Adding officer squad to Propaganda doctrine

[sgtToni95]

Hi everyone,

I must say i only played a few games as Propaganda in the beta version of the game. I really like this doctrine and how forgiving it is with infantry losses.

Having to manage 4/5 inf squads at the same time is still quite micro intense, expecially because you often need some kind of support, coming from officer, nearby vehicles or tech tree abilities.

My suggestion is honestly not based on balance, so it might just be ignored, but i feel like 1 more officer might fit well in this doctrine.

What i have in mind tho, is not just adding 1 to the officer's unit popcap, but I was thinking more on a slightly different one, more focused on defensive abilities/buffs.

It would be similar to brits Lt vs Cpt bonuses, so the current officer would stay, with his "inspired charge", mortar barrage and all the "more offensive" abilities, while the 2nd one would:
- give defensive bonuses in own territory;
- have priority over the "offensive officer" as a retreat point for infantry and for the other officer, maybe being the "automatic retreat" destination instead of base once it's deployed;
- have as a special ability some sector timed ability, costing ammo, that would make enemy inf squads automatically retreat once they enter it (I think terror doctrine already had it) or something different but in the form of a timed sector ability.

This is a pretty new idea and i didn't think too much on it, so i apologize for not making a proper post with pictures and coloured arrows, but i'd like to hear what people think about it.

[Walderschmidt]

I think it would be an interesting idea. Curious what other people think.

Wald

[Stormtrooper]

I like this idea. It adds more possibilites and makes infatry units more agile with those abilities you mentioned.

[MenciusMoldbug]

I wanted to make the propaganda officer similar to the LT (can have multiple officers, but buff auras don't stack/or stack mariginally) but I wasn't sure how people would receive that.

Single officer for multiple squads encourages a lot of volkssturm blobbing. Because the officer is so crucial and the aura buff range isn't that great you gotta roll around with your giant blob of guys to make the best use of them. So I was thinking more officer squads would help alleviate this issue. Only problem would be the retreating mechanic to officer but your solution or just having the deployable retreat point be only second type of retreat would fix that.

I just really want the MP40 unlock for volkssturm to be buffed (they should get MP40's for free instead of buying them as that's too much of a hassle for already macro-ing a bunch of volkssturm squads). I was thinking the MP40 unlock also gives the volkssturm officer squad the ability to get 3 MP40's as an upgrade, since he pretty much always is fighting on the frontline with his militia. I wish the early game hitting power of propaganda was buffed a little more so there was a real dicey option on whether you want MP40's for your volkssturm or would you rather stay on target and rush for tiger/walking stuka.

EDIT:

Gonna take officer talk a little more ahead because I'm just getting ideas all together now.

I've been thinking since propaganda has essentially militia units and the doctrine depends on you picking it within the first minute to take full advantage of it. Why not make Propaganda Officer and normal Officer two different units? Normal Officer can supervise and become a retreat point while Propaganda Officer can't. Instead you can make multiple Propaganda Officers, that you can build from the wehrmacht quarters without needing any further teching or tiering. So you can get them in the game as early as 2 minutes. Their job is to support other infantry units with buffs and de-buff enemy units that get to close within the early game. They still have the normal officer aura buffs but they don't stack if you have multiple propaganda officers together, it's to give incentive splitting your units out more. This kind of off-sets having super weak infantry because you can aura buff them very early on and officer aura buffs are no joke when positioned and used correctly.

[CGarr]

I wanted to make the propaganda officer similar to the LT (can have multiple officers, but buff auras don't stack/or stack mariginally) but I wasn't sure how people would receive that.

Single officer for multiple squads encourages a lot of volkssturm blobbing. Because the officer is so crucial and the aura buff range isn't that great you gotta roll around with your giant blob of guys to make the best use of them. So I was thinking more officer squads would help alleviate this issue. Only problem would be the retreating mechanic to officer but your solution or just having the deployable retreat point be only second type of retreat would fix that.

I just really want the MP40 unlock for volkssturm to be buffed (they should get MP40's for free instead of buying them as that's too much of a hassle for already macro-ing a bunch of volkssturm squads). I was thinking the MP40 unlock also gives the volkssturm officer squad the ability to get 3 MP40's as an upgrade, since he pretty much always is fighting on the frontline with his militia. I wish the early game hitting power of propaganda was buffed a little more so there was a real dicey option on whether you want MP40's for your volkssturm or would you rather stay on target and rush for tiger/walking stuka.

EDIT:

Gonna take officer talk a little more ahead because I'm just getting ideas all together now.

I've been thinking since propaganda has essentially militia units and the doctrine depends on you picking it within the first minute to take full advantage of it. Why not make Propaganda Officer and normal Officer two different units? Normal Officer can supervise and become a retreat point while Propaganda Officer can't. Instead you can make multiple Propaganda Officers, that you can build from the wehrmacht quarters without needing any further teching or tiering. So you can get them in the game as early as 2 minutes. Their job is to support other infantry units with buffs and de-buff enemy units that get to close within the early game. They still have the normal officer aura buffs but they don't stack if you have multiple propaganda officers together, it's to give incentive splitting your units out more. This kind of off-sets having super weak infantry because you can aura buff them very early on and officer aura buffs are no joke when positioned and used correctly.

I agree on the suggestion to bring back the normal officer and up the unit cap for the propaganda one, seems like the ideal fix for the issue you brought up. I still think the Heavy Officer Squad I suggested in this thread would be a nice addition, possibly in exchange for a nerf to vsturm offensive capabilities if the 2 synergize too well: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3322&p=31564&hilit=officer#p31564

(I was replying to a thread regarding vsturms, a unit I personally believe should serve as little more than a meatshield to throw in trenches to keep people busy.)

Seeing as how the unit isn't meant for fighting 1v1 and how grouping them can be an issue due to their low durability, I think I can agree with the last part of this post regarding the notion that the doctrine's core inf should be more heavily reliant on supports rather than their own (lacking) strength. As such, I think we should look into ironing out the supporting roster of units rather than focusing on Vsturms themselves, and in saying this I still stand by the idea of having a defensively oriented heavy officer support squad as a complement to these weak filler units and the relatively high micro normal officer squads would allow for players to at least have a firm grip on whatever area said heavy squad is in through firepower rather than use of abilities, allowing players to use the doc in a similar fashion to how airborne docs are used in the other factions while still retaining its unique nature. You would still be stuck with weak core infantry options that are made viable through the presence of officers, but the skill barrier would be slightly lowered by at least giving players a safety net of at least one forward area that they can fall to if they aren't able to hold out on other fronts with Vsturms and the other (more offensive oriented) officer squad.

This heavy officer squad shouldn't have any abilities other than passive buffs and some sort of "hunker down" ability that provides a large durability buff (at the cost of significantly reduced firepower, the intent being to hold out in their position until support can arrive) to units in cover and binos, instead using it's high long range anti inf firepower to stave off incoming attacks while still retaining some sort of vulnerability (anything with wheels/tracks) to prevent it from being some sort of super unit. I suggested the hunker down idea as a means of mirroring the utility of "heroic charge" abilities but flipping the priority to defense instead of offense. In addition to this I think a decrease in movement speed outside of friendly territory (similar to brit inf) would make sense for this unit, as again the main point in having it would be to help secure a foothold to hold out from assuming the player fails to hold any ground with the Vsturms (most likely the case with their given stats). Terror would still be forced to be on the defense with its main fighting force while trying to envelope the enemy or at least hold ground using the Vsturms as a wall of meat rather than a precise tool for breaking through lines.

From what I've interpreted of the devteam's responses, the new doc revolves around being able to survive into late game despite having the worst mainline inf roster of any doctrine. This goal is intended to be achieved through the use of very strong support units that are limited in number either due to unit cap (officers) or high cost (heavies, arty). The unit I'm proposing would fall in line with that concept, and seeing as how the airborne command squad and PE heavy SS squads aren't game breakingly strong, I don't see how a copy of the latter with an officer aura, decreased mobility and less abilities would cause many issues even at a higher level of play, yet it's addition would make the doctrine much more attractive to players of average or low skill than it currently is. The doctrine would still retain it's high-risk/high-reward nature at higher levels of play through its ability to take large amounts of ground by capping around the enemy, helping it snowball into heavy tanks and powerful arty, but until that late stage, the doctrine would be on the backfoot in the majority of engagements, especially against light vehicles and allied elite troops which come at a much earlier stage than terror can get it's signature heavies and arty. Even in the late game their inf would have trouble taking ground if the armor support is nullified, as many allied doctrines outshine it in terms of volume of indirect fire, and the inf themselves would be hot garbage in a fight against vetted elite allied inf. They would be relegated to defensive roles aside from maybe the act of capping resource points and scouting, where they are safe within trenches and supported by the proposed heavy command squad in the event of a concentrated enemy infantry attack. They would still be extremely vulnerable to armor without the aid of their own armor support, again going back to the doctrines reliance on investing large amounts of resources into very few units to support their otherwise weak force.