the comet stinks and also the mod

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Shanks
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the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Shanks » 13 Dec 2017, 07:25

Hello everyone, and see you later ... I just wanted to probably say my last words on this topic, which are: the comet is a crap and also the mod ,,,,,,,, and can easily win with the hetzers jagdpanthers jagdtiger tiger NARSHON panther among others, probably, until they eliminate the post, I hope you read it before that ..... aaa and also, what a pity I have of the creator of the mod, they made a shit with the "Mod Bk", It was good, very good .... :|

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MarKr
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby MarKr » 13 Dec 2017, 10:33

Remind me the last time when we "eliminate posts" of users who violated no rules...

Anyway...just because Comet is no longer "churchill with 17 pounder and the speed of Cromwell" the entire mod is crap? Comet has exactly the same firepower as before, is faster than before and costs less. Yes, it can ben penetrated (and so destroyed) easier but it costs less and so can be replaced easier too. Maybe hetzers and similar units with 75mm L48 guns have easier time killing Comets but you can use combination of Churchill + (something with 17pounder) against that because L48 is not very reliable even against the weakest churchill. Against the other mentioned units maybe try using two Comets simultaneously? You are likely to lose one but the other can easily flank and kill those units and resource-wise you are still winning because one lost Comet doesn't cost as much to replace as JP/JT/Tigers/Panthers/Nashorn.
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Shanks
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Shanks » 13 Dec 2017, 14:14

Maybe, not all the mod sucks ... but ... the comet was the allied attack force, besides, it was never a big problem for the axis, the hetzer, in almost 90% of the cases, killed the comet of a shot, they talked about the comet, it was very profitable ....... and what happens with the hetzer and Narshon ???????? ....... the hetzer is able to finish with pershings ,,,,,,,, and the narshon kills a single shot at SP ..... now the question is ..... why not nerf these units ?????? ..... now only an AT 50mm, can destroy the comet, no matter how fast, it is useless as an attack force ...... another question ..... because people used RE ?????? ;;;; ;;;; Now it would be better to use other doctrines where you have firefly and aquilles, which are much better than the comet, currently, it is true, you work a lot for the mod,I apologize for the bad words, but sometimes , I think that they need to play pvp, to the developers, to understand the impact of what they do, only raise the price of the comet, but not hag In this type of depressing change, from my point of view ... also, many compare British vs WM, which would be the same as compare PE vs. USA, I just want you to understand that it is there, where you are wrong, there is no point of comparison

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MarKr
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby MarKr » 13 Dec 2017, 14:44

So the time when it just insanely rushed past all defenses and around any unit while bouncing off shots was OK (because it worked for you) but now when you need to use some more tactics it is suddenly useless? Also Hetzers and Nashorns are tank hunters, when they attack from camo, they simply do ton of damage to tanks - same goes for Allies; Tiger had here not so long ago his "test" where camoed Achilles killed KT - is because of that KT completely useless?
Have you actually tried using the Comets in groups? They are cheaper now so it is not so resource-heavy to build at least two of them. If you go 2v1 you will most likely win vs any Axis vehicle, sure, you are very likely to lose one of your Comets but in terms of resources you lost less than opponent.

But nobody holds you, if you like to rather use other doctrines you are free to do so ;)
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Shanks
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Shanks » 13 Dec 2017, 16:05

Are you sure what you say?Two comet will be enough?One single panzerjaeger 39 H, Can kill the comet with one shot now,or AT 50 mm,,,,,,And the comet was never as good as you say, and if someone did everything you tell me, with the comet, is because, the enemy, they do not use AT !!!!!!!!!!and just, they, want easy games and they say, you have to do nerf to the comet ......... where is the strategy there ???I also remember those moments where the Narshon killed my comet with a flanking speed, I also remember, when the hetzer kills in almost 90% of the cases my comets withflankingspeed, one shot !!!!, and nothing it wroked for me ....... so, what are you talking about?, if you turn by half enemy field with a comet, there could only be three reasons, 1-) the enemy is noob, 2-) or the enemy simply does not use a hetzer, or AT to defend himself, or Narshon, the most OP that I saw of the axis, very profitable by the way .... 3-) the enemy no longer has resources ....


Note: the KT is not useless, the SP is useless !!!, and as far as it i know, the comet is a tank, not tank-fighter, and it does not have camouflage !!!!!!!!!!!, and do not give me the fact that it has flanking speed, because with its current armor, it can not stand even an AT 50 mm, besides, the hetzer also has flanking speed, and you can not kill it with a 57 mm of the ally! !!

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Tiger1996
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Tiger1996 » 13 Dec 2017, 17:40

Just been talking with Shanks on Steam, we also played a game together... I think he is actually starting to like the new Comets after all ;)
So, like I told you... Nashorn ALWAYS die with 1 shot by 95mm Churchill. And the Hetzer doesn't have HE rounds.. also dies easily by Achilles from ambush using "hit and run tactics" ability from long range, only big tanks will require Achilles to also activate APCR beside the "hit and run tactics" so they can penetrate from such a long distance.. such as Tiger1, JagdPanther, KT, Panther, etc. However, the Hetzer often gets penetrated quite easily by the "hit and run tactics" ability without any need of APCR activation.

Also, by the way... I played 3vs4 game with some average/new players yesterday (we lost at the end) but my Comets were very valuable and I still killed Panthers and Tigers, also.. my 6pdr penetrated Pz4.H twice at long range frontally and killed it.

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MarKr
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby MarKr » 13 Dec 2017, 18:11

Axis 50mm AT penetration chance at max range: 68% (frontal); damage: 250 - 400 (on average 325) Comet has 700HP. 5% lucky chance for one-shot kill, otherwise needs at least 2 hits to destroy the Comet. 50mmAT accuracy at max range vs Comet: 54%

Hetzer penetration of Comet at max range: 76% (frontal); damage: 400-600 (on average 500) Comet has 700HP. 5% lucky chance for one-shot kill, otherwise needs 2 hits to destroy the Comet. Hetzer accuracy at max range vs Comet: 60%.
Cost: 450MP 50F

Comet penetration of Hetzer at max range: 196% (so guaranteed penetration even from front); damage: 450-650 (550 on average) Hetzer has 600HP (you are about to one-shot it more often than not). Comet accuracy at max range vs Hetzer: ~64%.
Cost: 470MP 60F

This is in open-combat (no camo on Hetzer). If Hetzer uses camo, then penetration, hit chances and damage go higher but that is OK because Hetzer is then using an ability against a unit that is not using anything.

Nashorn will mess up Comet. It should have messed up Comet even before the change because Nashorn can penetrate without a problem even Croc Churchill and Croc churchills is meant to be the heaviest armored tank of CW. So ifComet could bounce off shots from Nashorn it was unintended anyway. When you think about it, Nashorn is pretty much dedicated high-tier tank hunter with a sole purpose of destroying enemy tanks, Comet is a tank if you think that Comet should survive shots from Nashorn, what should, according to you, be a counter to Comets?

And what does the 57mm vs Hetzer has to do with anything? It's been like this for ages it is nothing new.
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kwok
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby kwok » 13 Dec 2017, 18:27

This is a case of: When formulas stop working suddenly it’s the modders who are to blame.

I think more time for meta to evolve is necessary before making all these “mod is broken” claims.

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Shanks
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Shanks » 13 Dec 2017, 18:39

when I speak of narshon, I mean it can destroy the comet, before this change, easily, (I'm not against this), I just said, in summary, that the shaft has good anti-tank capacity, and that the comet does not should decrease the armor, but in the same way, let's see what happens with this change, it's fine, it's a matter of trying, but I think, they will end up complaining about the comet again ...when I talk about 57 mm, I only made a relative comparison, with 50 mm of the axis (it is less effective than 50 mm)...what it means, and I say again, the axis has good antitank capability, and I think that this change is not necessary, we will see what happens later

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Jalis
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Jalis » 13 Dec 2017, 19:40

For people who will not love comet change, frustration can come from fact it was on brits faction the only about well armoured and well gunned tank. It is something common for axis, but very rare for allies, pershing is the only exemple now. Roughly it was an almost panther for almost the cost of a panther. It is not to say actual comet configuration is not interresting, simply the nerf let an empty space no other unit can fill.

Like it was comet was slightly too armoured (rear and side, not frontal) and slightly upgunned (he is still).

Probably it was intented like I described it at start, that would explain why it was a high end tank in the command tree.

If I can give a counter/inverse exemple it would be pe fallschirmjager. At vcoh, probably for historical reason, fallschirm had no paradrop abilities and were unable to repop everywhere. Bk give FG the paradrop abilities despite it was an historical inacurracy. Probably it was to fill an empty space and give axe an alter ego to brit and US para.

nothing will fill empty space comet previously occupied.

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Shanks
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Shanks » 13 Dec 2017, 20:24

you're right, no other unit can fill the vacuum left by this unit, besides the shaft has the hetzer and the narshon, and if it's the problem, that the narshon died from a shot of 95 mm, then only, you should change the damage 95 mm, and not the comet's armor, but I'll try the change for a week maybe

kwok
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby kwok » 14 Dec 2017, 01:00

That's how most of allied units are designed though; more than that but how entire factions are designed. Not to be well-rounded.
By design choice there is no vacuum to be filled because there should not have been a spot for that type of unit anyways. Does RE have a durable tank? Yeah, that's what churchills are for. Does RE have a powerful tank? Yes that's what the comet is for. Used in conjunction they make a team of combined force.

I'm not saying this is the right way to design the mod, my opinions on design are here: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2223
BUT, I can't agree that the comet change was a game-breaking bad change. In the mod history, allies were never meant to have flagshipping strategies. And honestly, flagship vs flagship games pretty much come down to RNG rather than skill.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby mofetagalactica » 14 Dec 2017, 03:27

MarKr wrote:So the time when it just insanely rushed past all defenses and around any unit while bouncing off shots was OK (because it worked for you) but now when you need to use some more tactics it is suddenly useless? Also Hetzers and Nashorns are tank hunters, when they attack from camo, they simply do ton of damage to tanks - same goes for Allies; Tiger had here not so long ago his "test" where camoed Achilles killed KT - is because of that KT completely useless?
Have you actually tried using the Comets in groups? They are cheaper now so it is not so resource-heavy to build at least two of them. If you go 2v1 you will most likely win vs any Axis vehicle, sure, you are very likely to lose one of your Comets but in terms of resources you lost less than opponent.

But nobody holds you, if you like to rather use other doctrines you are free to do so ;)


Remember that allied TD's need to expend lots of ammo in his habilities to be effective, as axis you just cammo and normal shoot.

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Warhawks97
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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby Warhawks97 » 14 Dec 2017, 12:31

Thats true for the US, yes. The CW has guranteed pen vs any Tank IV. So lots of ammo spared actually. And CW has not an issue regarding ammo. RE usually sits on tons of ammo usually.

We already had discussions in forum asking for something RE could actually spend all its ammo for. The 17 pdr on top has the cheapest AP activation cost but also the best one (boosting pen more than axis AP does but still receiving the damage boost like axis. US AP boosts more but deals no additional damage, the 90 mm even less when using AP rounds).

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Re: the comet stinks and also the mod

Postby speeddemon02 » 29 Dec 2017, 22:22

does the comet still have a unit cap of 3 or was that removed with the changes, I would think the unit cap would no longer be needed since they can be more easily destroyed


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