50 gauge a little OP or too much maybe?? recce

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Warhawks97
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Re: 50 gauge a little OP or too much maybe?? recce

Postby Warhawks97 » 11 Dec 2018, 18:09

MarKr wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:Yes, but that way i would make it for all of them. Why picking certain units?
In combination with this:
Warhawks97 wrote:The Gun mounted in the Jagdpanther was probably the most formidable anti gun during the entire war.(...)
and that combined with your obscession with "consistency" (e.g. your post about "inconsistent 20mm guns") makes me wonder why I haven't heard any suggestions from you to implement the "click to always kill" ability also to KT, Elefant and the PaK43 in Def doc. I mean, it is the same gun so why pick certain units, right?


1. KT has the long shot already
2. I wasnt against a long shot ability for elephant but ok with 80 or 75 range in stat mode it seems suficient so far.
3. The Pak/kwk 43 literally always oneshots with few exceptions. To be honest the last time i did use the ability of the Jagdpanther was years ago in a battle at autry. In most other situations i either hadnt the shot unlocked or it wasnt necessary anymore.
4. I wouldnt be against such an ability for all vet units 2-3 (even nashorn) with pak/kwk 43. It might makes it more appeling to keep these units alive.

Perhaps at vet 1 or 2 they get the long shot ability, and at vet 3 or 4 it turns into a "Accurate long range kill shot" (so ALRS at vet 1-2, ALRKS at vet 3-4).

And when such abilities do require veterancy of an already expensive elite unit with elite gun, why should an cheap HT keep a treadbreaker shot (which requires also a lot of skill from the gunner, esspecially with smaller guns) for vet 0?


Anyway, to your question "why pick certain units" - it is again gameplay. First of all, the ability was abused on hand-held AT for multi-shots (you surely remember that), so it was not much of an option to keep it there. Second, if the ability is present on every AT gun in the game, it will severly limit the usage of vehicles because you will take a step in any direction and even camoed 37mm guns will immobilize your heavy tanks - at least you can see the HT coming. Third, it was kept on a single unit to keep it special. Given the fact that you didn't even know that the unit has kept the ability after it was removed from other units (which was how long? 2 years ago?) I presume it hasn't really been causing you trouble.



bc i am one of those who prefered the 28 mm due to its speed. Speed is for me always the greatest factor why i pick a unit or not and the 28 mm offers higher pen chances, esspecially vs stuart type vehicles. And since the 28 mm main reason was to beat recce rush, i dont see why i should have used the 37 mm HT that can bounce off from stuarts.




Then it seems that your problem with the ability gets to this:
- no skill required
- always hits
- always immobilizes
- low cost of the unit

and you seem to be fine with removing this ability while keeping the rocket ability which:
- no skill required
- always hits (at least as far as I know)
- always penetrates, often outright kills tanks
- low cost of the unit

so in the end the only real difference is that the rocket costs 100 ammo while the treadbreaker costs 50 ammo (which isn't really "piss") - however the rocket can be fired at range of 55 while the treadbreaker needs range of 42 and the target will most likely not just let it drive that close without trying to get out of range of the ability or taking a shot at the HT. The rocket cannot miss (or at least misses very rarely), pretty much always one-shots medium tanks, can do the same to Churchills and can pretty badly mess up Pershings so the rocket ability is in most cases pretty much "click to kill" ability while the treadbreaker after usage still requires more action to finish off the immobilized unit which usually takes more ammo. The cost of the unit is exactly the same when used from HT and the cost of PaK50 is even less. So it seems to me that the Rocket ability is more dangerous than the Treadbreaker.



The rocket shot didnt always hit and didnt oneshot units like overreped jumbos with 100% gurante etc (i saw it even bouncing off something). So its more like an ability you pay for but which can still fail in its purpose. Treadbreaker stuff is kind of "i pay to make sure it wont fail". The RNG is totally removed. It would be like making grenades always hitting or killing at least one soldier of the target squad, even when out of AoE, HE single HE shots never failing, arty barrages always hitting something at least once in a barrage, even when you placed them totally off... the final shot will seek a target somewhere at the map bc "you payed for so it shall not fail".
Literally every ability you pay for would at least cause damage/hitting something just for the sake of having payed for it. Thats how treadbreaker is.

I saw many fails with that rocket shot and when i use it i am praying.... and then you see it hitting the dirt or the pershing gets away with main gun damaged and so on. Its outcome is unclear even when you payed 100 ammo. Treadbreaker does not behave so.


And you would like to give to the HT camo and keep the rocket so that the the HT can wait in camo and let the target get in range which would lower the current risk the unit needs to take to use the ability - this combo seems more dangerous (especially when shots from camo have damage boost which means more chance to one-shot even Perhings from camo) than a combo of treadbreaker + camo. :?


Ok, i didnt think about it. That would be way too brutal.

Perhaps the the rocket shot could be removed in exchange for cammo? A mobile (vehicle) 37 mm weapon that can ambush, we never had that before in BK i think.
The rocket shot could be added elsehwere to PE. Its 50 mm doesnt have it for example.

Or you keep the rocket shot and add HE just like the BK Halftrack. It would then have an obvious capacity over the 28 mm vehicle and the difference between the 75 mm reward HT would be that the 75 mm has the more powerfull HE and more damage and pen vs vehicles, esspecially stuart type vehicles, in return its not as usefull vs bigger armor as the 37 mm with its rocket shot.

markr wrote:
Warhawks97 wrote:Also i would rather add some sort of "button" you can switch. Aim for tracks and engines "on" would drop the damage but increase chance to immobilize targets. switching it "off" would cause more damage as the AT unit would aim for hull/turret and thus higher chances to deliver a fatal blow.
This idea doesn't sound all that bad, though.



Oh, so its possible. I am glad to hear that but i did mention it like.... two years ago.....last year when it was about treadbreaker for the WH AT rifle squad.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: 50 gauge a little OP or too much maybe?? recce

Postby mofetagalactica » 11 Dec 2018, 19:17

We should have more small vehicles able to cammo, like stuarts, puma 50mm, greyhounds, etc.

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Warhawks97
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Re: 50 gauge a little OP or too much maybe?? recce

Postby Warhawks97 » 11 Dec 2018, 19:34

technically and from a realistic perspetcive everything could camo. I think spearhead mod did something similiar but it ended up in "everything hiding" and everything dying that comes out of cover, at least in some matches it was this way.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: 50 gauge a little OP or too much maybe?? recce

Postby mofetagalactica » 11 Dec 2018, 19:38

Warhawks97 wrote:technically and from a realistic perspetcive everything could camo. I think spearhead mod did something similiar but it ended up in "everything hiding" and everything dying that comes out of cover, at least in some matches it was this way.


I like that, but i would modify at what distances the unit get revealed

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Warhawks97
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Re: 50 gauge a little OP or too much maybe?? recce

Postby Warhawks97 » 11 Dec 2018, 19:51

believe me, with current damage systems etc everything would turn into arty party bc nobody will ever try to bet out of cover unless every tree is dead and every crater hit by bombs.

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Shanks
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Re: 50 gauge a little OP or too much maybe?? recce

Postby Shanks » 11 Dec 2018, 20:37

mofetagalactica wrote:We should have more small vehicles able to cammo, like stuarts, puma 50mm, greyhounds, etc.


Do you want the mod to be predator mod instead of bk mod?


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