Viper wrote:new/current example:
so the one thing i want to address and give my opinion about is.....the tank commander offmap artillery barrage for armor doctrine.
this is not a normal artillery barrage, and now it only require 1 command point 
lets compare it with infantry doctrine artillery barrage.......
infantry doctrine:
165 ammo. 9 strikes. random scatter.
armor doctrine:
75 ammo. 15 or more strikes
no scatter (will always hit the same spot and always direct hit)
i think it is a problem anyone can quickly speculate.
armor doctrine has significantly better arty barrage than infantry doctrine.....
The armor doc requirments are different. You need at least tank depot and a stuart/chaffe and a tank commander to use it and you cant fire it anywhere. Inf doc can unlock it straight and support a push anywhere at the map without having units there and without having any kind of base building. So there is a fundamental difference. I mean someone can use a recon plane and you drop arty on a forward HQ or troop concentration without any physical presence or without having any MP investment.
So they are not comparable at all.
MenciusMoldbug wrote:Alright so I finally got to use the 105 Sherman and Jumbo for Armor Doctrine and here's a few things that stood out:
- The 105 Sherman and Jumbo Sherman gain no benefit from the cheaper production unlock for shermans that makes them cheaper (even though the ability says it makes 'ALL shermans cheaper to produce').
For the 105 i would say yes, Jumbo is somewhat special and was more rare. But at the end it depends on how it effects gameplay.
For late game usefullness i would make it cheaper since unlocking jumbo and mass production isnt in one line anymore.
- 105 Sherman can't shoot at base structures unless you use the direct fire or attack ground near them (the 'fire at defenses' ability works against them though). In my case I was trying to make it shoot the Wehrmacht base structures and it would just move into them and not shoot at all; seems a bit weird.
would be good to have buildings with units inside and trenches as target as well.
- 105 sherman only has a 90° turret? I get the turret is kind of slow; but it would be useful to have a rotating turret that can be used to shoot side-ways when going back and forth behind a building.
- 105 sherman still has a limit of 1. Should be a limit of 2.
fully agree.
- You can bug the 'fire at defenses' thing to get multiple shots at something. Say you see a flak 20mm emplacement, you get in range to shoot it normally once; then use 'fire at defenses' and you shoot another 105 shot within the next 2 seconds; then you fire again a third time because when you use that ability your 105 reload resets. Resulting in 3 105 shots hitting the flak emplacement in 3-5 seconds. You can also bug this ability to let you get 'instant reloads' by using 'fire at defenses' then quickly cancelling the ability to get your 105 reloaded. I think it's the same thing with the other 'fire at defenses' abilities for the other tanks but I haven't checked yet.
this bug can be exploited with other stuff as well. I think even with normal HE shells.
But also Tiger ALRS works this way and JP deadshot as well. Its related to reload time in the weapon file. Using such abilties gives the tank a new gun with new stats and the reload times there are often very low.
I managed to fix it for me iirc by changing the reload time listed in the ALRS weapons file.
MarKr wrote:I've been thinking about the Jumbo's performance vs TD's with Panther Guns / AP rounds / and the Ambush penetration multiplier (+ damage). All those things together can translate into a dead Jumbo in one shot without the TD ever revealing itself. I didn't really care too much about Axis TD's having multiple ambush shots vs USA tanks because USA could always get an E8 which could survive like 3-5 shots from a Hetzer with over-repair + damage reductions from vet/tank commander. But now it's all kind of dicey; I could count on a Jumbo with over-repair at least surviving the first shot vs ambushed TD's but that's not a guarantee anymore.
Lets put it simple, the Jumbo was the US equivalent to German Heavy tanks (e.g. KT) and CW´s churchill MK VII tanks. Its armor was brutally thick and slopped, even at the sides it was almost as thick as Tiger, at front even thicker and slopped.
It just hadnt the firepower of a KT so technically it would be some sort of KT with the firepower of a sherman.
And i dont see a reason why it couldnt act like it, the churchill MK VII does so as well and it works.
Perhaps as side information. In one instance a Jumbo bounced three flak 88 shots from 700 yards or even less before the fourht hit was a lucky one hitting one of the optical (periscope or whatever) on the turret roof the causing damage inside the turret.
In future doc reworks i assume that Tigers will become some sort of early game heavy tank similiar to churchill MK IV versions which means the Jumbo comes later than tigers. Thus 88´s could have some hard times killing such a jumbo. Heavier 88´s will probably be available anyway such as the Pak in def doc, Nashorn in SE and so on.
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