5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

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mofetagalactica
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby mofetagalactica » 28 Jul 2019, 15:00

Black Panther wrote:Any ETA on new doctrine?

Tho, I played few pvp games on beta, I can say it's pretty much unnoticable change now, despite grenadiers vs riflemen combat ofc.
Captain's riflemen were deleted, while WM can now proceed to T2 and have access to Grenadiers right away, which can be abused...


I've tried abusing green starting spam, wich isn't even that good because of the unit cost and if you don't play it real gangsta you will instantly lose the game because of it, high risk - high reward.
You're free to try it out and post replays about it, early jeep and early 50cals will make you bleed a lot of mp.

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Warhawks97 » 28 Jul 2019, 15:30

mofetagalactica wrote:
I've tried abusing green starting spam, wich isn't even that good because of the unit cost and if you don't play it real gangsta you will instantly lose the game because of it, high risk - high reward. Eearly jeep and early 50cals will make you bleed a lot of mp.



Cal 50 jeeps are a big investment, too, delaying tec. So its also a big risk-high reward thing. In Standard res games its often too risky to spend over 300 MP and fuel into something that blows up as quickly as a jeep.

Other cal 50´s are available usually just with Motorpool.

In Standard res games you can get normal grens much quicker now, well before US vehicle stage.

And Grens cost 33 per men and less upkeep than rifles. So you can say that the bleedout is the same as with rifles or less since Grens survive significantly longer in combat.

But that brought me to another idea. What if we would have kept weapon stats and instead making grens available right after first HQ upgrade instead of having second building as requirment. Also HMG42 cost drop.

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Black Panther
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Black Panther » 28 Jul 2019, 18:05

mofetagalactica wrote:
Black Panther wrote:Any ETA on new doctrine?

Tho, I played few pvp games on beta, I can say it's pretty much unnoticable change now, despite grenadiers vs riflemen combat ofc.
Captain's riflemen were deleted, while WM can now proceed to T2 and have access to Grenadiers right away, which can be abused...


I've tried abusing green starting spam, wich isn't even that good because of the unit cost and if you don't play it real gangsta you will instantly lose the game because of it, high risk - high reward.
You're free to try it out and post replays about it, early jeep and early 50cals will make you bleed a lot of mp.

Basically as Hawks stated it. It didn't work before, it works now. You easily can make 3 of them on high res game, US player will just have to spend all free mp, not counting 2 standart rifle squads, on tiering up

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mofetagalactica
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby mofetagalactica » 29 Jul 2019, 00:23

Like i said, try it on pvp beta, it will not work as you think, i already tried every exploit on the opening, even on standard.
And then after that post replays.

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Black Panther
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Black Panther » 29 Jul 2019, 06:04

mofetagalactica wrote:Like i said, try it on pvp beta, it will not work as you think, i already tried every exploit on the opening, even on standard.
And then after that post replays.

I don't know whom against it worked, but it's pretty abusable on my side.
Post replay, to show us that Grens on high res is not abusable.
Dude, do you even realise how deadly it will be on tight 2v2 map?

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Warhawks97 » 29 Jul 2019, 19:11

mofetagalactica wrote:Like i said, try it on pvp beta, it will not work as you think, i already tried every exploit on the opening, even on standard.
And then after that post replays.



you proofed it in your own 1 vs 1 on 2 vs 2 map vs kwok (uploaded on previous pages). The only thing that prevented a landsilde victory was your over cautioness and relatively passive playing and the believe that kwok would have tons of res. I already made the comments on that replay minute for minute. What we dont have is a proof that there is anything that could stop a Gren spam (backed by a AT gun, 20 mm car or AT rifles when playing BK doc). In HR games US my get motorpool right away but not the fuel for a vehicle outright. So you are up with rifles/sniper and stuff to stop them only while grens can also receive support from various units of the second building and the HQ. Up till now nobody really tried the strategy with gren spam in a really large scale and aggressive.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Tiger1996 » 08 Aug 2019, 03:55

Finally able to provide some little feedback here, as I also have a really interesting 2v2 PvP BETA match that i will be uploading in a few days...
in terms of FIXED bugs, everything seems to be fine so far.. until now! Ex; the Elefant ALRS is working properly now, etc.

Right now though, here are my thoughts:

- First of all, I like the new way of building empty emplacements that can later be occupied by Leig18, 50mm or 75mm PAKs using the 28mm Halftrack.
And I think it should stay as such... Good change.

- Kar changes are fine, but honestly the M1 Garand now feels a little bit too weak.. even at close range.

- MP40 for Grenadiers in Blitz doc ??!! NOPE, NOPE again.
I think Grenadiers should be removed altogether from the Blitz doctrine.. and limit removed from StormTroops, while receiving LMG42 upgrade instead of LMG34 and becoming the core Blitz doc elite inf unit.. thus the Pz3.N off-map will provide Storms with MP44s upgraded and no longer Grenadiers.

- Speaking more of Blitz doc, do i actually have to repeat that Pz4 should be earlier available and that Stug4 should require some CPs in return?
I just would wish this could happen sooner than later.

- Current ammo upkeep(s) values are killing the game-play on most maps.. camping becomes the most common tactic.
Munition upkeep values need to be tuned down...

- Axis TDs are now revealed on the first ambush strike, right?
That's OK.. but hey, the re-hide time is insanely LONG at the moment.

EDIT:
MarKr wrote:- 7 men Riflemen squad is no longer available (this is temporal and will be re-introduced when we get to adjusting commander infantry)

They are still available btw.
And now I see that normal Riflemen squads can upgrade BAR only once? Hmm.. also just 1x BAR for 45 ammo? I think at least it should be 2x ones.

That's all I have to say for now, more later.

Walderschmidt
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Walderschmidt » 09 Aug 2019, 07:08

pak 36 doesn't do dick against recces and therefore to me is almost worthless.

I'll make a trade, gimme back at rifles for all wehr doctrines and give ami rifles back some of their oomph. Keep volk changes.

Wald

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Warhawks97 » 09 Aug 2019, 12:14

I wonder why Recce is such a big deal? Players were used to it for like ten years. And suddenly we need silly "AT-Rifle-Guns" everywhere that totally deny pretty much all vehicles? WH has got second building avaialble before HQ upgrade and thus access to pak 38 which does a short job of recces. Whats your god damn problem when players managed to deal with Recces for years without having AT rifles.

I am glad that AT rifles got limited to one doc. And i still hope that they get changed into a support unit for Pak36 afterall rather than being a one men portable AT gun.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Tiger1996 » 10 Aug 2019, 02:55

Recce is now considered more of a pain compared to what it used to be in the past.. due to the 50.cal changes that recently came up not too long ago, making the Recce not just a perfect inf killer with great mobility and decent armory, but also a lethal vehicle killer too.

Thus, the WH AT rifle squad is definitely needed ever since then.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby mofetagalactica » 10 Aug 2019, 02:59

Warhawks97 wrote:I wonder why Recce is such a big deal? Players were used to it for like ten years. And suddenly we need silly "AT-Rifle-Guns" everywhere that totally deny pretty much all vehicles? WH has got second building avaialble before HQ upgrade and thus access to pak 38 which does a short job of recces. Whats your god damn problem when players managed to deal with Recces for years without having AT rifles.

I am glad that AT rifles got limited to one doc. And i still hope that they get changed into a support unit for Pak36 afterall rather than being a one men portable AT gun.


play the fucking gaaaaaaaaame

kwok
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby kwok » 10 Aug 2019, 03:08

Lol.... thank you figree....

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Black Panther
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Black Panther » 10 Aug 2019, 12:50

stop bullying
-respect for both of you

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Warhawks97 » 10 Aug 2019, 18:08

In the past, when units got stronger, they went up in cost. It's one thing to say we need a counter to unit x and adding a unit that counters x but which makes vyz obsolet.

We have made second building available much earlier and the 50 mm AT was always the main counter.

On top of that, the recce cal. 50 was twice as deadly vs inf than all other old cal 50 bc it had twice the accuracy at max range (0.1 had all other cal. 50. This one had 0.2) This one actually got an accuracy drop. It's rof got increased but accuracy lowered. So the difference compared prior to the change isnt as great as those of all other cal. 50. I have played pvps since cal 50 rework and the recce didn't feel so different except that it's better VS other vehicles than before.

We could have increased 37 mm pen power vs Stuart armor and increasing recce cost a bit further instead. Or the 28 and 75 mm hts made earlier available..

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Shanks
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Shanks » 11 Aug 2019, 14:29

mofetagalactica wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:I wonder why Recce is such a big deal? Players were used to it for like ten years. And suddenly we need silly "AT-Rifle-Guns" everywhere that totally deny pretty much all vehicles? WH has got second building avaialble before HQ upgrade and thus access to pak 38 which does a short job of recces. Whats your god damn problem when players managed to deal with Recces for years without having AT rifles.

I am glad that AT rifles got limited to one doc. And i still hope that they get changed into a support unit for Pak36 afterall rather than being a one men portable AT gun.


play the fucking gaaaaaaaaame


:o

Snazz
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Snazz » 15 Aug 2019, 10:07

mofetagalactica wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:I wonder why Recce is such a big deal? Players were used to it for like ten years. And suddenly we need silly "AT-Rifle-Guns" everywhere that totally deny pretty much all vehicles? WH has got second building avaialble before HQ upgrade and thus access to pak 38 which does a short job of recces. Whats your god damn problem when players managed to deal with Recces for years without having AT rifles.

I am glad that AT rifles got limited to one doc. And i still hope that they get changed into a support unit for Pak36 afterall rather than being a one men portable AT gun.


play the fucking gaaaaaaaaame


:lol:

Walderschmidt
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Walderschmidt » 16 Aug 2019, 09:24

Playing against Kwok, who played as Brits, gren spam doesn't really feel that strong to me.

Wald

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Black Panther
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Black Panther » 16 Aug 2019, 09:38

I can feel smell of Kwokuganda

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Shanks
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Re: 5.1.8 beta (Doctrine rework, update 3)

Postby Shanks » 16 Aug 2019, 11:48

It doesn't matter if the game is balanced or not, they are all my children anyway, especially Warhawks


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