Firefly & Achilles

Talk about CoH1 or BKMOD1 in general.
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Tiger1996
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Firefly & Achilles

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Aug 2017, 17:30

The reason I am not posting this on "balancing and suggestions" section is because I am not bringing this up to discuss balance, but rather to unleash some inquiries.

Let's have a look at the 3 CW docs:

RA doc:
RA.jpg
Firefly requires 4 CP.


RE doc:
RE.jpg
Firefly also requires 4 CP.


RAF doc:
RAF.jpg
Firefly requires only 2 CP.



Anyone could quickly notice that both RA and RE doctrines are only able to bring the Firefly after 4 command points, but RAF is able to have the Firefly after only 2 command points! Which I find questionable.. isn't 2 CP a little bit too early for such a powerful tank? We all know that the Firefly is capable of knocking out all kind of Panthers, sometimes even in one-shot and from greater distance aside of the high rate of fire. Not to mention that all Panthers are only available much later...

- Panther.D requires 5 CP, same as Pershing and Terror doc Tiger.
- Panther.A requires 6 CP, same as Comet.
- Panther.G requires 7 CP, same as 76 Jumbo of Armor doc.

Note:
- Blitz doc Tiger requires 4 CP, same as Jacksons.

So, I think RAF shouldn't be able to bring Firefly so early.. but only after 4 CP just like RE and RA docs.


Also regarding the Achilles tho, isn't this tank actually a little bit over-performing for its relatively cheap price and early availability?
I mean; hit and run tactics ability with a range of 80 from ambush position + flank speed + great gun + available for only 2 CP in all CW docs + HE rounds + hull down ability with RE doc while in ambush position both at the same time :?:
So basically, CW has a tank which is 10 times better than the Jackson for only 2 CP in all docs + 17pdr AT gun emplacements in 2 docs. Hmm...

kwok
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby kwok » 07 Aug 2017, 18:09

LOLOLOL

Tiger1996 wrote:The reason I am not posting this on "balancing and suggestions" section is because I am not bringing this up to discuss balance, but rather to unleash some inquiries.

Which I find questionable.. isn't 2 CP a little bit too early for such a powerful tank?

So, I think RAF shouldn't be able to bring Firefly so early.. but only after 4 CP just like RE and RA docs.

Also regarding the Achilles tho, isn't this tank actually a little bit over-performing for its relatively cheap price and early availability?


All of your "questions" are thinly veiled value statements....

I think the answer to all your "questions" is
Markr wrote: Not everything is meant to be the same.


As much as I might possibly have an agreeing opinion on this thread, I do not want to participate in a balancing thread started like this. Just because it's not in the balancing thread section of the forum and all your claims have a question mark after it, doesn't make them without balancing intent. If you really had questions, you can post them into the "Ask an Expert" thread.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Aug 2017, 18:33

As much as I might possibly have an agreeing opinion on this thread, I do not want to participate in a balancing thread started like this. Just because it's not in the balancing thread section of the forum and all your claims have a question mark after it, doesn't make them without balancing intent. If you really had questions, you can post them into the "Ask an Expert" thread.

Oops, I think you just participated in this! And btw, I would better define who is exactly "Expert" before I manage to ask any.

Either add something useful or keep ur mouth shut, really... "LOLOLOL" doesn't sound like a good way to start a constructive post.

And "not everything is meant to be the same" can't be a standard response to every single suggestion down here as I once stated before:
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2173#p20915
Tiger1996 wrote:Ok, so I will try to be more constructive here.. and less demanding. As I never said everything should be the same, neither did I say that the statement itself is false... I never asked that WH for example should have airplanes. This would be bullshit, because every WH doctrine has heavy tanks. Therefore no airplanes! So I totally understand what you say here. However, my whole point is; this statement can't be a standard response to every single suggestion down here. You are using it too often!

Not to mention that the statement itself is in fact irrelevant to this discussion anyway.

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idliketoplaybetter
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby idliketoplaybetter » 07 Aug 2017, 21:10

First i only decided that replay section got screwed and used for anything, but what it is meant to be, but it's spreading all over the place.
"You can argue only with like-minded people"

Danikas
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby Danikas » 07 Aug 2017, 21:20

Agreed with Tiger, I leave it at that.

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mofetagalactica
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby mofetagalactica » 07 Aug 2017, 21:34

Agreed with tiger it should be 4 cp to unlock firefly in raf, price and performance of achiles is fine thought.

kwok
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby kwok » 07 Aug 2017, 21:56

But you guys didn't answer his "question". How can you agree with a question?

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Tiger1996
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Aug 2017, 22:05

kwok wrote:But you guys didn't answer his "question". How can you agree with a question?

If you keep trolling, I can gladly report that.

They agree that Firefly should require 4 CP in RAF doc, which is obviously not a question...

Do you have any valuable points to add to this discussion? Or you will just keep trying to derail the topic?!

kwok
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby kwok » 07 Aug 2017, 22:11

Please do.

By the way
Tiger1996 wrote:And btw, I would better define who is exactly "Expert" before I manage to ask any.


I dunno is... "thousands of games across factions" enough expert for you?

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Redgaarden
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby Redgaarden » 09 Aug 2017, 17:41

I think RA doctrine shouldn't have to pay 4 cp for a Firefly. RA is a slow buildup doctrine that requires alot of mircotransactions that will only slow you down.

But if you did it like in RAF doc where you dont need achilles to get firefly. Then you would have Ahcilles->95mm cromwell and firefly for itselft which doesn't look so bad in my head.

But then again firefly would just become another microtransaction which I hate about the doc. But atleast I'm not forced to use 4 but only 2 cp to get the tank I want.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!

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Warhawks97
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Re: Firefly & Achilles

Postby Warhawks97 » 09 Aug 2017, 21:54

Well. RA reminds me of def doc. You need to unlcok TD´s in order to get an arty unit (like in def doc)

For RA i would make Achilles->Firefly and 95 mm cromwell independent. Maybe player with RA doc would start using it. Btw, this unit would fit for RE as well but ok.
Not sure red, did you refer to RA or RE. RA builds up slowly but gets lots of arty. So the need for getting offensive units like firefly is rather low or?

For RE it would indeed make sense having M10 alone and Firely as first unlock towards comet. But idk if it would enable allis to overrun any axis defense within the first 10 mins (early churchill and early Firefly) leaving no chance to them unless they choose TH doc.

About RAF i also cant say. They dont have 17 pdr pits so firefly seems appriopriate to help not getting overruned by aggressive vehicles and medium tanks.

Actually, the only thing i can really find is that arty cromwell might be independent. Too few use this unit with RA doc i think. 4 CP is almost that of a priest.... so....


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