5.1.6 Patch

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MenciusMoldbug
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby MenciusMoldbug » 02 Dec 2018, 23:58

Possible changes to take into consideration for next patch:

Stuka bomb not killing tanks on direct hits: This is 1000 KG bomb, if it lands on top of your tank, no way you are just going to be 'fine' and at half hp because you over-repaired it a while ago. Direct hit = death (would make the single stuka bomb strike in the reward menu useful to take over the other one too).

Weird 37mm greyhound target tables: Has a chance to bounce on puma, bounce the rear of a nashorn, a 24% chance to bounce on snipers at max range with it's main gun (and I've literally seen the 37mm shot bounce on a wehrmacht sniper). Maybe copy-paste target table values from another 37mm gun because they seem to have different better values to the greyhound one.

Sherman Smoke: Most overpriced smoke in the game, 50 munitions and you have to buy it from WSC to use it too, and it pops on top of the tank only. Doesn't help much in the end considering some guys can just ignore smoke accuracy debuffs thanks to accuracy modifiers from tank commanders, vet, target tables, etc. Make it cost 15 to smoke the Sherman or somewhere around there.

Equalizing HE damage between 37mm guns: Stuart 37mm does 40-40 damage while the pak 37mm HE on the blitzkrieg doc halftrack does 60-60. Considering the halftrack HE already has more range (65) and faster reload by .5 seconds, the Stuart should at least have the same damage as this thing or the damage for the axis halftrack can be brought down considering how many times I see it wipe out sapper squads in a single shot.

M4 Sherman Crocodile: If it isn't going to have anything but it's main flamer gun and a top .50 MG it shouldn't cost more fuel than a normal Sherman. I would apply the same thing to the Flammen Hetzer with it's fuel cost (should be 50 instead of 60).

Bren Carrier Repair Vehicle: Nobody uses this unit because the repair speed feels inconsequential to getting Royal Sappers with advanced repairs to do the job. Maybe buff it's repair speed even more (and increase its cost if it becomes really good)? It's really, really vulnerable to pretty much any type of AT and it's slow too.

Bofors should damage Nashorn: Nashorn is immune to bofor 40mm guns. It's kind of funny seeing the bofors shoot the rear of a nashorn with that infinite 'weak armor point penetrated' message and it's doing 1 point of damage to it.

12oz.Mouse
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby 12oz.Mouse » 03 Dec 2018, 00:49

MarKr wrote:This is the oposite of what one of the things people complained about - Hotchkiss rockets coming too early. Tank Hunter doctrine's main purpose is to fight tanks with their many TDs, not to shoot arty from Hotchkiss as soon as possible.


If the allies have Shermans with rockets and jeeps with rockets at the beginning of the game, then let the Germans have at least something or nerf the axis too.

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Warhawks97 » 03 Dec 2018, 00:51

MenciusMoldbug wrote:Possible changes to take into consideration for next patch:

Stuka bomb not killing tanks on direct hits: This is 1000 KG bomb, if it lands on top of your tank, no way you are just going to be 'fine' and at half hp because you over-repaired it a while ago. Direct hit = death (would make the single stuka bomb strike in the reward menu useful to take over the other one too).



yes
Weird 37mm greyhound target tables: Has a chance to bounce on puma, bounce the rear of a nashorn, a 24% chance to bounce on snipers at max range with it's main gun (and I've literally seen the 37mm shot bounce on a wehrmacht sniper). Maybe copy-paste target table values from another 37mm gun because they seem to have different better values to the greyhound one.


lol, needs a change.


Sherman Smoke: Most overpriced smoke in the game, 50 munitions and you have to buy it from WSC to use it too, and it pops on top of the tank only. Doesn't help much in the end considering some guys can just ignore smoke accuracy debuffs thanks to accuracy modifiers from tank commanders, vet, target tables, etc. Make it cost 15 to smoke the Sherman or somewhere around there.


The sherman self repair ability is also quite usless. It makes your tank unable to do anything for 40 seconds and repairs slowly for 50 ammo.

Should require either vet 1 or WSC upgrade and costing not 50 ammo. And if you order your tank to do something the ability should stop (the timer would run down though).


yes
Equalizing HE damage between 37mm guns: Stuart 37mm does 40-40 damage while the pak 37mm HE on the blitzkrieg doc halftrack does 60-60. Considering the halftrack HE already has more range (65) and faster reload by .5 seconds, the Stuart should at least have the same damage as this thing or the damage for the axis halftrack can be brought down considering how many times I see it wipe out sapper squads in a single shot.


All perma HE are better for axis compared to counterparts. They have decent accuracy and high on point damage. Allis HE behave more realistic in terms of accuracy max range, scatter, AoE and AoE damage modifiers.

And wtf, why this thing has 65 range. I would guess its simply a mistake.


Bofors should damage Nashorn: Nashorn is immune to bofor 40mm guns. It's kind of funny seeing the bofors shoot the rear of a nashorn with that infinite 'weak armor point penetrated' message and it's doing 1 point of damage to it.


Bofors is more like a HE weapon. It cant bounce so far and shells always explode on impact.
It could have an HE and AP switch like axis 37 mm.... perhaps.

Mr. FeministDonut
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 03 Dec 2018, 11:58

MarKr wrote:Weaker compared to what or when? The situation in 5.1.5? I've never heard you complaining about the strength of 75mm Sherman vs StuG in 5.1.4 and before but suddenly NOW it is too weak? Even when it has been like this for years? This is the part that I don't get. It was OK for years, then it got for the period of one patch stronger frontal penetration against StuG, then it returned to the "OK stage" which it had for years, except now it is not OK anymore?

Actually the stronger rear penetration chances (which were added in 5.1.5) are still there so 75mm Shermans are still stronger than they were before 5.1.5.

Dude, is it problem that I suggested that only after few years? Stug has brilliant top mg, that allows this tank perfom both well against infantry and with it's main gun against mid-tier class tanks. And while German's making stug, allies get what? Pure AI tank that also had to pay 90 ammo just to be good at something? I never heard an explanation, why Stug should have such good perfomance in both countering stages. Could you please explain me why?

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mofetagalactica
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby mofetagalactica » 03 Dec 2018, 13:39

MenciusMoldbug wrote:Possible changes to take into consideration for next patch:

Stuka bomb not killing tanks on direct hits: This is 1000 KG bomb, if it lands on top of your tank, no way you are just going to be 'fine' and at half hp because you over-repaired it a while ago. Direct hit = death (would make the single stuka bomb strike in the reward menu useful to take over the other one too).

Weird 37mm greyhound target tables: Has a chance to bounce on puma, bounce the rear of a nashorn, a 24% chance to bounce on snipers at max range with it's main gun (and I've literally seen the 37mm shot bounce on a wehrmacht sniper). Maybe copy-paste target table values from another 37mm gun because they seem to have different better values to the greyhound one.

Sherman Smoke: Most overpriced smoke in the game, 50 munitions and you have to buy it from WSC to use it too, and it pops on top of the tank only. Doesn't help much in the end considering some guys can just ignore smoke accuracy debuffs thanks to accuracy modifiers from tank commanders, vet, target tables, etc. Make it cost 15 to smoke the Sherman or somewhere around there.

Equalizing HE damage between 37mm guns: Stuart 37mm does 40-40 damage while the pak 37mm HE on the blitzkrieg doc halftrack does 60-60. Considering the halftrack HE already has more range (65) and faster reload by .5 seconds, the Stuart should at least have the same damage as this thing or the damage for the axis halftrack can be brought down considering how many times I see it wipe out sapper squads in a single shot.

M4 Sherman Crocodile: If it isn't going to have anything but it's main flamer gun and a top .50 MG it shouldn't cost more fuel than a normal Sherman. I would apply the same thing to the Flammen Hetzer with it's fuel cost (should be 50 instead of 60).

Bren Carrier Repair Vehicle: Nobody uses this unit because the repair speed feels inconsequential to getting Royal Sappers with advanced repairs to do the job. Maybe buff it's repair speed even more (and increase its cost if it becomes really good)? It's really, really vulnerable to pretty much any type of AT and it's slow too.

Bofors should damage Nashorn: Nashorn is immune to bofor 40mm guns. It's kind of funny seeing the bofors shoot the rear of a nashorn with that infinite 'weak armor point penetrated' message and it's doing 1 point of damage to it.


YES YES YES AND YES

Walderschmidt
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Walderschmidt » 03 Dec 2018, 14:03

MenciusMoldbug wrote:Possible changes to take into consideration for next patch:

Stuka bomb not killing tanks on direct hits: This is 1000 KG bomb, if it lands on top of your tank, no way you are just going to be 'fine' and at half hp because you over-repaired it a while ago. Direct hit = death (would make the single stuka bomb strike in the reward menu useful to take over the other one too).

Weird 37mm greyhound target tables: Has a chance to bounce on puma, bounce the rear of a nashorn, a 24% chance to bounce on snipers at max range with it's main gun (and I've literally seen the 37mm shot bounce on a wehrmacht sniper). Maybe copy-paste target table values from another 37mm gun because they seem to have different better values to the greyhound one.

Sherman Smoke: Most overpriced smoke in the game, 50 munitions and you have to buy it from WSC to use it too, and it pops on top of the tank only. Doesn't help much in the end considering some guys can just ignore smoke accuracy debuffs thanks to accuracy modifiers from tank commanders, vet, target tables, etc. Make it cost 15 to smoke the Sherman or somewhere around there.

Equalizing HE damage between 37mm guns: Stuart 37mm does 40-40 damage while the pak 37mm HE on the blitzkrieg doc halftrack does 60-60. Considering the halftrack HE already has more range (65) and faster reload by .5 seconds, the Stuart should at least have the same damage as this thing or the damage for the axis halftrack can be brought down considering how many times I see it wipe out sapper squads in a single shot.

M4 Sherman Crocodile: If it isn't going to have anything but it's main flamer gun and a top .50 MG it shouldn't cost more fuel than a normal Sherman. I would apply the same thing to the Flammen Hetzer with it's fuel cost (should be 50 instead of 60).

Bren Carrier Repair Vehicle: Nobody uses this unit because the repair speed feels inconsequential to getting Royal Sappers with advanced repairs to do the job. Maybe buff it's repair speed even more (and increase its cost if it becomes really good)? It's really, really vulnerable to pretty much any type of AT and it's slow too.

Bofors should damage Nashorn: Nashorn is immune to bofor 40mm guns. It's kind of funny seeing the bofors shoot the rear of a nashorn with that infinite 'weak armor point penetrated' message and it's doing 1 point of damage to it.


+1000

The New BK Champion
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby The New BK Champion » 03 Dec 2018, 14:15

I agree with mencius

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MarKr
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby MarKr » 03 Dec 2018, 23:37

12oz.Mouse wrote:If the allies have Shermans with rockets and jeeps with rockets at the beginning of the game, then let the Germans have at least something or nerf the axis too.
Calliope rockets are not as strong as the Stuka rockets so it is not very good comparison.

Mr. FeministDonut wrote:Dude, is it problem that I suggested that only after few years? Stug has brilliant top mg, that allows this tank perfom both well against infantry and with it's main gun against mid-tier class tanks. And while German's making stug, allies get what? Pure AI tank that also had to pay 90 ammo just to be good at something? I never heard an explanation, why Stug should have such good perfomance in both countering stages. Could you please explain me why?
I don't have much problem with the change itself but I wanted to know the reasoning and the reasons you gave me did not make much sense.
After checking some files I found that the StuG top MG did not receive the latest changes, so it will be added and the anti-infantry power will drop a bit, leaving it as mainly anti-tank unit.

MenciusMoldbug wrote:Possible changes to take into consideration for next patch(...)
Obvious bugs/oversights will be changed, the rest maybe too, cannot promise anything though.
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Mr. FeministDonut
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 04 Dec 2018, 22:51

Thanks alot

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Viper
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Viper » 10 Dec 2018, 23:00

although it's not on the change.log and im not sure if other people have discovered it or not yet. but im genuinely impressed how you fixed the immortal crew of the american 37mm anti tank gun :) much better now!

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MarKr
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby MarKr » 10 Dec 2018, 23:16

That is really surprising, because nobody touched the 37mm gun :? But thanks for the praise anyway :lol:
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Viper
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Viper » 11 Dec 2018, 07:24

as you know, the crew of the american 37mm anti tank gun had heavy cover around them from all directions.
now there is no heavy cover at all. or just medium cover. pioneers can now quickly kill the crew even from long range.

it must be that someone has touched it. otherwise we might have a ghost in the bk dev team hiding somewhere.......... :D

Major-McIllroy
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Major-McIllroy » 21 Dec 2018, 18:49

At first i want to thank you for the very good work with this gigantic gamemodification.
After the last patch we had so much trouble now with the Synchronisation of the gameplay. After 20 - 30 min. game against the AI, the game is going asynchrone and the fun is over... We tryed to play in different popcaps or BK funmode, but it´s still the same. It whould be great to get some information to fix this problems.

Thanks and best greets

McIllroy
Last edited by Major-McIllroy on 22 Dec 2018, 14:21, edited 1 time in total.

kwok
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby kwok » 21 Dec 2018, 21:06

Try lowering popcap to 150 and no bk fun mode. Those push the game, your computer, and internet connection to their limits. Report back and send error logs (I forgot where they are but I’ll find it when I’m home). All players should send the logs. There’s a code in the logs that can be used to check desyncs I think.

Major-McIllroy
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Major-McIllroy » 21 Dec 2018, 23:37

thanks for the fast answer. We also tryed to decrease the popcap to 150 but´s still the same problem.
Next time i take a look and try to find the error logs.

milekh
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby milekh » 30 Dec 2018, 02:07

Hi!
Shermans/church/crom 75mm shouldn't be that weak.
Even before there was huge stug 3/4 spam, flanking tiger with 75mm crommwell or chaffy 75mm into tigers rear at close range was pointless, and now its even worse.
In my opinion 75mm should perform much better (even due to higher sherman cost than it was few months before), 90-110mm of pen isnt that ineffective, or just make better values at close range. i think it should apply to all tanks, it would prevent from brainless tactics. now its like you just push with pz4j against 75mm sherman and you have no fear. or push with sherman 76 against pz4e.
German tanks rather didnt have mgs mounted at top or that were just hull mgs taken out only for AA purpose, while US tanks had almost always 0.30 or 0.50 or even both.

Anyway changes seems to be nice.
I like diversity and having both shermans with and without 0,50 is nice.

Also i'd change stukas 1000kg to maybe more usefull "p47" type bomb so it can take out tanks. or maybe add anti tank ju87g, it was already there.
and nerf 109 or change it with high cost fw190 cause this one canon and 2 mgs are ridicously effective against both infantry and m18.

hope 0'50 jeep can now counter PE scout 221.

Making Rangers "inf only" is fine, but infiltration rangers were special "inf" unit. now us has no heavy inf, while all other factions have multiple choice (granadiers PE, sturm PE, WH volks, WH granadiers). maybe make rangers call in by captain?
or maybe high cost ranger command squad with bazooka, m1919 and 6-7 members?
but dont delete bar squad because its great price/quality ratio (oh no now you gonna change it XD)

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Warhawks97 » 30 Dec 2018, 03:08

milekh wrote:Hi!
Shermans/church/crom 75mm shouldn't be that weak.
Even before there was huge stug 3/4 spam, flanking tiger with 75mm crommwell or chaffy 75mm into tigers rear at close range was pointless, and now its even worse.
In my opinion 75mm should perform much better (even due to higher sherman cost than it was few months before), 90-110mm of pen isnt that ineffective, or just make better values at close range. i think it should apply to all tanks, it would prevent from brainless tactics. now its like you just push with pz4j against 75mm sherman and you have no fear. or push with sherman 76 against pz4e.




Not sure where you got this info from but the 75 mm struggled heavily against tigers from any direction.

There are some engine limits as well.

1. There is no side armor which means we can only set front and rear armor which have kind of 50:50 chance to be hit when shooting from sides. So strong rear armor on tiger has also to reflect its strong side armor to some degree.
2. The way pen modifiers work. If you want 75 mm to be able to pen tigers rear or side areas always from close-mid range but unable from far range we would have to set extrem short and distant modifiers to the gun which then also affects all targets, not just the target unit.

German tanks rather didnt have mgs mounted at top or that were just hull mgs taken out only for AA purpose, while US tanks had almost always 0.30 or 0.50 or even both.


Not true. Later on axis mounted Mg42´s on the top of their tanks. And they were not hull mgs temporarily put on top bc coax and hull mgs were Mg 34 (thats bc of the barrel exchange mechanism that doesnt work for mg42 when put in such gun mount. The top was an Mg42 (limited) air defense bc there you need higher rof.


Also i'd change stukas 1000kg to maybe more usefull "p47" type bomb so it can take out tanks. or maybe add anti tank ju87g, it was already there.
and nerf 109 or change it with high cost fw190 cause this one canon and 2 mgs are ridicously effective against both infantry and m18.



Stuka could only carry a 250, 500 or 1000 kg bomb in the center.... perhaps even 250 kg bombs under the wings but the p-47 could carry much more.

The p-47 could carry 1 500 kg bomb, two 250 kg bombs and 5 M8 4,5 inch missiles at once. In game it carries i think two 125 kg bombs or something like that..... however the p-47 bombs dealing in general more damage (depends in which aoe you are but in general the damage is higher for them).

Also stuka shouldnt be for taking out planes, they are supposed to take out emplacemants outright. For tanks you have henschel. The stuka is cheaper to call in but slower so in general more suited for taking out emplacments.


The ME 109 is indeed insase. Thats bc the two 7,92 mm MG´s should 8 times more rounds in a second than the 8 cal 50 from the p-47. So this small area is tightly packed by rounds that makes sure everyone gets a bullet.

I just dont like that US has to pay an upgrade (+ full cooldown once upgraded) to get armor piercing cal 50 rounds altough they were standard rounds in planes while axis got a 20 mm right away.




Making Rangers "inf only" is fine, but infiltration rangers were special "inf" unit. now us has no heavy inf, while all other factions have multiple choice (granadiers PE, sturm PE, WH volks, WH granadiers). maybe make rangers call in by captain?
or maybe high cost ranger command squad with bazooka, m1919 and 6-7 members?
but dont delete bar squad because its great price/quality ratio (oh no now you gonna change it XD)


faction diversity. Rangers were no Grenadiers or Panzergrenadiers, simple as that. The rifles doing very nice as backbone inf and rangers now elite values right away. We would have to nerf them again when spreading them again accross the factions. In AB you get AB inf and armor doc as plenty of nice tanks and vehicles that handle enemie inf.

milekh
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby milekh » 30 Dec 2018, 21:56

If you dont know where is that info from just google it.
Well 110mm of pen (just wikipedia armor piercing table) even with 50% of chance to pen is enough vs 80mm tigers side/back armor.
It struggeled to pen at long distances but at close ranges (where mostly AP with 110mm pen were used instead of 90mm pen APBC)it wasnt big deal.
Also there was a lot of knocked out tigers by 75mm and 57mm at front armor (even at the time when 57 HVAPs werent used) ;)
Just making it that low chance to pen rear armor is ridiculus. It was ridiculus even before. id make it about 35-40%, so 2/5 hits of 75mm can pen. also it takes 4 shots (?) to kill tiger using 75mm so you would need to put ~10 shots into tigers rear to kill it.



me 109 has 2 mg15 (1250rpm) or 2 mg 131 (700rpm) and one mg151 (or some other canon, ~750 rpm).
so you have 2500 (7,92)+750(canon)=3250 or with 13mm mg 131 1400+750=2150 rounds.
p47 has 8x550 so it is 4400 rounds. and if you dont know how getting shot by 0,50 looks go to funker530. I though 0,50 blowing off head in "Fury" was silly, but its real :(

75mm vs front armor.
https://www.google.com/search?q=tiger+k ... boZc6j2ZbM:
And first tiger in Afrika was destroyed frontally by 57mm churchill.


75mm vs side armor:
http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforu ... tion.3696/

As you can see 75mm at short distances could do well.

Also Allies had nice pictures of weakspots and effective range of engagement for front, angled, side, back against tiger and panther and most sherman crews had them sticked inside the turret. just some fun fact XD

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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Viper » 31 Dec 2018, 07:25

milekh wrote:If you dont know where is that info from just google it.
Well 110mm of pen (just wikipedia armor piercing table) even with 50% of chance to pen is enough vs 80mm tigers side/back armor.
It struggeled to pen at long distances but at close ranges (where mostly AP with 110mm pen were used instead of 90mm pen APBC)it wasnt big deal.
Also there was a lot of knocked out tigers by 75mm and 57mm at front armor (even at the time when 57 HVAPs werent used) ;)
Just making it that low chance to pen rear armor is ridiculus. It was ridiculus even before. id make it about 35-40%, so 2/5 hits of 75mm can pen. also it takes 4 shots (?) to kill tiger using 75mm so you would need to put ~10 shots into tigers rear to kill it.

do you want to see ostwind killing sherman jumbo from the side & rear too? :) it can do that from realistic point of view.

bk mod does not ignore realism but..... balance > realism.

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Warhawks97 » 31 Dec 2018, 11:32

@milekh:


We still have simple limits for the game engine. If you would be able to take a look at corsix you would notice it.


I try to give you an example:

Lets say you want 50% pen chance for 75 mm vs frontal tiger armor and almost 0% for max rane:

You set the basic pen modifer against tiger in the target table for tigers to "0.5" (50 %). The gun short range pen modifier to "1" (means it multiplies the number in the target table with factor 1.

Then you set the max range pen modifier in the weapon files down to like 0.1 or less to drop down the pen at max range down to 5%.

The issue is that the range pen modifier apply to all target tables and that would mess up just everything only to have "realistic" (which isnt true) pen stats vs tigers?

Also check your sources pls:
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=329&p=2033#p2033

here you can find a few more scientific pages.

milekh
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby milekh » 01 Jan 2019, 21:48

set tiger 0,3. gun shot modifier 1/0,9/0,7/0,5. nicely done? :D
Can you make target value like higher than 1? like 1,5 for pz4 d ?

yep i want to see picture where ostwind killied jumbo. just remember it mostly hasnt even AP loaded and Pzgr40 was almost nonexistant (with 64mm of pen that means it needs to hit side armor at trasmission level (wchich with this depression of gun is really hard to aim).

My source is just photo and well documented event. Your sources are some historician talks and "how they think it was".
I dont assume that 75mm was 100% effective against tiger but it could do very well at close ranges and gave you example of well documented event.

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Warhawks97
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Warhawks97 » 02 Jan 2019, 00:17

milekh wrote:set tiger 0,3. gun shot modifier 1/0,9/0,7/0,5. nicely done? :D
Can you make target value like higher than 1? like 1,5 for pz4 d ?

and so you would have to rework everything.... btw, the range modifier are almost this way, i think even 0.49 for 75 mm gun at max range.


But 0.3..... this is almost that of the 76 gun which is 0.41. Believe me, its not possible bc i was testing arround a lot for myself. Its not worth it to mess everything else just for this tiny bit of "realism".


yep i want to see picture where ostwind killied jumbo. just remember it mostly hasnt even AP loaded and Pzgr40 was almost nonexistant (with 64mm of pen that means it needs to hit side armor at trasmission level (wchich with this depression of gun is really hard to aim).


Even with normal AP it could pen shermans sides and rear from about 100 meter.

My source is just photo and well documented event. Your sources are some historician talks and "how they think it was".
I dont assume that 75mm was 100% effective against tiger but it could do very well at close ranges and gave you example of well documented event.


some random pictures.

And my links are no "talks" thats scientific stuff.... everything from shell behavior, metallurgie armor type, BHN scale etc.... shooting tests that were conducted in 1944 etc etc. So you havent even read them.
Even the Tank IV 80 mm frontal armor plate was a surprise to the US and even for their new 76 mm gun. And you want to come up with 75 mm going through 100 and more mm Tiger armor which BHN value was even higher than those of shermans 63 mm plate? really?


https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1045347.pdf
(http://ww2f.com/threads/u-s-army-firing ... pdr.22102/)
https://archive.is/CW2CM

milekh
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Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby milekh » 05 Jan 2019, 20:29

Warhawks97 wrote:
milekh wrote:set tiger 0,3. gun shot modifier 1/0,9/0,7/0,5. nicely done? :D
Can you make target value like higher than 1? like 1,5 for pz4 d ?

and so you would have to rework everything.... btw, the range modifier are almost this way, i think even 0.49 for 75 mm gun at max range.


But 0.3..... this is almost that of the 76 gun which is 0.41. Believe me, its not possible bc i was testing arround a lot for myself. Its not worth it to mess everything else just for this tiny bit of "realism".


yep i want to see picture where ostwind killied jumbo. just remember it mostly hasnt even AP loaded and Pzgr40 was almost nonexistant (with 64mm of pen that means it needs to hit side armor at trasmission level (wchich with this depression of gun is really hard to aim).


Even with normal AP it could pen shermans sides and rear from about 100 meter.

My source is just photo and well documented event. Your sources are some historician talks and "how they think it was".
I dont assume that 75mm was 100% effective against tiger but it could do very well at close ranges and gave you example of well documented event.


some random pictures.

And my links are no "talks" thats scientific stuff.... everything from shell behavior, metallurgie armor type, BHN scale etc.... shooting tests that were conducted in 1944 etc etc. So you havent even read them.
Even the Tank IV 80 mm frontal armor plate was a surprise to the US and even for their new 76 mm gun. And you want to come up with 75 mm going through 100 and more mm Tiger armor which BHN value was even higher than those of shermans 63 mm plate? really?


https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/1045347.pdf
(http://ww2f.com/threads/u-s-army-firing ... pdr.22102/)
https://archive.is/CW2CM


About sherman vs ostwind: read carefully, you were talking about jumbo sherman and now you say just sherman.

no some random pictures, just well documented clash of tiger vs sherman. i bet you didnt even read that topic where you have decribet whole battle.

80mm is a lot and sloped shermans 63mm is also a lot. just saying that penetration values at close ranges could be more drastic so it would be more realistic and it would prevent from brainless heavy tanks rush.

76mm was more than enough for 80mm stug or pz4. just americans had tendention to cry about everything while germans had great propaganda.
I mean 80mm can be effective against 76mm but its about the same proportion like long pz4 75mm vs sherman.

Walderschmidt
Posts: 193
Joined: 27 Sep 2017, 12:42

Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby Walderschmidt » 13 Jan 2019, 21:18

Wire should be red cover, not no cover.

The closest range in all range brackets should have a 1-2second faster aim time.

Big boy tanks need hold fire button. At least Panther and above. I'd be okay with removing attack move, if necessary. I never use it.

Wald

The New BK Champion
Posts: 276
Joined: 11 Feb 2018, 22:09

Re: 5.1.6 Patch

Postby The New BK Champion » 14 Jan 2019, 01:10

Walderschmidt wrote:The closest range in all range brackets should have a 1-2second faster aim time.

That would require all units to have any aim time at all. Sometimes I think that some tanks like panther g or pershing have 0 aim time


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