4.9.9 Patch Preview

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Warhawks97
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 09 Aug 2017, 13:08

Kr0noZ wrote:Well, adding new stuff isn't helping much at this point, there's so many units in the mod already that it's been difficult finding reasonable placements, let alone balance all of them againts each other.


Yes. Sometimes i think we already have too many with lots of them being not really used. I can remember there were times where it was worse. Many units got changed to a degree that they became usefull (eg M20 compared to old BK versions, M15A1, CW basic sherman, Stugs) due to cost adjustments or ability changes.



Reworks are large projects because they impact a lot more than just the doctrine being reworked; specifically, you have to keep in mind that the doctrines are meant to be played in combination


Yes. But thats in my opinion one problem. Axis (esspecially WH) are sort of selfish doctrines with little harmony because everybody does what he wants because he can. And often enough thats waiting, artying to get CP´s, going for tanks with big guns and thick armor.

So on the very long term i think we should at least talk about how to make WH docs more being played in harmony instead having them all as "late igniting jack of all trade docs". And more defined roles.

- messing with one means thinking about what it should bring to the table in small games as well as larger ones. A doctrine that does well on it's own in early but complete falls off in lategame is useless in larger games because the player now can't support his mates properly anymore; a doctrine that only starts rolling after 30 minutes but gets wrecked by anything in early is even worse because it leaves the team fighting alone vs superior numbers in early and in smaller games it's completely unusable because you just won't survive long enough.


I think that cant be repeated often enough. I tried to explain such things but people kept comparing docs 1 on 1 on often small maps not noticig that docs reach their potential at different times. And that some docs are not so good on their own but very good in support.

Because of that full reworks are currently talked about not not fixed on the agenda, and the current patch will not have any of that as it's almost done by now and has a massive changelog already.


You somewhere said that you might take a look at def doc. Even though there is nothing on the agenda it would be nice if you would someday share your ideas :)

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Kr0noZ
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Kr0noZ » 09 Aug 2017, 13:57

Well, that talk about def doc has been held already with Markr and he was less than convinced. Therefore, the ideas I had have been canned for the time being.
However, since I've been given an unexpected, if not very detailed, leg up by someone here claiming that def doc is the most confusing and ill-defined and close-to-unplayable doctine of all, I might have to redraft some ideas in order to adress those points and talk to Markr again - but that will take some time and A LOT of theory-crafting, so don't expect results anytime soon

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seha
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby seha » 09 Aug 2017, 15:10

idliketoplaybetter wrote:Wow, would be amazing, if people here realised that its all Free-to-Play and based on pure enthusiam of basicaly few people who share their work and hobby with others, not obligatory something like if it was EA or Ubisoft, so all this "lazy aka im not satisfied" is just out of understanding to me.

but there is always the option to hire more people or at least promote them.
there are talented people here who share the same hoppy and maybe higher devotion too.

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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 09 Aug 2017, 15:45

Kr0noZ wrote:Because of that full reworks are currently talked about not not fixed on the agenda, and the current patch will not have any of that as it's almost done by now and has a massive changelog already.

Hmm, so I can understand that it's apparently too late now to speak about any further adjustments for Armor doc or Terror doc at all.
Well... That's unfortunate!

The current Armor doc of the change-log isn't bad, but to be honest.. it could have been better. Anyway though; hopefully such ideas could be taken into account on the future patches...

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Shanks
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Shanks » 09 Aug 2017, 16:12

Would be disappointing for many, if the tree of doctrine of terror is not changed, as tiger said
"The one who advances is attacking and the one who defends is camper, but I do not see a problem in this. If you complain about someone who is camper, you can also be camper ... The team that makes less mistakes will win.Logical :lol: "

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Warhawks97
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 09 Aug 2017, 22:02

I like tigers last armor doc suggestions actually as whole.

I would also love to have a terror doc orientation. When people tell me they go terror it helps me as much as when they dont say anything. I am still unaware what will come and i cant adjust myself to it (like when i get PE.... shall i go SE for arty but then he also does, TH to support his inf against tanks or Luft to provide inf and air support to his Panthers).

When they say BK doc its also not so easy to adjust, but i know that SE is always going to be a good support at least.

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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 10 Aug 2017, 16:00

You can only have one squad of Royal Marine Commandos


: OO

Does it mean that the glider will come empty next time?

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Panzerblitz1
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Panzerblitz1 » 10 Aug 2017, 16:03

You can have only have 1 Royal Marine unit on field at the same time, 1 unit for a total of 2 units in game, when both of Royal Marines squads are killed, you'll get normal sten commandos from gliders.

--->EDIT: I made a little mistake, so you will have maximum one squad at a time but no maximum limit per game.
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby JimQwilleran » 10 Aug 2017, 16:05

Wow so they are like Super Pershing of inf. I totally didn't expect this kind of solution.

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MarKr
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 10 Aug 2017, 17:16

What we did with Marines in the end:
- If player has no Marines in the field, glider spawns Marines
- If player has Marines and calls in new glider, glider spawns Sten commandos
- Marines buildable in glider
- Marines limited to 1 squad at a time
So if you have Marines, destroy your glider and call it again to bypass the limit, you will not bypass anything and get Sten commandos instead. Also you will be able to dispatch Marine commandos from glider (for 475MP; if you lose your first unit) so that you don't have to destroy your glider just to get a new unit. Also glider cost will be increased to 550MP and cooldown of the glider increased to 120 seconds.
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Tiger1996
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 10 Aug 2017, 17:30

Makes more sense now... Good solution! :)

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sgtToni95
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby sgtToni95 » 10 Aug 2017, 20:16

Yeah nice :)

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Warhawks97
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 10 Aug 2017, 22:44

Best solution. Awesome. Very nice.

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Warhawks97
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 10 Aug 2017, 23:23

MarKr wrote:WM:

- Defensive training provide weaker (approximately half) bonuses to Volksgrenadiers than to combat infantry (Grenadiers, MG/Mortar teams etc.)


What about the bonus applies only in friendly and neutral territory? Or only when not running arround?
We might get a better orientation of that doctrine towards defensive duties that way.

On fully craterd maps you can currently move arround quite free without being suppressed or anything at all. Even weapon crews can run up and deploy under fire easily.

So instead halfing the boosts for volks and pios i would rather add some requirments in general like not moving+cover or friendly territory only.

speeddemon02
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby speeddemon02 » 11 Aug 2017, 02:39

Could that mechanic work for the US inf ranger truck?

mofetagalactica
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby mofetagalactica » 14 Aug 2017, 18:16

¿ Why is the Sherman cocodrile still not being able to use his 75mm ? It dosnt have 2 cannons just for fun you know lol.

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Shanks
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Shanks » 15 Aug 2017, 14:04

When the 4.9.9 comes out? I want to play it !!!!! :lol:
"The one who advances is attacking and the one who defends is camper, but I do not see a problem in this. If you complain about someone who is camper, you can also be camper ... The team that makes less mistakes will win.Logical :lol: "

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jonnyyankee
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby jonnyyankee » 15 Aug 2017, 20:16

All its okay but when going to improve the AI?? to make diferent units?? US need to make AT squads or Paks also and abilities , i know that BK mod its only for MP players but its cool practice sometimes against cpu with noob friends because this updates are cool but we need a good cpu's to have fun :D i think.. its a advice also for the steam players :D thanks greetings

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ExE
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby ExE » 16 Aug 2017, 06:18

About the LMG42 upgrade;

Don't you think it should be applied to PE aswell?

Because a lot of things will be put on a "standardized" way; Sherman's unified speed, Smoke scatter, K98 of Assault Grens equal to WM Grens...

Also, there's this point from Warhawks97; about unified Flak 36 damage.
To underline the damage concerns (all damage values modified x5 against tanks):
Tiger kwk36: 110-140
Flak 36: 150-200
Pak 43: 135-165 (same damage as Jagdpanther, KT, elephant, Nashorn and all who use the weapon)
pak 44 128 mm Jagdtiger gun: 180-220

I dont necessarily want the flak 36 going simply down to tiger damage. I wouldnt mind if the tiger gun damage would be upped to 120-150. But since so far all guns of the same type i can think off in bk have now got standardized damage (remember stug and hetzer having less damage than Tank IV H/J in previous patches?) in recent patches, the flak 36 and tiger shouldnt be so different damage wise. And as if this is not enough, the flak 88 is performing more like the 128 mm JT gun rather than 88 and bypassing any 88 l/71 by far. And thats just dump in my opinion.

So if you want to have tigers with higher damage (i really wouldnt mind, actually support it) fine, but bring the flak 36 in line and dont let it bypass the pak 43.


Just a thought.
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Warhawks97
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Aug 2017, 11:17

ExE wrote:About the LMG42 upgrade;
Don't you think it should be applied to PE aswell?
Just a thought.


Agreed.

Edit: What was the reason for that step? But i agree that the cost should be the same for both factions.

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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Mr. FeministDonut » 16 Aug 2017, 12:14

Warhawks97 wrote:
ExE wrote:About the LMG42 upgrade;
Don't you think it should be applied to PE aswell?
Just a thought.


Agreed.

Edit: What was the reason for that step? But i agree that the cost should be the same for both factions.

SS squad is only restricted by mg42 high cost, why it should be lower?

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Warhawks97
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Warhawks97 » 16 Aug 2017, 14:28

Its not just the ss squad. Also the Elite Assault grenadiers. I just dont get a proper reason why WH is going to play less for an MG42.

If it is that the weapon is not cost effective then this applied to WH as well as PE. If it is a balance concern this wont change much. WH is already more spammable than PE inf and has also lots of infantry killing battle tanks unlike PE has it. And their inf is already quite effective either by upgrades that boost or upgrades that give stuff like stgs for free.

The actual WH "problem" is rather the doctrinal set ups and composition rather than underperforming infantry weapons.

Either way there is no need that PE has to pay more for it than WH or, in extrem argumentation, no kind of "restoring balance" by dropping the cost out of nothing will be achieved or any balance issue addressed.

And yes, SS can get like 3 of them, but why not? Shall this be the reason that PE has to pay more? If you want you could argue that only heavy assault grens get a cost drop for this weapon. If the cost drop is "just because" then i wouldnt see a prob if PE ss squad can get 3 of them for each 85 ammo as well. It wouldnt hurt the balance, no matter if it cost 85 for 100 ammo.

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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Redgaarden » 16 Aug 2017, 15:09

I dont think the lmg should get the price reduced on PE units. That thing is a real killer. There is a reason it costs 100 muni. We should first see how it performs on the grens, then we could see if it also necessary for them to get a price reduction too.
Then again that thing is way too expensive, kinda the same principally as king tiger.
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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby Tiger1996 » 16 Aug 2017, 15:33

Agreed with ExE pretty much. I even pointed this out before...
Tiger1996 wrote:On a different note, is the speed of the M36 B1 really still at 4.8 and not lowered to 4.3 as intended on 4.9.6 patch?

And I can see that PE Grens were just given same Kar98 stats as WH Grens, but WH Grens were also given cheaper LMG42. So are the PE Grens going to have cheaper LMG42 upgrade as well? Shouldn't the LMG42 upgrade price be equal for all squads? Also the SS squad by the HauptOfficer in PE can upgrade LMG42 btw. Or is it intended to be an exclusive price reduction for this upgrade particularly for the WH Grens only?

So I support the price reduction.. and the SS squad can only have 2 LMG42s btw, not three.
The reason I support price reduction on LMG42 is mainly because 2 Bren LMGs are often more deadly, yet 2 Brens only cost 110 ammo.
While just a single LMG42 costs 100 ammo, which is an exaggeration in my opinion.

And when I checked the game files, I found out that the M36 B1 still has a speed of 4.8 and not 4.3 as intended few patches ago.
Might be wrong though...

I also agree that flak 88s damage should be decreased from 200-150 to 150-120 while also increasing the damage of the Tiger1 kwk 88mm from 110-140 to be the same value as flak 88s, which is 150-120 as well.

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Re: 4.9.9 Patch Preview

Postby MarKr » 16 Aug 2017, 15:52

LMG42 price will be dropped only for WM, M36B1 speed is 4.3 so you are wrong and Tiger/flak36 damage stays.

Changelog is closed now, no more additions for this patch.
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