luft & ra beta

[Viper]

i mostly have bugs to report, mixed with some suggestions.




luft doc has only 28 command points total, not 30 points....so add 2 points to the panther unlock and reduce its cost again to what it was.

the new 250/9 haltrack with 20mm in terror used to have suppression ability when it was in PE.
why it doesn't have it anymore in propaganda doctrine?

i upgraded Fallschirmjager with FG42 twice, so i got 4 additional FG42 and 1 by default, so total 5 FG42 + 1 MP40 in the squad......but guess what happened after i purchased the schreck........I lost 1 FG42 the guy with MP40 should be the one to pick the schreck..................

also the mp40 sound is mixed with fg42 sound in fallschirmjager squad.

fallschirmjager & gebirgsjager for 550 mp are way too expensive now. gebrigs can't reinforce from the air anymore.......how is increasing the squad limit to 3 going to be any helpful when they cost so much and still too manny ammunition to upgrade?
reduce fallschirmjager & gebirgsjager luftwaffe paratroopers cost to 450 manpower.

the henschel is a joke.........only 1 plane, dies very quickly, costs 200 ammo and hits nothing............and recharges in 230 seconds.
replace it with fw-190 with the old bombs from v4.8.x




stug4 early version in propaganda doctrine and always disabled, it shouldn't be there.

global propaganda ability (40 ammo) is bugged and activates only for 1 seconds. but sector propaganda & officer propaganda work fine.

panzer4.j (command tank also) requires the wrong unlock.....it should require upgraded production unlock or panzer4 unlock.
but currently it requires stug unlock

officer in blitzkrieg doctrine & defensive doctrines have propaganda ability but cant use it.

stupa is not available anywhere to deploy (i think panther.A is taking the slot and so the stupa disappeared).

terror officer unit take too long to reinforce.

WH medic center has very small healing area, but USA medic station has big area.

allow tiger late & early together, not reward for each others.



6pdr in brit HQ is always disabled.

you can make canadian troop more unique by allowing them to upgrade bazooka and thompsons instead of bren and rifle grenade.

why does dingo in reward menu show wasp icon?



scott deals way too low damage to everything.


in general im starting to feel the changes are OK, but fix the bugs and check the small suggestions.

[MarKr]

- Missing CPs in Luft is an oversight. The tank unlocks should be 2CP -> 3CP (instead of 1CP -> 2CP) will be fixed.
- 250/9 in Propaganda does not need the suppression ability. It was deemed it would make the vehicle too versatile and remove any need to build anything else for getting suppression in Propaganda, especially in early game.
- Upgrades for Fallshirms: I just did a quick test and the Panszerschrek was given to the last soldier with MP40. Did you do something more specific when the Schreck was replaced FG42?
- We're aware of the sounds of MP40/FG42 but we're not sure if it can be fixed. It is not a big deal, though.
- The Dingo in reward menu is a wrong text. The reward choice is now Wasp/Bren. Dingo is always available.

I'll check the rest.
Thanks for the feedback.

[Viper]

- Upgrades for Fallshirms: I just did a quick test and the Panszerschrek was given to the last soldier with MP40. Did you do something more specific when the Schreck was replaced FG42?

it's random i think. but happens more often if you upgrade fg42s first then the panzershreck.

- We're aware of the sounds of MP40/FG42 but we're not sure if it can be fixed. It is not a big deal, though.

luft pioneers had this bug long time ago and it was fixed, so i think it should be fixable.



one more thing, panzer elite buildings have useless ability called "registered artillery" for 150 ammo. the buildings call mortar artillery on themselves!
i think this ability should be removed from the buildings. and instead becomes unlock in scorched earth doctrine to call artillery on friendly points to prevent enemy from capturing them. same of what defensive doctrine has.

edit:
gebirgsjager gain bonus from luftwaffe officer unit......but retreats to normal officer unit

[MarKr]

luft pioneers had this bug long time ago and it was fixed, so i think it should be fixable.

The fix used back then for Pios won't be possible to apply in this case.

gebirgsjager gain bonus from luftwaffe officer unit......but retreats to normal officer unit

This is intentional. The "alternative" retreat is used to go to some sort of area where a unit can recover. Fallshirms can reinforce anywhere so they retreat to the command squad and they can refill their losses there. Gebirgs can no longer reinforce anywhere - they need some HQ, FHQ or HT to reinforce, so the desire would be to fall back to some such location rather than where the Luft command squad might be.

[mofetagalactica]

CW has his triage center with old price 300 mp

[MarKr]

CW has his triage center with old price 300 mp

Confirmed, will be fixed. Thanks for reporting.

[Gurkenkilla]

CW HQ has same flag as US HQ on it.

[Viper]

i think in royal artillery doctrine, 57mm churchill should need 2 points, and firefly 3 points.....not the opposite.

and why was fw-190 removed back then? i think the model was fine........the henschel is really bad. fw190 will be much better.

[Panzerblitz1]

FW190 is bugged and can’t be used...for now.

[Viper]

FW190 is bugged and can’t be used...for now.

bugged how exactly?

is it the wrecked model ?
i remember the wrecked model has no damage texture when crashed into the ground...........but thats not big deal.
fw190 was used from 481 until 493 (more than 10 versions) and it was great vs infantry, tanks and emplacements.....and not op like henschel patrol.
so we hope to see again the fw190 back to the game soon. because 1 henschel is not worth it.

[kwok]

If my memory serves me correct, it’s a combo of a bugged model and no permission to use.

[MarKr]

so we hope to see again the fw190 back to the game soon. because 1 henschel is not worth it.

permision for using the model was removed so don't hope for its return.
"1 Henschel isn't worth it" seems like hugely subjective point if view. The plane still shoots at vehicles along its fight path so it can kill stuff even outside the "strike zone" the plane still aims so as an only plabe it can hit moving targets directly.
And as for survivability - it had the same "armor type" as other planes which means it is just as easy/difficult to hit as any other plane and takes the same damage as any other plane. However, it has more HP than other planes which means it is more durable. If it "dies quickly" then by all available evidence it seems it was sent into a firezone of several AA units.

[Viper]

and what do you kill with 1 henschel ?? it kills nothing. only damage things.

airborne and royal air force have rocket strike + bombs and both can kill much..........not only tanks.

and 1 henschel cost 200 ammo??? so, 1 henschel = cost of 5 henschels ???

if there is no replacement to henschel, it should not cost more than 100 ammo.

edit;
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3460
beta 3v3 pvp

[kwok]

A price adjustment might make sense but I don’t think less than a 100 is right... like markr said, this plane strafes the entire map as opposed to uses a pinpoint high damage attack. The reason why the panther was left in the doctrine was to give options to kill heavy armor with combined arms instead of easy point and click. A combo of a henshel and panther would probably be enough to kill the heaviest allied armor effectively while still holding a unit to be able to fight off medium tanks reliably. whereas for allied units have a strong combo of air strike and tank destroyers, there is a much higher chance to miss and tank destroyers are not reliable aggressor units against medium tanks. The often mentioned Achilles for example is basically “countered” over time by medium tanks because it’s just not as cost effective but still reliably penetrated.

Don’t forget there is an upgrade that makes air strikes cheaper within Luft now. So try upgrading that in combo with panzer 4s before blanket cost reducing.

[MarKr]

and what do you kill with 1 henschel ?? it kills nothing. only damage things.

As kwok said - some price adjustment is possible but it seems weird to hear that "1 Henschel cannot kill anything" when people in the past complained how even a single Henschel can kill several of their vehicles/tanks while the Henschel is flying towards the "hit zone". The effectiveness of Henschel cannon has not been changed so it should perform the same as before. Ofcourse, Henschels have always had the option to cause a critical hit (destroyed main gun/engine etc.) so it can still happen that a vehicle gets some damage and survives but that has always been the case, even with allied planes (rocktes/bombgs). However, if you have some replays to show that Henschels perform very poorly even with proper usage, don't hesitate to post it.

[Viper]

henschels were deemed op because they were many. and each one of them hit targets in their flight route.......but 1 henschel is never enough to scare anyone. so price reduction will make sense. i did not say less than 100 but not much more. so 100 minimum.

and cost reduction to luftwaffe paratroopers (i dont know why they still cost 550mp although now they need to upgrade their weapons) and cost reduction to panther (after adding 2 missing command points) are all reasonable balance tweaks.

[mofetagalactica]

Luft plane prices are pretty fine, it also seems that the stupa plane got buffed and when you unlock henschell you can instantly buy the upgrade to make all planes cheaper.

The only thing that would need to be properly revised are Gebirgsjägers still having old price even when they can't be reinforced from air anymore wich is a good nerf.

And the fallschs droping with fully mp40's are pretty bad, i would preffer them spawning with kar's with the possibility to upgrade into ghewers, fg42's and 'zooka, the reason for this suggestion is that mp40's don't work well on them from the start because you don't really have his treeline fully unlocked wich means they will not endure enough to do running assaults while having to suffer from model losses that has high cost, wich ends up being a waste on MP resources, if your objective was to just delay them until you have half their buffs unlocked then keep them this way, if that wasn't the intention then i would suggest that they start with long weapons.

The same kinda happens with smg commandos (not royal navy ones), peopple preffer to do enfield commandos if they don't have the survavility upgrades unlocked.

[kwok]

And the fallschs droping with fully mp40's are pretty bad, i would preffer them spawning with kar's with the possibility to upgrade into ghewers, fg42's and zookas.

How would this make them any different than gebirgs?

[mofetagalactica]

And the fallschs droping with fully mp40's are pretty bad, i would preffer them spawning with kar's with the possibility to upgrade into ghewers, fg42's and zookas.

How would this make them any different than gebirgs?

Already being able to paradroop make's them behave way different than gebirgs, and the addition of ghewers to have a cheap weapon upgrade choice that isn't the expensive fg42's.

[MarKr]

The current set up provides clear distinction - unupgraded Fallshirms are better at close range, unupgraded Gebirgs are better at longer ranges.

Compared to Kar98, both of G43 and FG42 provide better RoF and thus higher potential "DPS" at the cost of slight accuracy drop but FG42 outperforms G43. In the end, I would say, most people would rather save up those extra 25 ammo and buy the FG42 simply because of better performance, making the G43 rarely used upgrade. Sure, dropping Fallshirms with Kar98 and giving them G43 and/or FG42 upgrades would make them more versatile but does every doc-specific infantry need to be highly versatile in available weapon upgrades?

[kwok]

Also was literally my idea ages ago and suggested to consolidate the gebirgs/fj5. Was met with the biggest whining when the units were literally the same exact thing.

[MenciusMoldbug]

Can we give gebirgs a marksman ability similar to the one the british infantry section has? I always felt like this ability fit them the most and it could be a compensation for not being able to paradrop anymore. They cost pretty much the same as the hauptman heavy squad now and that squad comes with a sniper model in it.

[Warhawks97]

Can we give gebirgs a marksman ability similar to the one the british infantry section has? I always felt like this ability fit them the most and it could be a compensation for not being able to paradrop anymore. They cost pretty much the same as the hauptman heavy squad now and that squad comes with a sniper model in it.

In vcoh the rifle squad required a scoped rifle upgrade in order to be able to use this ability.
To be honest, i wonder why it isnt the case in bk anymore. There is space for a third upgrade.

Like give CW rifle squad an upgrade that adds one or two scoped rifles which have increased basic accuracy and adds the sniper shot ability.

Same could be done for gebis. Once they get scoped G43´s they can also use a sniper shot ability. Question is: Is there any UI space left?

[MarKr]

To be honest, i wonder why it isnt the case in bk anymore. There is space for a third upgrade.

Like give CW rifle squad an upgrade that adds one or two scoped rifles which have increased basic accuracy and adds the sniper shot ability.

They have the upgrade from the start. If you zoom in on the squad you'll see that there is one soldier with scoped enfield and that's the one taking the marksman shot.

However, CW infantry had this ability because they have no snipers of their own. PE can get snipers (except for TH) so they can use them.

[Viper]

loadout of luftwaffe paratroopers are fine, but their price is not.......way too high.

should be 400 or 450 mp