2v2 Replay

[kwok]

Kwok, Walder vs. Figree, Ling Yao

[Shanks]

the rematch

[Warhawks97]

Could you guys give just a minimum amount of Informations such as doctrines played?

[kwok]

Gg shanks. That triple sniper spam is a strong counter to PE. We got too cocky with our opening.

At warhawks. Nope

[Shanks]

Could you guys give just a minimum amount of Informations such as doctrines played?

if you're interested, you just have to see it, if not, do not see it, it's simple ... do not you think?

@Kwok...yes, WP, luft suffered a hard blow...but the first game, it was frustrating

[Walderschmidt]

Could you guys give just a minimum amount of Informations such as doctrines played?

First game: 30 minutes 23 seconds

Axis:
Wald - TH (starting units*: 2 pgren, 28mm, medic, ket, ket)
Kwok - Luft (starting units: mg, schwimm, at ht, assault gren)

Allies:
Figree - Inf (starting units: at gun, mg)
Shanks - Armor (starting units: officer, recoiless jeep, 57mm, 7-man rifle)

2 min 14 picture (side by side comparisons)

5 min

10 min

16 minute

20 minute

*Starting units is what I refer to what people have by the roughly 2 min mark with high resources.

[Walderschmidt]

24 min 36

https://youtu.be/xvm2iPtRbio

Kwok actually managed to drop butterly bombs on cloaked infilitration Rangers and took out 1 out of 6 infantry squads on the attack (the squad survived but had to retreat).

At around 24 minutes 36 seconds, Kwok and I saw that Figree was committing his forces to the attack to attempt to destroy my forces in the North and relieve pressure off Ling Yao, who had been forced back to and penned in his base (an 88 sitting outside did not help!).

Kwok waited for Figree to commit all his forces, dropped butterfly bombs behind them, parachuted in some Falls as a distraction, and moved his soldiers to the probably retreat path of Figree so he could wipe the remaining squads before they could get back to Figree's base.

For the most part, it was an uphill battle for Figree and Ling Yao at the 24 min mark. At the end of this dream double team, the victory was inevitable for the Axis.

Wald

[Warhawks97]

Thx. Perhaps certain moments could get mentioned like this sd2 action as anti ambush tool.


In the first match both allied completely failed. Figree had a bad start with many mistakes but showed great skills later on. But he made mistakes like not using vehicles and support stuff and forgot to upgrade supply yard.

1. No spotters, even after initial clashes were over.
2. Figree captured with engis and left them stay "in the desert". he could have build sandbags and provide flank protection to his HMG which was stupidly placed in range of Pgrens in green cover. German rifle inf in green cover beats HMG in gren cover usually. If you dont have the intention to take the trench, dont set a defense line up that is in range of that trench and its axis inf.

Figree then woke up and actually entered the battle and did far better than ling. Lings positioning and esspecially his defensive measures were very poor.... all his forces stood literally in one small area of the game and no recons at his side. And his attack into unknown area consisted of smoke and a singl rifle squad.... really?

Min 10 onwards.... ling had to support figree during his attack... his greyhound stays usless arround... units like greyhounds are fast and mobile for a good reason. You can switching from attack into defense, test defenses and fight skirmishes, support friendly inf etc.... but ling uses it like it is an emplacment.

both allied, esspecially ling did a severe beginner fail: No supply yard. I cant call anyone a good (US) player who doesnt go for supply yard when having 100 fuel and more in reserve.


Another super big mistake of ling is his defense organisation.... he puts AT guns and HMG right in the first line without checking his flanks. These units shall perhaps not received the first impact of the enemie counter attack. Mobile units will hit the counter attack first, alone for the fact to see whats coming and to soften it. Then retreat behind MG and AT gun and fight together with them. AT guns cant use the range without sight and get flanked too easily. Also he puts it all too tight. AT gun is placed behind HMG´s, not right next to it to make sure mortar and arty hits both at once........

Figree did much better and had more ideas. However he lacked M20 with cal 50 to back up his inf against enemie inf. Also failed to have some sort of FHQ. He had to get medic truck near his captain as forward heal/reinforce point.

Ling just failed in many ways. Res managment, defense organisation, not prepared for counter attacks which cost him AT gun, HMG and mortar at once (thx to place them all on one point) and lacked vehicles. Figree had to get at least one M16 as mobile anti inf and anti air unit.


Later Ling wasted his calliope salvo stupidly on a damn 88 which it cant kill....he got two blind eyes. There was a large inf concentration on his left side but totally ignorged that.... just bc that 88 was hurting his feelings?
well, the second calli salvo was much better.

Finally ling failed with jumbo, hunting a single squad and failing doing so... lack of "understanding whats going on and what do i need". Its like going for a tiger without even knowing why.... just this "Meta unlocks".... just bc everybody else does so. I would have got shermans.... 162 fuel and unlocking alll vet stuff if you have no ammo and upgrade fuel supply from supply yard for the long term. Using tank commanders etc.


anyway. My Conclusion and tips:

@Figree: Build medic HT as forward retreat/heal/reinforce point. You would have even got fee squads perhaps with all that fighting going on. Since you use massed inf i would say build two for effectively collecting wounded.

Also keep an M10 in reserve later in case some bigger stuff comes.
And you need vehicles.... vehicles an inf so brutal as fuck. An M16 or M20 would have forced the enemie to build more anti tank and anti vehicle stuff. I usually get both, esspecially vs Luft.

And upgrade supply yard.... 5 inf squads, two ranger squads, captain and what else.... you could have had 300 MP per min instead 270.

@Ling: You need to learn basics... srsly. Combined arms, defense organisation (not just one silly "line" or even "point" where all defensive units are placed). And vehicles...I have no idea how people can fight without. I cant.



@markr: We need a serious luft revision. That sd 2 thing is soo..... ambushed unit? drop them on it. Enemie attacks my lines? quickly drop them between them and my units. I have an open flank? i gotta drop them quickly.... It compensates too much for the lack of players skills, esspecially when he forgot something (like making sure flanks are save).

You can literally mine the entire rear of the enemie if you want, cripple reinforcment and make retreats super risky... its just dump. Like submarines in the atlantic that appear out of nowehere.... teleported.
Just saying: Min 24:50. Just hilarious this sd2 shit.

[kwok]

Watch the second game.

[Warhawks97]

Watch the second game.

will do tomorrow.

[Shanks]

@Ling: You need to learn basics... srsly. Combined arms, defense organisation (not just one silly "line" or even "point" where all defensive units are placed). And vehicles...I have no idea how people can fight without. I cant.

if you want you can teach me how to play, tell me what days you can play 1v1, you play with luft, I will try to defend myself

[Warhawks97]

Your style reminds me a bit of old mates who also only played 1 vs 1, max 2 vs 2.

1 vs 1 player are more slefish, fixed on much smaller areas and seem to have trouble to "see the entire picture". And thats what happend in the game.... in fact there were two moments where i would say that you even realized at least a little bit what is happening elsewhere and adapt a bit. But generally you thought only for yourself and build what you thought you need for your personal goals, not what team needs.

You basically never left your side (that tree line was basically your personal border) and shooting only once with calli on the other side of that tree line. That was your entire "teamplay" skill.

[Mr. FeministDonut]

Your style reminds me a bit of old mates who also only played 1 vs 1, max 2 vs 2.

1 vs 1 player are more slefish, fixed on much smaller areas and seem to have trouble to "see the entire picture". And thats what happend in the game.... in fact there were two moments where i would say that you even realized at least a little bit what is happening elsewhere and adapt a bit. But generally you thought only for yourself and build what you thought you need for your personal goals, not what team needs.

You basically never left your side (that tree line was basically your personal border) and shooting only once with calli on the other side of that tree line. That was your entire "teamplay" skill.

Yeah, I have this complex too. Whenever I play game higher than a 2v2, I start feeling myself like having a PTSD, since every gap on field is taken by the enemy and you just don't know where to go, flank or avoid enemy

[Shanks]

Your style reminds me a bit of old mates who also only played 1 vs 1, max 2 vs 2.

1 vs 1 player are more slefish, fixed on much smaller areas and seem to have trouble to "see the entire picture". And thats what happend in the game.... in fact there were two moments where i would say that you even realized at least a little bit what is happening elsewhere and adapt a bit. But generally you thought only for yourself and build what you thought you need for your personal goals, not what team needs.

You basically never left your side (that tree line was basically your personal border) and shooting only once with calli on the other side of that tree line. That was your entire "teamplay" skill.

You're right, I played the first game badly ... but that does not mean that I play like that ... the second game was an overwhelming victory for us, we practically did not give him time to breathe to kwok and walder........
So please, do not offend me by saying that I need to learn the basics, anyone can have a bad game

[Warhawks97]

Ok, i watched the second game (forgot about it)


I wanna make it short:

@Shanks: I gonna nail a god damn paper on your desktop were i write with huge letteers: SUPPLY YARD.

When you had that like 70 popcap you could have got like 30 MP per min more just by building it, 30 more when using the first upgrade.... you teced up too slowly depsite having a lot of fuel.

Also dont put all your units on a single place all the time. When combat starts you have little space to move and no tactical options.... all you can do is beg that your units hold the ground, else everything that cant run away fast enpugh dies. In such fast games you should also always have a 57 mm HT as quick AT gun that can keep up with the speed of the game. You lack mobility and put yourself in huge danger.


@kwok: Well played. But in this case Figree was just faster. You are more the strategist while figree is better when it comes to intuitive acting. He is making great tactical moves without thinking about it that much.


@Figree: Great game, epic. That rangers, greyhound and cal 50 jeep usage. Thats how i always wanted the US to be. Good rangers, powerfull cal 50 in support, flexible..
I jsut enjoy watching figrees games. In the early game he does not much but then he comes out of the nothing and so eager to win. He is able to quickly adopt to situations and he intuitive gameplay is just nice. Not sure what other games he plays but i guess many that require quick decisions.(league of legends? dota 2?). I would say that both matches were "his matches".
One thing he should really consider to get (esspecially when he had this 1300 MP reserves) to get this medic truck and captain and forward spawn point (which he later did with his truck).


@Wald: Sorry to say so but i would say wald messed the game a bit up for axis. I would guess he never had a situation were he got to the enemie base this fast. He wasnt sure whether to push more (which would have been risky in a HR match) or to stay defensive. In all he did non of it. He placed a defense on his side (but generally bad executed and positioned) but forgot a bit about middle and also waited with his ressource spending far too long. A Tank hunter command should have been build much earlier and if he doc wasnt clear yet he had to get 1-2 marders. Those could have prevented this greyhound rush over the center as well as shooting the inf with HE.

In such situations (qiuck map capture but not the res to maintain controle over it) i would go SE and instantly put traps on all points. Those points closest to the enemie (usually high res points) should get destroyed outright with schwimmwagen (you dont have to unlock sabo squad in order to ruin neutral/friendly points) and traps planted. Enemies would need long time to repair that require units that would be taken out of combat and causing damage in case of capturing. And from then on just mortar/hetzer/scout cars/krads/sniper and mobile inf locking down the ground untill both PE docs are at full power.

[Shanks]

Ok, i watched the second game (forgot about it)


I wanna make it short:

@Shanks: I gonna nail a god damn paper on your desktop were i write with huge letteers: SUPPLY YARD.

When you had that like 70 popcap you could have got like 30 MP per min more just by building it, 30 more when using the first upgrade.... you teced up too slowly depsite having a lot of fuel.

Also dont put all your units on a single place all the time. When combat starts you have little space to move and no tactical options.... all you can do is beg that your units hold the ground, else everything that cant run away fast enpugh dies. In such fast games you should also always have a 57 mm HT as quick AT gun that can keep up with the speed of the game. You lack mobility and put yourself in huge danger.

.

when you know you won, you should relax, it's a game, the idea is to have fun ... you should put it on your desk as a reminder on a sheet of paper

[Walderschmidt]

Ok, i watched the second game (forgot about it)
@Wald: Sorry to say so but i would say wald messed the game a bit up for axis. I would guess he never had a situation were he got to the enemie base this fast. He wasnt sure whether to push more (which would have been risky in a HR match) or to stay defensive. In all he did non of it. He placed a defense on his side (but generally bad executed and positioned) but forgot a bit about middle and also waited with his ressource spending far too long. A Tank hunter command should have been build much earlier and if he doc wasnt clear yet he had to get 1-2 marders. Those could have prevented this greyhound rush over the center as well as shooting the inf with HE.

In such situations (qiuck map capture but not the res to maintain controle over it) i would go SE and instantly put traps on all points. Those points closest to the enemie (usually high res points) should get destroyed outright with schwimmwagen (you dont have to unlock sabo squad in order to ruin neutral/friendly points) and traps planted. Enemies would need long time to repair that require units that would be taken out of combat and causing damage in case of capturing. And from then on just mortar/hetzer/scout cars/krads/sniper and mobile inf locking down the ground untill both PE docs are at full power.

No need to be sorry, I appreciate the commentary. I didn't play well that game and was constantly reacting to things.

Recently it seems like my EQ is not quite there and so if I get flustered that can throw off my game a lot. I forget SE can booby trap/destroy points, I'll keep that in mind next time.

Thanks.

Wald

[OrbitFace]

I'm new to this game. Please give advice