a few more stugs as the german Standard AFV rather than the F2.

11. There is no point in having a unit cap of one Priest for Inf doc. I have to get this unit perhaps once in ten games, it requires lots of tec and CP. But in the very few instances where i might be happy to have a second in order to maintain a certain arty dominance it would be nice to have a second available, esspecially when it comes to artillery exchanges with def doc.
But in all the games there was just one instance i really wished a second priest and never had to encounter any from inf doc.

12. Fix the Jumbos sherman rear armor values. I am sick of seing it being penetrated by 50 mm guns and stuff that are not facing the direct front.
Its a heavy tank with thick side armor just like Tiger and churchill. So its not just the front that has good armor. So pls, treat it like a Tiger/churchill in this regard.

13. The sector Propaganda is currently extremley abusiv and can be spammed literally non stop.

14. Ostwind and Wirbelwind are currently extremely cheap and spamable.

15. Make the quad 20 mm to be more like a 20 mm and not like an HMG42 with AP rounds and the single 20 mm less like a bofors gun. Pls.

16. Can you take a look at the M16? Right now it feels like its not more effective vs inf as a single M20 or cal 50 jeep.

17. Do something with the Tank support doc. The current layout is simply boring. Spam Rifle inf, chose TD (bc there is no point using the Tanks for this ammount of CP), 4 CP for an lmg...

Jackson tank destroyers are pretty weak and I dont see why adding them into the doctrine will make it better. If anything it would probably make it weaker. And the 75/76 mm jumbo are not that much different, the 75mm is quite better against infantry while the 76 is... a 76... but I agree the 75mm cost quite alot of cp's. That when it comes out everything is able to pen if not oneshot it.

I dont think 6 CP is too much for it in armor doc.
I would add a slight buff to it against Tiger 88 and flak 36 as well as fixing its side/rear armor values so that not every single peashooter pens it.

[MEFISTO]

There is no point to compare airborne scouts with pioneers because you can drop them behind enemies Mg with no need to flank or have any strategy it’s a 180mp click, and you can have them at the begging of the game, also it’s like to have scouts in any part of the map just for 180mp with no need to go through enemies line or avoid enemies scouts. This their performing right now: real function- drop supplies but also scouts that you can drop in any place of the map, kill enemies defenses with no need to flank at a low 180mp cost( some players abuse of this specially if there are two airborne doctrines) kill snipers just dropping on it at a low cost... etc

[Warhawks97]

Just make them require the 101st unlock? would that solve it if the issue is that they come too early?

Idk what they currently cost. But making them too expensive would severly hamper AB operations since they are vital for entire operations.

[MEFISTO]

Just make them require the 101st unlock? would that solve it if the issue is that they come too early?

Idk what they currently cost. But making them too expensive would severly hamper AB operations since they are vital for entire operations.

They are like scouts so just one of them will be in off for the same price and capabilities and they won’t be a threat no more, just like artillery CW scout. I think

[CGarr]

I want to respond but this thread is all over the place and I'm not sure what it's overall goal is.

@Sparrow: AB has fuck all late game power, it can easily be stomped by panther spam since they have enough armor to bounce inf AT and are fast enough to not get airstriked if the axis player is paying attention. This is the trade-off for the early game power derived from the positioning advantages that AB has. If you're having trouble with AB, play BK doc more. AB doesn't do well against blitz, it has no advantages (AB inf loses to blitz inf, AB armor loses to blitz armor, AB everything will get mopped by a well micro'd panther, airstrikes probably wont hit often if the axis player isn't static since the planes are slow).

@Red: Agreed on all points.

@Hawks: You presented 17 different ideas in one thread, it's going to be difficult to address each individual point at sufficient length without turning this thread into a complete mess. Split them into individual threads, I know you and others have already done so for a few of those points. They're good points, but make individual posts for the ones that don't already have their own if you want them to get more attention. This thread is like PanzerFather's, except the points in this one are (for the most part) actually valid and demonstrably have an effect on the game.

@Mefisto: I would support changing them to be a single man squad.

[Dick Winters]

It is true that there are many things to adjust in the beta but it seems to me that the point of the American 50 caliber you are wrongly fixed, if so, as this is the beta, you have never won an ally with its 50 caliber, imagine if the nerf protest for things. that really matter as the German bunker does not break or throw artillery or airborne aircraft it is almost impossible to break it only breaks with an explosive charge which if well protected is difficult to hit to detonate it is a matter of logic that breaks when you throw it the artillery or you pass the airborne bombardment not only to the bunker but also to the houses where artillery is often shot or the airborne bombardment and many times everything is left intact and we are talking about a good amount of ammunition and that for the good of the game and make it real that must be destroyed

[Dick Winters]

Remember that it is an infiltration unit which its objective is to deploy behind enemy lines and deploy troops, thus camping on enemy terrain. It seems to me that there are more broken units in the game and they are not paying as much attention to it. regards

[kwok]

woah there's a lot of suggestions here...... can we break it out to smaller threads?