few ideas & suggestions

[Krieger Blitzer]

So, as the title says... I have got few ideas/suggestions to throw around.. as I also haven't really posted any such balance topics myself since quite a long time.

The suggestions are not related. And each idea is dependent by itself so far...


- Justforfun1 (the creator of the historical add-on) is willing to implement a new unit as it seems;
http://www.moddb.com/mods/historical-ad ... n#imagebox
Which is obviously the Kübelwagen.

I do understand that there several units in Afrika which are not available in regular Bk for different reasons.. such as the Panzer 1 & 2, all variants of Panzer.III beside the Matilda and also the Grant for example. But they don't have to be in regular Bk either, that's understandable.

However, the same way how the Panzer.III was recently imported from Afrika to be added for Bk in SE doc... Then I think adding the KubelWagen to regular Bk would be also a great thing to do!
It could be an equivalent to the SAS Jeep in Bk. but where to add it, for which faction or what doctrine? And on which phase of the game?
Honestly no solid ideas yet regarding that.. but maybe as a reward unit to the PE Schwimmwagen in the customization menu.
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- The M15A1 AA half-track really doesn't deserve a limit of 2. I think this unit should be unlimited just like the M16 Quad AA half-track... I think all others would also agree on that.

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- About the Achilles tank destroyer... I do believe that this tank is actually supposed to have HEAT shells instead of HE rounds, no?

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- As for the Elephant, the stationary position ability does not fit for this tank in my opinion.. when this tank stops moving, it's dead. Not to mention that the bonuses you would have prior to activating this ability are not really worth it... I mean, by looking at the tanks with 88mm cannons in the game; Tiger1 -> has accurate long shot ability, Tiger2 and JagdPanther -> both the same!

While in fact, if there is really a tank supposed to have this ability, then it's the Elephant! Without any doubts.
This tank is nothing but a pure long range unit in the first place! Therefore replacing the stationery position ability with the accurate long shot for this tank would make a lot more sense.

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- The so called "hit and run tactics" ability for both Achilles and M10 Wolverine. I think this ability shouldn't "shock" or "suspense" the crew of the targeted tank. Or maybe the whole ability perhaps could be removed and replaced with the "rapid shots" ability instead...




[Maybe more ideas later, but that's all for now]

All thoughts are welcome.

[Redgaarden]

- About the Achilles tank destroyer... I do believe that this tank is actually supposed to have HEAT shells instead of HE rounds, no?

I think a small nerf to HE should be in order. it kills way too often almost an entire squad for little to no cost. And I dont think there are any HEAT shells that are actually better than regular Achillies AP since HEAT shells are most often found on 75mm guns. And I think the concept of AP ammo is a little bit dumb since it's better suited for killing medium tanks than it is for killing heavies. Dont know if I'm the only one feeling like that.

- The so called "hit and run tactics" ability for both Achilles and M10 Wolverine. I think this ability shouldn't "shock" or "suspense" the crew of the targeted tank. Or maybe the whole ability perhaps could be removed and replaced with the "rapid shots" ability instead...

I like this idea. Then we could increase the m10 reload speed to 6-7 secs like other tanks so US can pay to have it shoot faster.
It's already a rapid firing gun. Dont think it needs the shitty 0.5 reload speed ability. And the Hit & Run tactic is in my books quite crucial since all other immobilizing tools doesn't really work. Fx stickies, where I would almost say it has negative range since you have to be throwing it while the vheicle is either A: Standing still or B: Driving torwards you. which makes it totallly useless against people with actual brains and hands. And then there are the landmines, which you plant for 35muni and when tank drives over it just says (insert red text) "Hit Mine" and does nothing else apart from that. (Greyhound Mine) so please do tell. How do you kill axis tanks as US when you can't immobilize it nor pen it? and when you pen it you usually dont do enough dmg to kill it anyway. (excluding Airborne And super pershing)

- The M15A1 AA half-track really doesn't deserve a limit of 2. I think this unit should be unlimited just like the M16 Quad AA half-track... I think all others would also agree on that.

Careful. Luft can't beat every American doctrine if you give armour doctrine some actual anti air.

[sgtToni95]

- About the Achilles tank destroyer... I do believe that this tank is actually supposed to have HEAT shells instead of HE rounds, no?

How should theese work in your opinion? If i'm not mistaken, historically speaking, 17 pdrs didn't have heat shells, but, in the case they had, those should have even higher penetration than current apcr/apds rounds, which would make this tank that you accused many times to be "too cost effective", even more cost effective.

It never actually happened to me that i oneshot a squad, but maybe i'm just unlucky cause every time i use that ability the squad has its men spreaded in a very large area.

I think all others would also agree on that.

(Loved this part )

About what Red said regarding M15, i think Luft's henshel patrol is now really really really effective. I didn't even imagine it would target units on the whole plane's path, nor at guns and all other things. I was imagining what would be if 2 luft players used that at the same time. I think planes of both patrols would reciprocally give view on the entire map, and that would destroy an insanely high amount of units in a very short time.

I find hard to think that if Armor player could make more M15 he would actually do it since to counter paras M4s are a lot better.

If Tiger you're suggesting to remove the limit on M15 because Luft AT patrol is too painful for that, i'd rather nerf a little luft patrol than buff Armor's AA capabilities.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I think 17pdr guns didn't have HE rounds either, or maybe they did.. but since when Bk really cares that much about such things anyway? :P
Regardless, I am with the idea that pure AT stuff shouldn't be capable of countering inf at all, specifically AT guns.. even the small caliber ones btw!
Yet, perhaps with few exceptions after all.

And I can confirm what Red said, as I have definitely seen it wiping out entire squads... I know it depends, but still.. it can surely happen, not rarely.

Also, I don't think Luft patrol needs any nerf whatsoever.. in fact, the Airborne patrol is by far more dangerous in my humble opinion.
Specifically when keeping in mind that AB doc has supply drops! If you think 2 Luft patrols would be so painful, then I can tell you that 2 AB patrols are way much more destructive. I think it's just that some players are not yet used to adapt seeing Axis actually having effective airplanes, maybe because Luft airstrikes always used to suck so hard for a long time in the past.. but now they just finally work I guess.

[Panzerblitz1]

Kübelwagen will not be implemented in BK.

Tiger you don't listen to me... for the last time stop with your crusade against HE, you need to understand that repeating the same thing over and over again won't change our minds.

Yes 17 pdr had HE shells, not the best but a very effective one for its size. (The HE shell initially developed for the 17-pounder lacked power. Due to the high-powered cartridge, the shell walls had to be thicker to stand the stresses of firing, leaving less room for explosive. Reducing the size of the propelling charge for the HE shell allowed the use of a thinner-walled and more powerful shell.)


All HE shells, including US/AXIS/CW can wipe out any entire squad if not at cover, not only a faction in particular, this could happend to anybody in the game.

Luft patrol don't need any nerf either, they are perfectly fine as they are, you just need to deal with it.

[Krieger Blitzer]

So, I can see you actually agree that Luft patrol doesn't need any nerf. Which is what I am saying... That's a good thing I would say.

Regarding the HE shells though, I can't see a crusade of any sort here.. except a suggestion about the Achilles HE rounds, given the fact that BK Mod isn't really based on realism, but balance in the first place... So, it doesn't matter that much if the 17pdr had HE shells in reality or not.

To clarify, here we speak about a particular unit.. it's the Achilles, this unit is available for all CW docs. When you compare it with other similar units, such as the M36 Jackson... Then you would quickly observe that the Achilles is cheaper, earlier available.. and also has HE as well as hit and run tactics ability. M36 doesn't have such an ability, neither does it have HE rounds.. the HE rounds were removed from the Jackson in order to prevent it from countering infantry, so here it sounds odd how the Achilles does have HE rounds but not Jacksons. You get my point there?
Realism doesn't matter in Bk Mod, or at least not always.

And we didn't speak about the Firefly or any other unit with the 17pdr... Just sgtToni95 said "17pdr guns didn't have HEAT" that's when i suggested replacing the HE rounds of the Achilles with HEAT rounds. So I replied him stating that realism doesn't always matter. Which is a well known fact for Bk Mod. Therefore we are not discussing if HE rounds existed in reality for this gun whether not!

Also, as long as I keep spilling my points and suggestions in a civilized manner.. then I don't have to stop with anything. Whenever I think I am able to bring my idea in a different approach or in a way of which is more clear and consistent than the previous attempts, then I wouldn't hesitate to repeat. Nonetheless, I am obviously not spamming the same topic over and over... That's a general game discussion. My goal is also not to change your mind considering a specific matter in whatever way, we are just having a discussion.. which is an opportunity for everyone to throw their suggestions and discuss about them. So that maybe we could come up with something more creative and interesting!

Hope my whole viewpoint is clear enough to you now, and thanks for reading.

[Panzerblitz1]

Regarding the HE shells though, I can't see a crusade of any sort here..

Do you want a copy of all the posts you made regarding that subject? yes now you're talking about the Achilles, but hey, its a way to come back to your main battle horse but with a different subject thinking we are that dumb, its always the same tactics Tiger, you take something else to come back to the main obssession...again.

Yes historical accuracy isn't a big deal has we still have HE shells for 2 pdr... i could agree more with you on that, but it is for all the same, you could whine if only the CW or the US had such things, but since its for all the same, just deal with it, especially on emplacements, we already spent a lot of times explaining how to over ride that.

Bringing new ideas, new suggestions is good, coming back with the same idea over and over again when you had clear answers from us regarding that subject is called spamming/trolling.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Do you want a copy of all the posts you made regarding that subject? yes now you're talking about the Achilles, but hey, its a way to come back to your main battle horse but with a different subject thinking we are that dumb, its always the same tactics Tiger, you take something else to come back to the main obssession...again.

But I said:

Also, as long as I keep spilling my points and suggestions in a civilized manner.. then I don't have to stop with anything. Whenever I think I am able to bring my idea in a different approach or in a way of which is more clear and consistent than the previous attempts, then I wouldn't hesitate to repeat. Nonetheless, I am obviously not spamming the same topic over and over... That's a general game discussion.

So it does not matter how many times, specifically when each time is at different times too. And if I think someone is dumb, then I wouldn't actually hesitate to tell that in their face... I am a straight-like person.

Yes historical accuracy isn't a big deal has we still have HE sheels for 2 pdr... i could agree more with you on that, but it is for all the same, you could whine if only the CW or the US had such things, but since its for all the same, just deal with it, especially on emplacements, we already spent a lot of times explaining how to over ride that.

Glad you can agree on that tho. But that's exactly why I keep trying to approach the matter of HE rounds every now and then! As I try to address this subject with a constructive discussion, rather than "whining" btw. Since I believe that HE rounds could be still managed in a better more realistic way for both sides, yet without hurting the balance.

Bringing new ideas, new suggestions is good, coming back with the same idea over and over again when you had clear answers from us regarding that subject is called spamming/trolling.

And no, I am not simply bringing the same idea over and over again.. but i am trying a different approach each time when I do. And at separate occasions too! This can't be considered spamming or trolling, unless you want it to be so.
Spamming and trolling is obviously to SPAM the same line over and over again or to keep double posting... I bet you know that even better than I do.


Recently, I had always been very reluctant to begin any balancing threads btw.. reasons vary, but one of the reasons is what you are doing here now, willingly or unwillingly, my goals of such discussions are absolutely pure. Nevertheless, for some reasons.. u keep coming up with a negative attitude.

Therefore I have to ask you kindly, Panzerblitz1, if you don't mind.. please let's have no further arguments in that direction on this topic. However, if you still think that what I am doing here is spamming, then you could either ignore.. or maybe we can discuss more in private...
If you think it's necessary of course.

[Panzerblitz1]

Nah its fine.

[sgtToni95]

If Luft patrol is not too painful for armor, and HE shermans are already more effective than M15s, what's the point of removing the limit on this unit?
I think keeping Armor not "all-rounded" and leaving some weaknesses (like not having the best AA) helps keeping the game more collaborative and balanced. I wish all docs could get such changes/weaknesses.

About achilles, you didn't answer what was my real question wasn't "is this realistic", since you use this argument in both directions many times anyways.

My question was: how do you think should heat behave? I mean, would you like to give this tank more penetration so it would be able to penetrate jadgtiger, kingtiger and elephant frontally with ease?

As always you basically replied only to side parts which you could reply but didn't have significant meaning, and the only part that ended with a question mark and had a meaning in commenting your suggestion, you just ignored it.

I said it never happened to me wiping out entire squads, but i know that CAN happen, as i've said in the other topic that boys CAN kill infantry squads, and that RA HE halftrack CAN oneshot Fallshirm squad. I didn't say "achilles CAN'T wipe out entire squads".

I still think that if luft patrol targets units on all map, just it needs sight on them, is still more dangerous if 2 are used, they spot all map, and they aim at units on all map.

With 2 AB patrols used, you'll still hit 2 (even if big) areas with the chance of missing moving targets that will see planes coming. Theese are just points of view tho, i don't want to discuss this any further.


PLEASE, answer where i actually make questions using question marks ( ? ) before bringing out more arguments on useless aspects.

[Shanks]

I think they should also take HE from the jagdtiger.........too

[Krieger Blitzer]

If Luft patrol is not too painful for armor, and HE shermans are already more effective than M15s, what's the point of removing the limit on this unit?
I think keeping Armor not "all-rounded" and leaving some weaknesses (like not having the best AA) helps keeping the game more collaborative and balanced. I wish all docs could get such changes/weaknesses.

Luft patrol is indeed painful against Armor, never said otherwise... I only said that the Airborne patrols are even more deadly. Therefore I don't see why the Luft patrol would ever need to be nerfed and not the AB patrol as well.
So far each doctrine has unlimited pieces of AA batteries, some are ineffective for sure.. but therefore unlimited. I do consider the M15A1 not very effective against airplanes due to the fact that it can't rotate 360 degrees and does not have AA firing mode...
Though it's better against inf and light vehicles. So, I think removing the limit on this unit would not suddenly result in a reliable AA for Armor doc, in fact.. this would be just a slight improvement.

About achilles, you didn't answer what was my real question wasn't "is this realistic", since you use this argument in both directions many times anyways.

Everyone does use this argument in both directions, actually. That's because Bk Mod isn't exactly meant to be realistic, but isn't unrealistic either...

My question was: how do you think should heat behave? I mean, would you like to give this tank more penetration so it would be able to penetrate jadgtiger, kingtiger and elephant frontally with ease?

Achilles is an anti-tank unit, HEAT shells would behave just as they are supposed to behave.. after all the Achilles is just another M36 Jackson.. with or without HEAT. But for some reason the Achilles is even better. Since it's available for all docs, cheaper.. earlier available and has HE rounds too and even unique stuff such as the "hit and run tactics" ability. If the HE rounds were previously removed from the Jackson to prevent it from countering inf, then I can see no reason why the Achilles should keep it on the other hand.

I said it never happened to me wiping out entire squads, but i know that CAN happen, as i've said in the other topic that boys CAN kill infantry squads, and that RA HE halftrack CAN oneshot Fallshirm squad. I didn't say "achilles CAN'T wipe out entire squads".

Well, glad you know it can happen.

I still think that if luft patrol targets units on all map, just it needs sight on them, is still more dangerous if 2 are used, they spot all map, and they aim at units on all map.

Are you trying to say that 2 Luft patrols are dangerous but 2 AB patrols are not? I'd disagree then.. 2 AB patrols are even more dangerous. They drop nukes, which are harmful not only for vehicles but also for infantry... Not to mention that the patrol still includes strafing run plane that exclusively target infantry. Also, this way the number of planes in the sky is doubled.. making it harder for the Axis AA to compete! Not to mention the supply drops that may allow you to call a single bomber as well, at the same time in addition to the patrol.

So, I think if someone believes that the Luft patrol is too powerful and needs a nerf.. then logically, the same person would also have to believe the same way about the AB patrol, otherwise this person would sound kinda biased actually.

With 2 AB patrols used, you'll still hit 2 (even if big) areas with the chance of missing moving targets that will see planes coming. Theese are just points of view tho, i don't want to discuss this any further.

But ya, I can understand that viewpoints can be different after all.

PLEASE, answer where i actually make questions using question marks ( ? ) before bringing out more arguments on useless aspects.

So, I have just answered...

I think they should also take HE from the jagdtiger.........too

Agreed, but only in case all other tank hunters (from both sides) would also lose their HE rounds. Not to mention that the basic shells of the JagdTiger's 128mm cannon is already good against infantry anyway, since it's a high caliber. While the HE ability is in fact a little bit over-exaggerated for the JagdTiger, as it actually hits more like an arty shell somehow...

[Shanks]

I think they should also take HE from the jagdtiger.........too

Agreed, but only in case all other tank hunters (from both sides) would also lose their HE rounds. Not to mention that the basic shells of the JagdTiger's 128mm cannon is already good against infantry anyway, since it's a high caliber. While the HE ability is in fact a little bit over-exaggerated for the JagdTiger, as it actually hits more like an arty shell somehow...

Agreed

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with all the respect of the world ... who is the character who complains about luft planes and asks nerf ?? I just misunderstood? right now, LOOKING all the aircraft patrols are well balanced, and the AAs of all factions, do their job! only that I never see the players create AA, not even the emplacement AA, my last match with armor, vs luft patrols, *3v3* like airb patrols, DO NOT ACHIEVE MAKING A GREAT DAMAGE, JUST 3 AA! ON THE SIDE OF ALLIED AND 4 SIDE OF AXIS+++ more AA (6) of the bases, which I believe collaborated

[MarKr]

As for JT and its HE - the unit is meant to be a late game slow moving battering ram. It is slow, can be flanked easily and dies even easier to air attacks. The HE shot is part of the "battering ram" intended role as it deals easily with emplacements. As such I think it can stay, it might get a higher ammo price and/or cooldown so that it cannot be spammed so easily but I would like to keep it there.
All in all the costs/cooldowns/effectiveness of single HE shots is still set from the start of BK when it had targetting problems and thus never worked properly, so some adjusetments could be made in case they perform too well.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Ya, I think the cool-down time of some HE abilities particularly for AT guns (both naked and emplacements) is actually too short.. so increasing the cool-down times might be a good solution, specifically for all units that are primarily supposed to be "anti-tank" in the first place. Those should have longer cool-down for their HE rounds compared to other multi-role units! Thanks for the valuable input right there, MarKr.

[Redgaarden]

Ya, I think the cool-down time of some HE abilities particularly for AT guns (both naked and emplacements) is actually too short.. so increasing the cool-down times might be a good solution, specifically for all units that are primarily supposed to be "anti-tank" in the first place. Those should have longer cool-down for their HE rounds compared to other multi-role units! Thanks for the valuable input right there, MarKr.

I think the AOE and max distance dmg is way too high for most HE like 17pounder HE a little for 88/90mm (Though it's not weird for them to be effective) I think they should deal reduced dmg to targets that are in the outer circle of the explosion instead of wiping everything within the AOE.
Edit: OFC they do reduced dmg in the outer edges of the circles you fuckwits. I meant non-lethal dmg to infantry like most common infantry (60hp)

with all the respect of the world ... who is the character who complains about luft planes and asks nerf ?? I just misunderstood? right now, LOOKING all the aircraft patrols are well balanced, and the AAs of all factions, do their job! only that I never see the players create AA, not even the emplacement AA, my last match with armor, vs luft patrols, *3v3* like airb patrols, DO NOT ACHIEVE MAKING A GREAT DAMAGE, JUST 3 AA! ON THE SIDE OF ALLIED AND 4 SIDE OF AXIS+++ more AA (6) of the bases, which I believe collaborated

I'm complaing since AA isn't working for all factions. M15 is just garbage and is lierally the only AA avalible for Armour doctrine. What I'm asking for is a way to deal with the bullshit that is Henschel Anti tank runs. And I'm not buying the bullshit that i have to invest 300 muni in smoke bombs and m20 defensive aura to cope with it like someone adviced you to do. And the ability doesn't even satisfy needs raping all my tanks. It goes for all anti tank guns and halftracks which are on the otehr side of the map. I would almsot prefer if the call-in just came with some stealhbombers that killed everything in the radius immediately. Atleast it would keep my units outside the radius safe and stop making me waste my click trying to save dead units.

I think they should also take HE from the jagdtiger.........too

It's quite a vital thing for PE TH since their only other anti emplacemnt they have is a 4 tubed stuka rocket launcher from a Hotchiss makes them starved for anti emplacement. But its' effectivess against infnatry is something I would call unfair since it can shoot from the Fog of war in some rare instance and is undodgeable. So I would like to hear why you want them removed.
Well the have assault pioneers for emplacements, but ironically they get countered by emplacements.

P.s What does "Allied War Machine" do at the moment? does it only give back Shermans? how many? I dont know what the ability does atm.

[Warhawks97]

i didnt read all posts bc i am very busy with uni work. But:

1. why not having Kübel.

2. Yes... i mentioned it somewhere. I dont get the M15A limit. its micro intense, fragile, limited arc of fire, no AA mode. Those fearing that anti inf capabilties will become too strong, armor players choose shermans anyway vs inf.

3. 17 pdr had no HEAT

4. yep. Also from my side: All 88 LL/71 should have 70 range at default. ATM only KT has it while others stick on 70. This and long range capability for the elephant. Stat mode is not required bc 1; its kind of "dying mode" and 2; the gun shoots already fast.

5. Yes. This ability is crap. Rapid fire makes sense. Also the current reload speed is 4.2 seconds. Lowered with vets and commander vet. The ambush shot also lowers reload speed and gives flank speed opportunity. So technically the allied td already perform "hit and run" tactics. This "Hit and run" ability shit is better suited for star wars company of heroes where tds have some sort of traktor beam that doesnt allow the enemie vhessel to move.

@Red. 6-7 sec for US 76 gun is stupid. It wasnt superior in terms of penetration in rl and even worse in BK. However, in rl the gun was a very quick shooting gun as reload was much easier and esspecially compared to 17. In game axis 75 from Tank IV has max 5,5 sec reload vs 6 sec of firefly and 7 for 76 gun. In terms of reload speed it should be much more 76<Firefly/Panther. The 76 should have the fastest reload speed ammong all guns of similiar calibre while 17 pdr would be the worst, esspecially those of the firefly. Reloading this was horror as the gun breach literally reached till the end of the turret. The 76 gun would have some compensation for its bad penetration power.


@Toni: Lol, armor "all- rounded bc of M15A1? You know its an vehicle like M16 or 20 mm based axis vehicles, just "worse" due to cost, speed etc? Its not an arty tool. If the M15 would enable armor doc to magically beat 88 guns, TD doc etc easily i could get your point. But this makes no sense to call it "all rounded" bc of an M15 limit removal.

[mofetagalactica]

Also, I don't think Luft patrol needs any nerf whatsoever.. in fact, the Airborne patrol is by far more dangerous in my humble opinion.
Specifically when keeping in mind that AB doc has supply drops! If you think 2 Luft patrols would be so painful, then I can tell you that 2 AB patrols are way much more destructive. I think it's just that some players are not yet used to adapt seeing Axis actually having effective airplanes, maybe because Luft airstrikes always used to suck so hard for a long time in the past.. but now they just finally work I guess.

I disagree on that, luft patrol is stronger than AB patrol right now. The destructive power of the luft patrol is way too much, you even destroy things that you didnt even notice that where there or in some weird place over the map, also can't be avoided if you dont expend resources while his counterpart can be avoided just by right clickling, you must be a really german fan-boy to say that ab patrol is better than luft. Some option would be making them only being able to shoot inside the radius of the hability and not outside it.

Anyway i agree about HE being too strong needs a nerf, also about AT and tankhunters having HE (pak37 and pdr17 for example) its something really dumb.

Also adding the kubel should be cool im super ok with that.

[Krieger Blitzer]

P.s What does "Allied War Machine" do at the moment? does it only give back Shermans? how many? I dont know what the ability does atm.

Currently it replaces unlimited number of tanks.. and anything except Pershings and Jacksons.



Nice post, Hawks

I disagree on that, luft patrol is stronger than AB patrol right now. The destructive power of the luft patrol is way too much, you even destroy things that you didnt even notice that where there or in some weird place over the map, also can't be avoided if you dont expend resources while his counterpart can be avoided just by right clickling, you must be a really german fan-boy to say that ab patrol is better than luft. Some option would be making them only being able to shoot inside the radius of the hability and not outside it.

That's why we are suggesting to remove the limit of the M15 AA half-track. Even though I don't think the Luft patrol is more dangerous, as I believe both patrols are more or less equally devastating.. and are just fine as they are now in my opinion.

[sgtToni95]

My question was: how do you think should heat behave? I mean, would you like to give this tank more penetration so it would be able to penetrate jadgtiger, kingtiger and elephant frontally with ease?

Achilles is an anti-tank unit, HEAT shells would behave just as they are supposed to behave.. after all the Achilles is just another M36 Jackson.. with or without HEAT. But for some reason the Achilles is even better. Since it's available for all docs, cheaper.. earlier available and has HE rounds too and even unique stuff such as the "hit and run tactics" ability. If the HE rounds were previously removed from the Jackson to prevent it from countering inf, then I can see no reason why the Achilles should keep it on the other hand.

I'm ok with the answer to the luft part, then of course you wrote lot of things on aspects i pointed out as useless (so i'll just ignore your words as you do many times with mine), and your answer on this one was "Achilles is an anti-tank unit, HEAT shells would behave just as they are supposed to behave.." and then you repeated once again your bla bla on HE shells..


To be clearer, your initial post was this

About the Achilles tank destroyer... I do believe that this tank is actually supposed to have HEAT shells instead of HE rounds, no?

Not sure this is very constructive, i'd try to put here some lines on how would HEAT work, penetration against bigger tanks and stuff..

You really sound here like "I don't like Achilles having HE, and probably (based on?? ) many people will agree with me, so why don't we give it HEAT shells (which you think Achilles was supposed to have) and then they'll do whatever they'll do"


@Hawks, i didn't say that's bad, just tiger's suggestions seemed more "following my personal taste, game should be as i suggest here, without further explanations than "because why not?".

[Krieger Blitzer]

Not sure this is very constructive, i'd try to put here some lines on how would HEAT work, penetration against bigger tanks and stuff..

I guess you should think a little bit more about ur question before wondering why I ignored it the first time.. because; "How do you think HEAT shells should behave?" is a very strange question actually. It's more like saying "How do you think cars should behave??" Well, they are cars. So, guess what.. they would behave the same way how cars are supposed to behave.. as they won't fly for example! Got the meaning of my answer now?
The same way, HEAT shells for Achilles would behave just as any other HEAT shells in the game...

[sgtToni95]

My question was: how do you think should heat behave? I mean, would you like to give this tank more penetration so it would be able to penetrate jadgtiger, kingtiger and elephant frontally with ease?

How should theese work in your opinion? If i'm not mistaken, historically speaking, 17 pdrs didn't have heat shells, but, in the case they had, those should have even higher penetration than current apcr/apds rounds, which would make this tank that you accused many times to be "too cost effective", even more cost effective.

This is what I wrote.. Are you trying to highlight how you just ignore parts of my questions? That's why i say that it's quite frustrating to argue with you. Bye

[Krieger Blitzer]

I accused it to be too cost effective and even better than the Jackson obviously because of the HE rounds.. meaning that it counters infantry almost as good as tanks. While the HEAT shells would make it more like an M10 Wolverine but with a faster turret rotation... And I already explained this before.
Not my problem if you are having troubles to understand what I'm saying!

[Shanks]

I'm complaing since AA isn't working for all factions. M15 is just garbage and is lierally the only AA avalible for Armour doctrine. What I'm asking for is a way to deal with the bullshit that is Henschel Anti tank runs. And I'm not buying the bullshit that i have to invest 300 muni in smoke bombs and m20 defensive aura to cope with it like someone adviced you to do. And the ability doesn't even satisfy needs raping all my tanks. It goes for all anti tank guns and halftracks which are on the otehr side of the map. I would almsot prefer if the call-in just came with some stealhbombers that killed everything in the radius immediately. Atleast it would keep my units outside the radius safe and stop making me waste my click trying to save dead units

I understand (I am a player of USA), but then, afterwards, they will say, "the luft patrol is useless", and started again in an endless cycle of complaints, I think ... you could also recover the Sherman with ,war machine, and if the problem is the loss of the SP, then, make me bring it back, I always asked for it ... also, you have to keep in mind, that the axis suffers from this same disease, and I think sometimes it is more painful to the axis ..... not always good, too realism, I mean what I said before, the SP, should return again, in a game of this style, the jagdtiger and KT can come again!

It's quite a vital thing for PE TH since their only other anti emplacemnt they have is a 4 tubed stuka rocket launcher from a Hotchiss

I think the stuka, (only 50 of ammunition for four rockets), is more than enough for emplacement, besides, it seems that you forget the mortar

Note:what the fuck i did...and sorry for the English of the Google translator, but I think you will understand

[sgtToni95]

I accused it to be too cost effective and even better than the Jackson obviously because of the HE rounds.. meaning that it counters infantry almost as good as tanks. While the HEAT shells would make it more like an M10 Wolverine but with a faster turret rotation... And I already explained this before.
Not my problem if you are having troubles to understand what I'm saying!

My questions were those i mentioned, and you still didn't answer since you say "the tank should be an anti tank and not have HE" which is how the tank would behave, not HEAT shells.. your answer on heat was "Heat will behave as heat are supposed to behave" (really MY bad if i didn't understand this) which means... nothing regarding my questions. But ok, i'm too stupid to understand, sorry