CQB Squad / Axis Infantry Weaponry

[mofetagalactica]

Try to maintain this post weapon infantry focused or just very early phase where only Puma20mm and m8's are available (High Res)

Axis (WH):
So after a ton of games playing beta with my friends i have been noticing that surviving the first phases playing WH is way more harder and you have to put a lot of effort on it, we have been having cool stuff like Garands/Elite Inf stats changes/Cal.50 that has been making USA punch hard on what they are good, after all of these you're pretty much forced to play your first phases "bunkering" and hoping for the best until you're able to get your early mortar/mg.

After Beta we also had our armored cars turret rotation fixed, wich makes the Puma's harder to use them to counter light armored cars, also the medium AT (50mm) got harder to use to counter fast 50.cal vehicles since unpacking time changes were added also fixing aim time changes this makes you put a lot of awareness into them if you have to repositionate it, AT WH rifle changes also makes it way harder to use, can be outranged by m20's / 50cal jeeps / M8's.

Resuming this, beta changes seems to be aiming at being able to unlock all kind of stuff to have changes on killing your opponent in all phases of the game for example infantry having the chance to unlock jacksons to fight againts axis heavy's (I support this kind of mentality) but we still have problems with the first phases of the game mostly because german infantry weaponry hasn't been touched to focuse it in what they're good at since a lot while USA has.

My suggestion would be to have a re-look on all of the WH infantry weapon available on squads and their stats mostly the Kar98k.
Some examples like:
Kar98k having more noticeable superiority on far distance shotouts (accuracy/dmg/one shoot chances)
Ghewer being available on more WH squads. ( no changes in stats they're good enought )
MP44 Completely remaking this weapon to make them single-fire or slower burst shoot while making them more suitable for mid distance than short and kinda decent at long. (Slower ROF/ Accuracy changes)

OR

Making the PAK 36 available as either reward or simply added to WH barracks to ease up light vehicle phase, since light AT squad as lost a ton of use.

OR

Making the Second WH building buildable without lvling up phase and only having Sd.Kfz.251 HT available until you go trought second phase to unlock 20mm's pumas this is to ease up micro a little on first WH phase.

CQB:
After the Ranger improvement changes on 5.1.6 version these units got really buffed up, im afraid to say that they're even scary at long winning againts volks and if you're a little lucky even againts greens, all this maybe caused by the jackson mg that they're carrying wich dosn't seem right.

So my suggestion to balance them would be pretty much to get rid of the jackson mg and replace it with another shotgun or thompson.

[Warhawks97]

Try to maintain this post weapon infantry focused or just very early phase where only Puma20mm and m8's are available (High Res)

Axis (WH):
So after a ton of games playing beta with my friends i have been noticing that surviving the first phases playing WH is way more harder and you have to put a lot of effort on it, we have been having cool stuff like Garands/Elite Inf stats changes/Cal.50 that has been making USA punch hard on what they are good, after all of these you're pretty much forced to play your first phases "bunkering" and hoping for the best until you're able to get your early mortar/mg.


After Beta we also had our armored cars turret rotation fixed, wich makes the Puma's harder to use them to counter light armored cars, also the medium AT (50mm) got harder to use to counter fast 50.cal vehicles since unpacking time changes were added also fixing aim time changes this makes you put a lot of awareness into them if you have to repositionate it, AT WH rifle changes also makes it way harder to use, can be outranged by m20's / 50cal jeeps / M8's.

After two (and a half) game (two vs kwok and a team) i felt the same with US. Sitting on tons of ressources in mid game but cant do anything with my Motorpool. Having to sit right behind AT guns bc AT Rifles denied all movment of vehicles while Pumas can largely deny infantry as well as your vehicles, esspecially in teamwork with AT Rilfe. So in one game i dropped out early bc of that and the second was a brutal defeat when you can only use rifles and sitting behind 37 mm AT guns.

But unlike US WH at least gets its heavy punching mortar very quickly. And since jeep got changed years ago so that it can kill inf in the open, i do base my entire game arround the mortar, 50 mm AT gun (or AT rifle) and Puma which dominates all cal 50 vehicles.

In other words, both camp perhaps more, but axis always used to be extremly good in doing that. Puma and early mortar keeps you in game long enough for a comeback. After initially overruning kowk, his AT rifles in teamwork with Puma overruned me. In some cases his Puma was lucky but in the long run his puma enjoyed free movment due to static US AT weapons while my Vehicles, despite numerical supperiortiy+ lots of res to build more, couldnt do anything. They got killed outright in first engagment or chased right away escaping just narrowly, no matter where i tried to drive along, i kept denied.

Resuming this, beta changes seems to be aiming at being able to unlock all kind of stuff to have changes on killing your opponent in all phases of the game for example infantry having the chance to unlock jacksons to fight againts axis heavy's (I support this kind of mentality) but we still have problems with the first phases of the game mostly because german infantry weaponry hasn't been touched to focuse it in what they're good at since a lot while USA has.

What exactly do you mean. Only Rifle Grenade got changed from being totally crap to be somewhat usefull and its AT power was nerfed back again after being OP first.

not sure what you mean. AT rifles for easy 360 dgree coverage
My suggestion would be to have a re-look on all of the WH infantry weapon available on squads and their stats mostly the Kar98k.
Some examples like:
Kar98k having more noticeable superiority on far distance shotouts (accuracy/dmg/one shoot chances)
Ghewer being available on more WH squads. ( no changes in stats they're good enought )
MP44 Completely remaking this weapon to make them single-fire or slower burst shoot while making them more suitable for mid distance than short and kinda decent at long. (Slower ROF/ Accuracy changes)

1. Already done. Accuracy of Grens is higher than that of rangers at long range. They have twice the accuracy of rifles. Rangers are doc specific and do not count as comparision anymore. It also already has higher bullet damage (20-30 for Garand, 23-33 for K98)
2. Gewehr 43? Yes, they are seen only at PE. Thing is that this rifle is brutal and would make any Standard gren squad OP. Its rof and damage per bullet is the very good, esspecially damage per bullet is at a whole new level compared to other rifles.
3. STG43 is very good at short and mid range and better at long range than any other machine pistole. Its already a nobrainer and good for all moments. Good damage, rof, reload, short cooldowns between bursts (esspecially compared to thompson) and so on. Idk what else to buff here.
And ROF of bursts weapons in game is usually the one they had realistically. The FG42 has a higher rof even though the sounds make you think that stg is faster.

OR

Making the PAK 36 available as either reward or simply added to WH barracks to ease up light vehicle phase, since light AT squad as lost a ton of use.

I would make AT rifle squad and Pak 36 both available, but reworking AT rifles in general in return. Focusing on flexibility, deterrence, support and damage over time rather than hard hitting canon style with two shot kill mentaility. Meanwhile the Pak 36 is there to work as a hard hitting weapon to be placed at important locations, while AT rifle squad can be easily deployed for forward operations, harassment/skirmishing and flank protection.

OR

Making the Second WH building buildable without lvling up phase and only having Sd.Kfz.251 HT available until you go trought second phase to unlock 20mm's pumas this is to ease up micro a little on first WH phase.

I´d like to rework the unlock system of all factions anyway. As for WH i would also like to change buildings more to what they were in vcoh. Second building logistical support and AT weapons (All HT´s and all AT guns, third one assault guns and heavily armroed cars and rocket arty, last one simply a tank factory instead dividing into tank factory and heavy tank factory. The buildings wouldnt require each other and instead only the HQ upgrade.
And for other factions similiar flexibility.
But this would grant WH a big advantage if all others keep the way they are.

CQB:
After the Ranger improvement changes on 5.1.6 version these units got really buffed up, im afraid to say that they're even scary at long winning againts volks and if you're a little lucky even againts greens, all this maybe caused by the jackson mg that they're carrying wich dosn't seem right.

So my suggestion to balance them would be pretty much to get rid of the jackson mg and replace it with another shotgun or thompson.

I hadnt much success. Used them to overcome an 50 mm AT gun next ton a building. Simple volks with mp40 whiped them out before they could kill a second men from the AT gun.

Havent used them in long range though. But i am sure that any inf squad with lmg could stand a chance.

[MenciusMoldbug]

CQB staying power has more to do with how their camouflage and ambush system works. Something that should be fixed in a patch that touches almost all the ambush/camouflage systems on units in the game. Basically every time a CQB squad member goes invisible in mid-battle and fires out of camouflage they get their first strike ambush bonus for those shots (I'm not sure but I think the bonus was +25% acc and +25% damage? The accuracy bonus is something you get at vet 5 with the squad normally). So the Thompson SMG being fired from ambush becomes the Sniper-Thompson SMG. Same goes for those LMG's they are carrying and even that shotgun too. Considering how fast everything camouflages when they are in cover while still shooting; these guys are no exceptions to firing with ambush bonuses despite already having been revealed.

[mofetagalactica]

After two (and a half) game (two vs kwok and a team) i felt the same with US. Sitting on tons of ressources in mid game but cant do anything with my Motorpool. Having to sit right behind AT guns bc AT Rifles denied all movment of vehicles while Pumas can largely deny infantry as well as your vehicles, esspecially in teamwork with AT Rilfe. So in one game i dropped out early bc of that and the second was a brutal defeat when you can only use rifles and sitting behind 37 mm AT guns.

But unlike US WH at least gets its heavy punching mortar very quickly. And since jeep got changed years ago so that it can kill inf in the open, i do base my entire game arround the mortar, 50 mm AT gun (or AT rifle) and Puma which dominates all cal 50 vehicles.

In other words, both camp perhaps more, but axis always used to be extremly good in doing that. Puma and early mortar keeps you in game long enough for a comeback. After initially overruning kowk, his AT rifles in teamwork with Puma overruned me. In some cases his Puma was lucky but in the long run his puma enjoyed free movment due to static US AT weapons while my Vehicles, despite numerical supperiortiy+ lots of res to build more, couldnt do anything. They got killed outright in first engagment or chased right away escaping just narrowly, no matter where i tried to drive along, i kept denied.

So, i don't understand you're trying to say that you have to "bunker up" in this early phase playing as US after 2 and half games, even when 50.cal outranges AT squads (and miss a lot than before), and you have to put less micro on base building and teching up since you have your 3 starting buildings made since start, and you can also get your heavy punch mortar earlier than WH (inf doc), They also removed the silly bonus damage when infantry was supressed with the mg42 so its kinda to normal mg level now.

If you feel like the enemy is going to rush puma 20mm you can just rush your 57mm halftrack way faster for just 20F , cheaper than pumas.

I think you should keep playing a few more games on the beta the puma and at squad isn't that silly anymore after nerfs and changes to turret speed rotation.

[Warhawks97]

So, i don't understand you're trying to say that you have to "bunker up" in this early phase playing as US after 2 and half games, even when 50.cal outranges AT squads (and miss a lot than before), and you have to put less micro on base building and teching up since you have your 3 starting buildings made since start, and you can also get your heavy punch mortar earlier than WH (inf doc), They also removed the silly bonus damage when infantry was supressed with the mg42 so its kinda to normal mg level now.

If you feel like the enemy is going to rush puma 20mm you can just rush your 57mm halftrack way faster for just 20F , cheaper than pumas.

I think you should keep playing a few more games on the beta the puma and at squad isn't that silly anymore after nerfs and changes to turret speed rotation.

1. I play standard res, so no three buildings right away.
2. Even if on high res, Motorpool makes little sence with AT rifles. Its not that players put them in the open just to die from a single cal 50 burst. And idk how cal 50 outranges AT squads.
3. Yes, 57 mm is good and its the only reason to get Motorpool atm. If i wouldnt have to get the motorpool for supply yard and tank depot, i wouldnt build it except for 57 mm AT. But they are bad for attacking Pumas and thus you remain passive afterall. I tried to chase Pumas with 57 but you either fail to hit or puma survives first hit or the AT rifle squads rushing towards your 57 mm AT HT. You try to escape from them but then you get chased by Puma itself which you actually tried to chase at first. So afterall you have to stay passive untill calli jeep and mortar come up. Depending on map, like when you can make full use of the 360 dgree fire arc of AT rifles, you need two rifle squads, 57 mm and M20 to beat a Puma and two AT rifle squads. And better you cluster the area with calli jeep before to reduce the size and health of the AT rifle squad.

Kwok for example from what ive seen from both games against him and some replays is nothing else than having an HT, two AT rifle squads and Puma clustered up. If you want to kill that, you already need to get shermans or an arty strike (best option). And when blobbing up stuff is becoming the best way to win, something is wrong. When even a tactician, a guy who has probably read Sun Tsu and Clausewitz, is just blobbing up AT rifles with a Puma, then there is definitely something wrong.

CQB staying power has more to do with how their camouflage and ambush system works. Something that should be fixed in a patch that touches almost all the ambush/camouflage systems on units in the game. Basically every time a CQB squad member goes invisible in mid-battle and fires out of camouflage they get their first strike ambush bonus for those shots (I'm not sure but I think the bonus was +25% acc and +25% damage? The accuracy bonus is something you get at vet 5 with the squad normally). So the Thompson SMG being fired from ambush becomes the Sniper-Thompson SMG. Same goes for those LMG's they are carrying and even that shotgun too. Considering how fast everything camouflages when they are in cover while still shooting; these guys are no exceptions to firing with ambush bonuses despite already having been revealed.

going invisible mit battle is sick.
In one game i shred an entire Reg 5 squad with my M16 HT. But one men came down from sky as reinforcment.... invisible, right next to my M16, landed in the bush, grapped the Schreck and shot my M16. So while he actually lost 550 MP squad without losses for me, i lost 330 MP unit and kept the vet squad. Thats so sick. Going passively invisible goes way too fast.

I also dislike TD´s going invisible mid combat one second before my own tank is about to shoot.

[Redgaarden]

going invisible mit battle is sick.
In one game i shred an entire Reg 5 squad with my M16 HT. But one men came down from sky as reinforcment.... invisible, right next to my M16, landed in the bush, grapped the Schreck and shot my M16. So while he actually lost 550 MP squad without losses for me, i lost 330 MP unit and kept the vet squad. Thats so sick. Going passively invisible goes way too fast.

I also dislike TD´s going invisible mid combat one second before my own tank is about to shoot.

Fuck Camo. jagdpanzer and jagdpanthers going invis in the middle of the fight has made me ragequit someitmes.

[Potato_Musher]

WH:
Currently only Grenadiers in Defence has ability to upgrade to G43. Can I suggested adding this ability on whole WH for Grenadiers and Stormtroopers? Regardless of chosen doctrine?