4.9.9 Patch Preview

[Krieger Blitzer]

I do not think it's good to make some shermans faster, it's a bad idea, it would be crazy indeed, but because they talk so much about Comet and SP, and they say, allied tanks are better overall .... WTF ... . It seems like they are EJE fan fanatics! Stop joking or joking @ tiger, the AXIS tanks are better, a good example would be TH, or did you never see it in action ?
Try flanking the narshon, for example, with the comet, little friend, and you can do the comparison in price also, if you want. Or maybe you want to win the game with a click? Everything has its advantage and disadvantage

It's interesting how we both agree at one thing but also disagree on another thing at the same time...
I said that Axis tanks are better, but only in extreme 1v1 scenarios.. however; Allied tanks are more cost effective.

[MarKr]

After this said, would you devs mind answering those few points/questions i brought up in my previous post in this topic (expecially that on 37mm AT gun)?

To your questions:
@ 37mm vs Dingo and Bren: For Dingo there is still about 35% chance to get "main gun destroyed" critical instead of being destroyed outright, Brens will die to the shot every time. This change is there to encourage more careful approach with these vehicles and to, at least partially, even out the fact that the BOYS rifle poses bigger threat to early axis vehicles too.

@ demo plant time: It is simply value randomly picked between 19 and 25 by the engine. If RNG gods are with you, you'll plant faster, if you managed to anger them, your planting will take longer.

@ small PaKs vs mobile HQs: Teleporting is also about fairness and you can find assholes who abuse it. Anyway, for players who don't abuse this, the change should have around 0 impact. For those who abuse it, it will make their lives miserable.

@ PIVJ cost (techincally not a question but still) : sofar (iirc) the only gameplay reason against this was by Warhawks who said that then there will be no reason to ever build StuGs which I disagree with because StuGs have abilities that can make them prefferable in certain situations (especially StuG III). The rest was just "it is weird that this unit would be this cheap". If you have more gameplay-related reasons why the cost is wrong this way, feel free to give them to me

@ Stuka raid vs Triage centers: We do not approve war crimes, so no

[Commissar]

Removing light arty from Air docs is a very poor desicion, only will foster camping (the biggest killer of BK fun). RAF doc again can be blocked by a very simple defence (Puma + pak 38 + sniper). This changes dont improve the gameplay, also Rocket Jeep in inf doc looks plain stupid, who would use it's crappy barrage when you have normal arty there?

Please note what Max said, he is not a last player in blitzkrieg mod and still wants bk going good.

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

After this said, would you devs mind answering those few points/questions i brought up in my previous post in this topic (expecially that on 37mm AT gun)?

To your questions:
@ 37mm vs Dingo and Bren: For Dingo there is still about 35% chance to get "main gun destroyed" critical instead of being destroyed outright, Brens will die to the shot every time. This change is there to encourage more careful approach with these vehicles and to, at least partially, even out the fact that the BOYS rifle poses bigger threat to early axis vehicles too.

@ demo plant time: It is simply value randomly picked between 19 and 25 by the engine. If RNG gods are with you, you'll plant faster, if you managed to anger them, your planting will take longer.

@ small PaKs vs mobile HQs: Teleporting is also about fairness and you can find assholes who abuse it. Anyway, for players who don't abuse this, the change should have around 0 impact. For those who abuse it, it will make their lives miserable.

@ PIVJ cost (techincally not a question but still) : sofar (iirc) the only gameplay reason against this was by Warhawks who said that then there will be no reason to ever build StuGs which I disagree with because StuGs have abilities that can make them prefferable in certain situations (especially StuG III). The rest was just "it is weird that this unit would be this cheap". If you have more gameplay-related reasons why the cost is wrong this way, feel free to give them to me

@ Stuka raid vs Triage centers: We do not approve war crimes, so no

Well AT the moment, stuka aim for triage center's.

[Warhawks97]

To your questions:
@ 37mm vs Dingo and Bren: For Dingo there is still about 35% chance to get "main gun destroyed" critical instead of being destroyed outright, Brens will die to the shot every time. This change is there to encourage more careful approach with these vehicles and to, at least partially, even out the fact that the BOYS rifle poses bigger threat to early axis vehicles too.

hmm. Wouldnt a middle way suit better? Boys AT good to prevent rushes but not an absoulte vehicle denial unit. And in return some changes to suvive 37 mm? Coz this looks very like PE and CW will find themselves quickly in a very campy situation. Nobody dares to do something and cover behind their powerfull AT units (Boys vehicle denial, AT gun that kills vehicles as well as inf quickly).

What about speeds and acclerations? Will we face speedy shermans with poor accleration in future and Panthers still making their way back into save harbour?

@ PIVJ cost (techincally not a question but still) : sofar (iirc) the only gameplay reason against this was by Warhawks who said that then there will be no reason to ever build StuGs which I disagree with because StuGs have abilities that can make them prefferable in certain situations (especially StuG III). The rest was just "it is weird that this unit would be this cheap". If you have more gameplay-related reasons why the cost is wrong this way, feel free to give them to me

And the fact that there is a unit against which the best US gun has a chance 60% to penetrate it. Mounted on tanks even less than 50. So fighting off inf and ab would not require more than Tank IV´s, Ostwind and a recon technically.

This is what i am afraid of making it soo extremely cheap.

The stug thing is just another thing.

@ Stuka raid vs Triage centers: We do not approve war crimes, so no

Good, i was already about to call the court



@Toni: I didnt play, yes... but i wasnt away. Watched replays and streams though.

Also regarding armor i wouldnt say its just gamestyle. Its more that this doc is so strongly focused on SP as being the only "thing" this doc has what other allied docs cant provide. In all other regards, anti inf or anti armor there is little need to go armor doc. All docs have shermans or AA tanks.
Slightly more expensive but in return losing less as they dont use them for the offense in first place.
Inf has even jumbos.

I think i just wanted armor doc having a "special face" like other docs have it. And a lot more open for suprises with more options. Sure... that SP removal or ace removal wasnt well thought maybe or just very bold. Nontheless there can be "more ways" or more options to play this doc containing more surprises for the opponent.

I hope the new changes will allow that (eg ammo, war machine or stuart that can suddenly call arty)

[sgtToni95]

I still have reserves on 37mm oneshotting, since allies AT only oneshots vehicles that cost no fuel and way less than 320/340 MP, while for scout cars (300/320MP + 10/15 Fuel) it's quite hard to oneshot them using a 37mm, and impossible for boys, and they're used quite similarly, even if scout cars can't carry squads. But i already said this so i won't insist any further before seing this in game.

Thanks for all other answers

P.S. you've been allowing stuka patrol to target triage center so far, so not only you allow war crimes, but you're partner in crime by developing this with your hands!!! I think this might slow down greenlight process hahah

[Shanks]

I do not think it's good to make some shermans faster, it's a bad idea, it would be crazy indeed, but because they talk so much about Comet and SP, and they say, allied tanks are better overall .... WTF ... . It seems like they are EJE fan fanatics! Stop joking or joking @ tiger, the AXIS tanks are better, a good example would be TH, or did you never see it in action ?
Try flanking the narshon, for example, with the comet, little friend, and you can do the comparison in price also, if you want. Or maybe you want to win the game with a click? Everything has its advantage and disadvantage

It's interesting how we both agree at one thing but also disagree on another thing at the same time...
I said that Axis tanks are better, but only in extreme 1v1 scenarios.. however; Allied tanks are more cost effective.

More cost effective: easier to finish ----- more expensive: harder to finish, besides Axis, has many effective AT, so dont worry so much about armored allies. I say, it has its advantage and disadvantage. For example, when I use DEF doc, I finish with 80% or maybe 95% of the allied tanks (L 70 and not so expensive), whether from the USA or British, so I think the price of the allies tanks are good, if You raise it more, the allies will have a great disadvantage, besides the doctrines other than DEF are not left behind, they have good arty, good inf, good tanks, and I do not say that they are 1v1 cases only

Look Tiger:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgyZxQf3Ih4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hppsvlz8GX0

Hahahahaha

[Medic Truck]

@Shanks,

those videos. Especially the Armor one. LOLOLOL

[Shanks]

Yy,thanks to Leonida 525 lololol

[Krieger Blitzer]

@Shanks
Yes, everything has cons and pros... Or better say advantages and disadvantages.. but what I meant is that Axis tanks are not ultimately better as MarKr claimed. Maybe except at extreme 1v1 scenarios with 1 tank individually against another, but this extreme 1v1 scenario often doesn't happen. Therefore I believe that most Axis tanks actually don't deserve their current price, in other words.. they are overpriced. The cost of the KT for example, is heavily exaggerated. Not because the KT itself is bad or weak, but because the price and the availability time of this tank almost make it an "outsider" that is not really worth obtaining in most PvP games. SP on the other hand comes earlier and in fact way cheaper if u would carefully compare their price, and as a result.. it has much better potential, as it would have the opportunity or the chance to at least do something. I mean that by the time when SP arrives to the battlefield, it could be still very dangerous. But the KT comes too late usually... So it has very low combat value, being less dangerous and almost just a waste of resources. And yes, I already know about Leonida525 videos. We actually collaborate together Though, you should probably know that these "ignorant reviews" are not addressing matters in a serious way but only in a sarcastic way, I suggest you to read the description of the "Terror doc ignorant review" video. And I could also provide more examples in details concerning this matter btw, but it's not really our subject here.. so let's just move on for now.
=================================================

Now, back to our main subject here.. vehicle speeds.

What about speeds and acclerations? Will we face speedy shermans with poor accleration in future and Panthers still making their way back into save harbour?

I would like to raise the same questions once again...

On the previous pages, we did agree on this:

m4s to 4.2 unified, e8 4.6, jumbo 3.5 and calli 3.8..... tune accleration.

Besides that 105 Sherman would be 3.8 like the Calliope. And "M4s to 4.2 unified" include all other Shermans; HE Sherman as well as the Croc Sherman and the 76W Sherman.

We also did agree that OstWind could have less speed and better acceleration.

Also, if the M36 B1 Jackson still has a speed of 4.8 then it should be reduced to 4.3 as intended in the 4.9.6 patch.

And I guess we did also agree to reduce the speed of Panther.D to 4.2 and Panther.A to 4.4 but keeping the speed of Panther.G at 4.6 as it is... Since it requires a lot of command points, even more than Jackson and Pershing.. and is also most expensive. But I honestly don't think it's a good idea to lower the acceleration of Panthers from currently 2.5 to 2.0 because they should always keep the acceleration advantage compared to Tigers.
Though, I think I still gotta have to react to 1 particular statement by MarKr: (apparently i missed this statement before)

In reality Panther would never be able to reverse and outrun shermans who drive towards it - according to my information Panther's reverse speed was whooping 3.5 km/h. But in the game it reverses at full 46 km/h but obviously you have no problem with this from historical point of view and the fact that you can just keep reversing, outrun shermans, keep facing your frontal armor towards them so they keep bouncing off and pick them off one by one from distance...that is totally OK

Even though that the historical accuracy was never my main argument as I clarified already, I would still like to point at the fact that not only the Panthers had very low reverse speed, but even tanks like M10 Wolverine with a max forward speed of 50 km. Yet, the M10 still had only a reverse speed of 10 km by the way. So, if Panthers in the game can reverse faster than they are supposed to be.. yet, you should not forget that this also applies to all other tanks in the game.
So yes! It's totally fine to see Panthers reversing quickly as long as all other tanks can do the same, keeping in mind the high price of Panther tanks in the game compared to the reality as well.. just saying.

[Warhawks97]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HgyZxQf3Ih4
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Hppsvlz8GX0

Hahahahaha

Most true thing ive seen in a long time.

"Ask your shitty mates for infantry and armor support"
"It resists efficiently all german weapons... except: Panzerschreck, Panzerfaust, AT Grenade, Wurfrahmen rocket barrage, ambushed Jagdpanzer IV/70, Pak 43, Pantherturm, flak 88, Elephant TD, Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger, Königstiger, Tiger Wolfrahm rounds, Nashorn, Stielgrenade..."
They forgot the 210 mm nebelwerfer Hotchkiss and Hummel


"This doctrine helps you make friends. Ask your mates for fucking arty, ask your mates for fucking infantry"

Absolutely true.
Why this video didnt occure earlier? I could have spared half of my time in this forum. Damn it.



"Early cheap medium tanks. Good against infantry and medium tanks."


That is 50% true.



Back on topic:
Axis Tanks are not cost ineffective. Non of them actually. Thing with KT "cost in-efficiency" is that people go either straight for it and "skipping" mid game thinking this thing wins the game alone. Or The doc offers sooooo many other and better ways and even more cost effective and easier ways to win that the skilled guys dont go for it.

Who said that Tiger must stay at 2 acceleration. When Panther keeps such a huge acceleration adavantge over his pursuers the Panther will outrun them even when those have a speed of 5 and panther of 4.

Except again the map is so huge that at the point shermans and Panther meet each no other unit in an area of several kilometers will be arround. Essentially non with schreck or any AT gun. But only most dump players will seperate their Panthers from friendly units by purpose.

[Krieger Blitzer]

As for Armor doc, yes.. it lacks some tools... Not severely though. As I think playing TH doc is way more boring. But now some changes are coming for Armor doc. So let's see!

Thing with KT is it does have no combat value in Terror doc, like u said.. since there are other many better and cheaper tools, so yes.

I am afraid lowering acceleration would only result in Tigers and Panthers being even easier targets to fast Allied airstrikes though.

[speeddemon02]

@ Stuka raid vs Triage centers: We do not approve war crimes, so no

Lol, where do i report the AI for their crimes of targeting anything with the Red Cross over other units.

[Liferacer]

What?? No way, the airstrike abilities are not effective. Please add Nebelwerfer 150mm Lufwaffe doctrine, otherwise the doctrine is useless.

(I hope that was a troll post)

Unfortunatly not, because the airstrike abilties are really really bad. We are playing 2 (human) vs 4 (computer) and the Nebelwerfer are necessary at the Luftwaffe doctrine.

[MarKr]

Ehm...so you have killer infantry that comes with best weapons without the need to upgrade them, you have defensive emplacements, you have heavy tank (which is better than most people claim), you have one plane that can reveal map, second plane that can spray ground with bullets and kill infantry (also tanks if you are lucky), you have an air raid that can destroy defensive lines, and another one that can turn large portion of opponent's armored units into smoking pile of rust, you can fire barrages from your 88s via VT ability...and you still tell me that Nebels are vital for this doctrine? Tell me who else has all this?

[Panzerblitz1]

[kwok]

What?? No way, the airstrike abilities are not effective. Please add Nebelwerfer 150mm Lufwaffe doctrine, otherwise the doctrine is useless.

(I hope that was a troll post)

Unfortunatly not, because the airstrike abilties are really really bad. We are playing 2 (human) vs 4 (computer) and the Nebelwerfer are necessary at the Luftwaffe doctrine.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=2121

Please witness the destruction of some of the best allied PvP players using the current luft abilities. Ironically, other doctrines like armor and RAF are in the game.
As a side taunt, we were on voice chat and I kept teasing the RAF player "hey do you remember how to do anything except use the arty cromwell anymore?" It's a unit that has been a crutch and diminished the essence of RAF imo (since we are on the topic of changes). I'm glad it was removed along with the luft nebels.

[Liferacer]

you have an air raid that can destroy defensive lines, and another one that can turn large portion of opponent's armored units into smoking pile of rust

What? When do you played the last time against the KI? These air attacks of PE are not effective.

Not everybody plays pvp.

[kwok]

you have an air raid that can destroy defensive lines, and another one that can turn large portion of opponent's armored units into smoking pile of rust

What? When do you played the last time against the KI? These air attacks of PE are not effective.

Not everybody plays pvp.

I mean... I play PvP in a PvP mod and I used it pretty recently as shown in the replay if you could bother to watch it. Funnily, I used them to turn over a spam of AA crusaders. If that's any indicator on how good the planes are...

I like how 80% posts are pretty much ignored and unaddressed.

[speeddemon02]

Have you tried to use the infantry field gun that giebers drop?

[kwok]

Me personally? No I find luft are perfectly capable in handling all infantry. Field gun just takes vet from them.

[speeddemon02]

Sorry, that was towards Liferacer. He wants to keep nebel in and wanted to give an alternative indirect fire unit that may fill the role.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I am honestly still very concerned regarding the Sherman speed changes.. for me, I consider the current speed changes represented on the change-log to be somewhat game breaking. And decreasing too much the speed of any tanks in the future, specifically the expensive ones, could be even more game breaking... As I would even suggest not to touch the current speed for any tanks at all actually. Though, if tweaking the speed for any tanks would ever have to happen anytime; then it has to be done very slightly and very carefully! And I can only say that those current speed changes on the change-log are rather careless in my humble opinion.

[Kr0noZ]

you have an air raid that can destroy defensive lines, and another one that can turn large portion of opponent's armored units into smoking pile of rust

What? When do you played the last time against the KI? These air attacks of PE are not effective.

That's due to the AI always knowing where an offmap ability is used and dodging it. People can't do that but the AI still "sees" the target marker and moves away from it.
However, we balance the mod for PVP and in PVP the nebelwerfer isn't needed (some people might find stronger words for it xD ), therefore it gets removed.

[Liferacer]

Have you tried to use the infantry field gun that giebers drop?

Yeah sure, but it is not so effective against am mass of enemies. We are playing 2vs4

That's due to the AI always knowing where an offmap ability is used and dodging it. People can't do that but the AI still "sees" the target marker and moves away from it.
However, we balance the mod for PVP and in PVP the nebelwerfer isn't needed (some people might find stronger words for it xD ), therefore it gets removed.

Okay, so the patch is useless for all people, who are playing against the AI - correct?