WARNING skills needed ahead

DolphinsAreGaySharks · Post by **DolphinsAreGaySharks** » 10 Sep 2017, 01:53

Just nerf this fuckn shit! Seriously aa is useless! Panzerknucker is the most stupid thing in game, low cd, very large area you cant escape it, aoe , kills everything. Or just simply make aa worth and usefull. To this little kid Beren and every other ''smart'' guy i swear i ll basebomb him in every game and abuse every single thing that exist in game from now on.
BK: zero skills needed..!

Post by **kwok** » 10 Sep 2017, 02:21

Should I even bother downloading if I can bet that it's a small map game?

Redgaarden · Post by **Redgaarden** » 10 Sep 2017, 06:37

I dont think it really justifies the ability to be that good, even in small maps. The only thing big maps do is to make it easier to kill the planes with aa. You're still going to lose a shiton, or all your vehicles you have. And you still cant dodge anything.

BK: zero skills needed..!

This game does not punish mistakes, nor does it reward "Good plays" this game is all about knowing and decision making. You have to know that in certain matchups you're going to lose no matter how good you are. As kwok was going to say about small maps is one thing you have to know about, the game is almost alwasy pre-determined by the map.

Post by **Kr0noZ** » 10 Sep 2017, 13:12

Is it on 5.0?
If not I won't watch it bc I won't downgrade again for a replay...

Panzer-Lehr-Division · Post by **Panzer-Lehr-Division** » 10 Sep 2017, 13:35

Well, you need still alot of skills. I can Teach you a Bit how to do right or ask other vet's.

you should Adapter finaly then come to forum and directly say somethink need nerf/buff just because you yet can Not Deal with it.

Panzer-Lehr-Division · Post by **Panzer-Lehr-Division** » 10 Sep 2017, 13:43

I mean you always say you're the hero and Master of bk:'D well that's war you doing losing to better player's then you example you always kick player's you know wich better then you example, Wurf,Tiger,kenshin,idlike and me and many more... however now you gonna come up now lieying or somethink About you never lost to anyone and shit standart... I Not offensive AT all I am just telling you the Truth i await a comment from you now, where you exactly write lieying storys and so shit so i keep checking forum for your funny comment. SRY for double posting keep both i just wrote on phone

DolphinsAreGaySharks · Post by **DolphinsAreGaySharks** » 10 Sep 2017, 14:24

It is on 5.0!
Lehr my skills are much more inferior than yours. It s like the first time i m complaining so intense about a thing on bk in contrast with you and many other players who have made numerous posts and complaints on the forum and not only..
This panzerknucker thing doesnt have a counter and if you cant understand it it s not my problem. The only counter is to just not make armor.. :mrgreen:

AA never worked, it doesnt work and i dont think they ll ever make any change on it.
I cant get it how people are fine with such things..I mean you just press a button, staring, and watch everything dies. You dont want to make the game more skill based? ok.. but dont ever tell me again about skills on this game cause you cant even reach mine and my way of thinking 8-)

Warhawks97 · Post by **Warhawks97** » 10 Sep 2017, 14:58

Ok. The game needs mirco managment and quick decision making.

Most importantly is to know your enemie and what docs they choose and their gamestyle. So for me the most important thing was to know all players. Thats why i watched all replays i could get just to know exactly how my enemie is playing.

About the ability: Recently people complained planes are useless, now OP. I think this ability could use a bit longer cooldown or higher cost.

1. It attacks all vehicles in the line accross the map and not just in that circle
2. It can and does hit hidden AT guns when they are in the line
3. It can shoot from afar so even if the plane gets shot down it can make 1-3 shots at targets.

The ability can, if right used, like in a decisive tank battle, turn the entire game.
About AA´s we have quite contradicting statments here in the forum.

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:This panzerknucker thing doesnt have a counter and if you cant understand it it s not my problem. The only counter is to just not make armor..
AA never worked, it doesnt work and i dont think they ll ever make any change on it.

In the past a single Bofors and two M16 HT in AA mode managed to shoot down so far all incoming planes except one that managed to damage a tank.
I think its largely based on map size and where AA is placed.

Panzer-Lehr-Division · Post by **Panzer-Lehr-Division** » 10 Sep 2017, 15:04

The actual thrash Talk i hoped for ok when you the Best so stop noob slashing back then always when you lost Bad excuses like basearty and shit:'D or when my pfunder 1 Hit killed your tigerace because you that Bad using tiger's vs pfunder emplacement.. I remember you called me hacker for that, Wurf and me always laught when we join your game or any other People with decent stats and you keep kicking them but let people play with 18- stats :'D you just Proof us that we in every case better then you. nexttime i let markr etc stream before joining your lobby, however Most People streamed me anyways when you kicked me saying ' He is a noob or that's a normal move by this noob' hell even noob's Win you and at the end you mad asf and keep kick Them too lol. So better don't stay scared dare fight me i remember autry game me and belisar vs you we went inf/ra because we knew IT will be boring game While i did really nothing just to Not make you mad At end of game you call me basebomber while i was doing nothing but laughting at you and Made my self some popcorn. Also you the First one complaining because you suck you blame dev's in game always how Bad they are making this mod. but it's just you being bad AT all this i Do Not even have to make a big wall of text because everyone know you suck but having a Bad mouth i also remember you added me 4-3 times as friend AT end when we was against you removed me:D by the way bro it's named 'Panzerknacker':D get better. I mean you say you inferior well my replays and streams say's somethink Different... and please stop kick me noob.. And if you mean by skills,keep kicking people Who i lose to or being mad all game i lose then you're right i don't want these kind of your 'skillz'.... one day i make a smurf acc just to kick your ass and will upload it here.. So be prepared

Post by **Kr0noZ** » 10 Sep 2017, 15:21

Would you please stop this Kindergarten?
It's like kids throwing sand with you two...
Either bitch at each other in PMs or I'll start removing your nonsense here ^^
The topic is the AT Airraid, and that can be debated objectively without devolving this into a "you're less skilled than me"-fight!

Panzer-Lehr-Division · Post by **Panzer-Lehr-Division** » 10 Sep 2017, 15:40

Ok sorry Kronoz just can't hold my self when i See him insult other people just read what He Wrote about beren. He lost to him i wounder he never get's warned He alway's insult people in Forum.

Post by **MarKr** » 10 Sep 2017, 17:02

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:Just nerf this fuckn shit! Seriously aa is useless! Panzerknucker is the most stupid thing in game, low cd, very large area you cant escape it, aoe , kills everything. Or just simply make aa worth and usefull.

I watched your replay and focused on situations with Henschels and AA effectiveness:

Spoiler: show

So...when you say that AA is useless, I cannot find a single case that would support your claim - in pretty much all cases when there was a plane flying in direction of an AA, it got shot down. Both your base AAs had Vet level3 purely from plane kills, sale had one base AA at lvl3 and one at lvl2 (most of that was from plane kills too). The Henschel ability has short cooldown, true, but it costs 200 ammo so Beren had to spend 2400ammo on those 12 strikes and 8 of them destroyed only one or no unit at all and I dare to say that if you had one or two AA units or if one of your team mates built some M16s for you (or AB player built some AA emplacements) the shot down count would get way higher.

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:This panzerknucker thing doesnt have a counter and if you cant understand it it s not my problem. The only counter is to just not make armor..
AA never worked, it doesnt work and i dont think they ll ever make any change on it.

If I counted correctly, there were 31 planes in total sent by Luft player, 15 got shot down and your team together in the entire game built only 2-3 AA units and always had only 1 in the field at a time.

Post by **Kr0noZ** » 10 Sep 2017, 17:25

Yeah, that's what I noticed as well (still watching atm), there's almost no AA effort on the allied team... not surprising that you got your butt handed to you by airstrikes^^
Also, while the map was adequately sized it had a lot of ammo, so the cost was never an issue. At +50 ammo there's not a lot of reason to use these abilities in moderation.

Redgaarden · Post by **Redgaarden** » 10 Sep 2017, 18:19

This panzerknucker thing doesnt have a counter and if you cant understand it it s not my problem. The only counter is to just not make armor..
AA never worked, it doesnt work and i dont think they ll ever make any change on it.

Nah, AA works, it's just typical blitzkrieg not being obvious in what is better. Like for example wirblewind without HE + Anti air poisition has worse anti air capabilities than a wirblewind on the move without HE ammo.
And I haven't really watched your replay, but if you were armour doctrine there is even less you can do since they dont even have any anti air. But bk might trick you into buying the m15 because it has the name "Anti air" in it. Just dont fall in the trap and just sacrafice some tanks to appease the luft waffe gods.

Endro · Post by **Endro** » 10 Sep 2017, 18:41

Redgaarden wrote:
...like for example wirblewind without HE + Anti air poisition has worse anti air capabilities than a wirblewind on the move without HE ammo...

I can confirm and Wirblewind don't AIM on somes positions ( like he don't see the planes, but he have clear view ).

edit: not only the Wirblewind, Mobelwagen and Ostwind and probably others too.

Post by **Nieles** » 10 Sep 2017, 18:58

Is does seem to affect all mobile german AA and not the static ones.
Shermans for example do shoot at planes.

Warhawks97 · Post by **Warhawks97** » 10 Sep 2017, 19:06

Redgaarden wrote:
Nah, AA works, it's just typical blitzkrieg not being obvious in what is better. Like for example wirblewind without HE + Anti air poisition has worse anti air capabilities than a wirblewind on the move without HE ammo.

What exactly do you mean?

DolphinsAreGaySharks · Post by **DolphinsAreGaySharks** » 10 Sep 2017, 19:08

@MarKr First of all you know that the armor doc no longer has any AA unit? You re telling me that my mates had to spend mp and recources just to counter air powers. Cause my teamates we re doing a party and had plenty of mp to spend..And still even if you build some AA at least half of the henschels will hit their target and they always hit hard or they can simply arty them and every AA usa has dies comparatively easy! Seriously i dont know if you actually ever be on such situtations or even play the game cause you always describe things so utopically. I spend 1900mp for a SP and a single button can kill it even if i play it on a very safe way. Meanwhile having to face KT, panthers. Airbourne's similar power isnt even that good, if you good move your armor then you can avoid the bombs. Luft's are like chasing you until you die. I can accept many things to happen on bk like my pershings to die one shot by a panther or a KT or get immobilized by enemy arty but this power is simply ridiculous. ONE power-10 tanks destroyed something like that..
As far the ammo issues i dont think neither allies nor axis had any problem with ammo on this map.
And no the shot down count of planes wouldnt be way higher cause it never was and wont ever be. I dare you or anyone else to prove me wrong by showing me a replay that AA did an exceptional job.

Krieger Blitzer · Post by **Krieger Blitzer** » 10 Sep 2017, 19:15

I think the Airborne doc air patrol airstrike is just as good as the Luft one... AB also has supply drops, meaning more ammo. Yet, both air patrols can be deadly, nonetheless; also both can be easily avoided once you move away with your tanks from the targeted area.. as you even don't always have to shoot down the airplanes! You could just avoid them.
Armor doc AA capability is also just as weak as TH doc btw!

DolphinsAreGaySharks · Post by **DolphinsAreGaySharks** » 10 Sep 2017, 19:47

Tiger1996 wrote:I think the Airborne doc air patrol airstrike is just as good as the Luft one... AB also has supply drops, meaning more ammo. Yet, both air patrols can be deadly, nonetheless; also both can be easily avoided once you move away with your tanks from the targeted area.. as you even don't always have to shoot down the airplanes! You could just avoid them.
Armor doc AA capability is also just as weak as TH doc btw!

As you can see from the replay I always having my tanks on the move and never static. Panzerknucker is unavoidable, it just chases you until your targets die, targetS not just a single target. USA air patrol can be dodged, at least it can you give some chances if you re always on the move. I've dodged them many times.
AA capabilities are 0 for the work they have to do even if you take TH or terror or it doesn't even matter..

Panzer-Lehr-Division · Post by **Panzer-Lehr-Division** » 10 Sep 2017, 20:22

You handle false shit, i saw so many games where not even one henschel could even shot example we fought 2 luft they had 2 henschel abilitys opened in same time 2 ab quad on middle of field, IT Shot down like 9-10 planes. SOOO GIT GUD.

DolphinsAreGaySharks · Post by **DolphinsAreGaySharks** » 10 Sep 2017, 20:52

Panzer-Lehr-Division wrote:You handle false shit, i saw so many games where not even one henschel could even shot example we fought 2 luft they had 2 henschel abilitys opened in same time 2 ab quad on middle of field, IT Shot down like 9-10 planes. SOOO GIT GUD.

Show me the replay or something that proves it otherwise i can also tell you that i ve killed super pershing with kettenkrat..

Panzer-Lehr-Division · Post by **Panzer-Lehr-Division** » 10 Sep 2017, 20:59

Yeah as much as you already have more skillz then i that's enough joke, anyways i ignore you for now:). i'll join you more in future more hope ya not kick me enjoy. Excuse me if this come any offensive to the dev's il stop.

Warhawks97 · Post by **Warhawks97** » 10 Sep 2017, 23:03

The Luft henschel raid is way better than US patrole simply for the reasons mentioned. It attacks everything in the path, not just the target area and moving arround doesnt help and a single plane can hit several targets in the area. AB attacks vehicles and inf, but much easier to dodge.

Regarding armor doc: It needs mates for inf support, arty support and now also for air defense. I am curious what this doc can actually do at the end (except killing meta german players that dont know that the only thing armor doc can is countering panthers and tigers).

I want to ask two things:
1. Can the M15A1 receive an AA mode. It woudlnt fire 360 degrees but at least shoot down something in the fire angel.
2. Can we remove the unit limit of this unit? Why got it even added? M15 Abuses? Having few more of them would allow at least a minimum of air protection

@Tiger: TH doc tanks die far less easy to arty (most arty resistant tanks in BK due to zimmerit), has arty that can smash defensive positions and tank(s) that can stand the best allied anti tank guns easily (The SP is lone exception). Armor doc does not have these features.

Post by **MarKr** » 11 Sep 2017, 00:11

As far as I can see wirblewind in AP and HE mode has the same targetting settings...give me specific situations where that happens so that I can have a look at it. It might be the case that when the vehicle is moving, the vehicle keeps changing a little bit the direction it faces (based on terrain) and the gun keeps adjusting to the movement but that should affect all AAs the same way not only Axis.

@Dolphin:

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:First of all you know that the armor doc no longer has any AA unit?

Armor has M15A1, regardless of what Red says (and the source he has?) the units might not be as good as M16 but still is prefectly capable of destroying planes.

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:You re telling me that my mates had to spend mp and recources just to counter air powers. Cause my teamates we re doing a party and had plenty of mp to spend..

You are providing your mates with units that are direct counter to some of Axis best units (Pershings vs Tigers/Panthers) and you're telling me that it is too much of a hassle for them to provide lousy HT for you in return? Also in the course of the game there wwere many situations where you or your team mates could spare the resources for an AA halftrack.

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:And still even if you build some AA at least half of the henschels will hit their target and they always hit hard or they can simply arty them and every AA usa has dies comparatively easy!

I am sort of confused about your idea of a "good AA"...you would like one HT for 330MP 35F to completely negate an ability that costs 200 ammo? Just look at the gameplay you posted here. 31 planes from Luft player, 15 shot down (I know you can do basic math, but still need to remind that it is veery close to 50% shotdown rate) and MOST OF IT WAS DONE BY YOUR BASE AA - units that you start with and don't need to spend any resources to get them. These AAs use EXACTELY the same weapon file (weapon stats and everything) as M16 (when not in static AA mode). So these can shoot down half of all planes and you're telling me that investing into AA units is useless?

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:Seriously i dont know if you actually ever be on such situtations or even play the game cause you always describe things so utopically.

I might tell you things that sound theoretical but you haven't given me a single argument that would prove me wrong. I tell you "team should provide AA for you" and you say "lol, my team should provide something? They cannot" but as I said, there were plenty of situations where you and your team had resources to spare but they did not.
You say "AA is useless" but the AA you had in the game from start managed to shot down almost 50% of all planes that were used in the match by Axis and you did not even have to pay for that, while opponent had to pay for usage of those planes. Heck, you did not even try to use the AA that is available to you in the game and you call it immediately useless. Maybe you've tried in the past once and it failed but one experience harly makes a case in game like this. "AA unit" does NOT mean "1 unit kills any plane nearby".

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote: I spend 1900mp for a SP and a single button can kill it even if i play it on a very safe way.

Maybe if there was some AA unit near it...but ofcourse I am wrong because I don't know anything. Sorry, so wrong of me to even suggest this...

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:Airbourne's similar power isnt even that good, if you good move your armor then you can avoid the bombs. Luft's are like chasing you until you die.

Henchels aim for viable targets in the target zone while USA ability drops bombs at the location where the target was. Henschels use standard targetting which means that you can make it harder for your tanks to get targetted...there is this thing that is "useless because I recommend to use it but I don't know shit because I don't play" that is called smoke. Smoke reduces the accuracy against target in it by 75%...if only Shermans could somehow get into smoke...oh wait!
And if there were other ways make your units harder to hit for less cost and without the need to activate smoke on each separately...if only there was something...like...I don't know...like a command M20 car car that can activate an ability that makes ALL vehicles around harder to hit by 75% no matter who shoots at it. But it is silly of my to even suggest it because even if such unit existed, who would use such silly unit with an ability that is as useless as this...

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:ONE power-10 tanks destroyed something like that..

If you use any of the options I mentioned (or combination of them) you get off with minimal losses while paying less than 200 ammo (which is the cost the opponent needs to pay for the Henschel strike). And since you say:

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:As far the ammo issues i dont think neither allies nor axis had any problem with ammo on this map.

I don't see a reason why you could not afford using any of the abilities I just mentioned.

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:And no the shot down count of planes wouldnt be way higher cause it never was and wont ever be.

This is what you say but stats and the actual replay you posted speaks against you - 50% shotdown rate without any need for investment from your side says clearly that AA works. I already said that M16 have same performance as those base AAs, even better when in static AA mode. On average Bofors guns perform about the same - they shoot less shots but with higher accuracy and higher damage so it makes up for that. Cruiser tank is good too. M15 might be a bit worse than M16 but is far fom useless.
Be honest now and tell me if knew that half of the planes got shot down in the game. I bet you only saw your losses but not the losses on ther side...I would love to see your rage-post if you had no base AA in the entire game, your losses would be way higher.

DolphinsAreGaySharks wrote:I dare you or anyone else to prove me wrong by showing me a replay that AA did an exceptional job.

Depends on what you call "expectional". If in your book it is 95% kill rate by one unit, then sorry, you will never see that in BK. But by my book 50% kill rate is an exeptional performance for a unit you have for free.

Warhawks97 wrote:I want to ask two things:
1. Can the M15A1 receive an AA mode. It woudlnt fire 360 degrees but at least shoot down something in the fire angel.
2. Can we remove the unit limit of this unit? Why got it even added? M15 Abuses? Having few more of them would allow at least a minimum of air protection

1) I am against it as M15 is not meant to be as good as M16, also was the unit even able of 360° rotation? AA without 360°, maybe.
2) I am not against it.

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