CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

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Lionelus
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CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Lionelus » 17 Apr 2017, 11:47

Hello BK community

As you may know, i'm Lionelus and I'm a CW player. I love RAF and Royal Engineers. I find these doc very strong and efficient on the battlefield.

Yet, i'm still struggling with Royal artillery. I'm not an arty/defensive player. I think I just don't know how to perform with this doctrine, or maybe it's not my style of game (I hate WWI style camping pvp games)

- in 1v1, I get wrecked hard
- in larger games, I end up being totally useless for my team mates.

I'm writing here to get some advice for this doctrine : build order, strategies, what unit to use etc.

Best,

L.

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sgtToni95
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby sgtToni95 » 18 Apr 2017, 19:39

Hello Lionelus, I think you should ask Salvy13 #artyspammer from my [525] mates if you ever find him in game: he only plays brit and only that doctrine. And when i say only i mean only. Unfortunately he does not partecipate the forum, so he won't come help you here, but i showed him a screenshot and he said if you're not a defensive player RA is just not for you. His exact words are: "RA is not a doc, it's a lifestyle. You must feel the arty, you must live the arty, otherwise you can't understand nor appreciate it."

What i told you is all true, tho it's probably not what you're looking for, i just wanted to give you a laugh :)

I'm more an offensive player as well, so i very rarelly play arty doctrine, but i can tell you what i think are the main upsides and downsides as far as i know by playing quite often teamed up with Salvy13.

Downsides:
-due to the lack of specialized assaulting units, infantry and tanks, the micro-related playstyle is pretty much as if you were playing without picking a doctrine.
-your howies might be considered good to take down defences but they're not so accurate, and if your enemy starts building bunkers or ambushing tds your 25 pdrs damage output will just get yo frustrated. (Hopefully will be better now that VT ability will be fixed)
-(this one's not very onbjective, a bit "ranty") if your opponent finds out you're arty, he'll probably pick SE or DEF doctrine. In that case his superiority in artillery vehicles ("onehitkill"grille, wespes, hummels) will probably "outbomb" your howies (toghether with everything else), letting you down to "just " your priests. And while your arty based doc has only arty more than basic brits, def doc has bunkers, pantherturms, huge infantry buffs and good tanks, and SE has 210mm nebels, flame nades, traps and tds that provide you some offensive variety in infantry or tanks as well.

Upsides:
-howitzers salvos are cheaper than any other in the game, allowing you to keep bombing pretty much non stop and you just have to hit the right target at the right moment.
-supercharge unlock increase even your heavy mortar and mortar pits range, providing you great passive defence against infantry and vehicles.
-your three artillery scouts have great abilities to coordinate arty and increase its accuracy, aimed salvos are amazing to immobilize and destroy even the biggest tanks.
- off-map barrages can help you vet your officers (which will improve significantly your infantry performances) and open a breach in enemy lines for your infantry or get rid of unexpected mgs/paks.
- priests have that good damage output that howitzers lack a bit, and they're very deadly even against vehicles, so you can try to use them to counter enemy arty vehicles.
-staghound is a great infantry and light vehicles hunter, has a great mobility and many mgs, and 75mm autocar is an early very effective arty unit which, with new HE system, i've seen killing almost entire infantry squads with a single shell, early fallshirms included.
-basic brits' units are overall quite decent, expecially achilles tank hunters and crusader tanks to stop infantry, well equipped tommies with LT too, so even without much variety you still have effective counters to everything.

Considered all theese aspects it's not a doctrine you can play on its own, but when you can coordinate properly with your mates it's literally an amazing support doctrine. I think the easiest playstyle would be setting up a decent defensive line, supported by mortars and use your artillery and scouts to counter every kind of indirect fire your enemy can use against your defences. Constantly ask your mates if they need a bombing somewhere is really foundamental, since you might give them a very quick and effective way to prepare their attack and saving them some resources which they can invest somewhere else.

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Warhawks97
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Warhawks97 » 18 Apr 2017, 21:05

Rely on teammates which have to make constant pushes. You kill what they cant.


Your heavy mortar with super charge will provide just the range the SE one has as default if i am not mistaken.


I played that doc with my first clan very often. The off map unlock for officer and spotter can be a real game winner in the early. Its decent support in the decisive stage from early to mid. We used to combine that with vehicles. Killing a cruical 50 mm pak can ruin an axis players game.

Also get the 75 mm HT. Its great mobile mid game arty and good in killing soft targets as well. I never used 25 pounder howitzers really.


Later Priest is a must have just as the support with spotters. Veted SPGs are game winners. If you dont have any and axis vet hummel you have likely lost the game. So if game is lasting longer get an early vet priest. But dont just sit there and do nothing than going instant for it. Keep CP´s back untill you either get in a good moment for lieutnant off map and a quick win or when a long game becomes apparent you just go for priest.

AA tank and 17 pdr back up are also vital for the team. If combined well with armor and inf (or AB) you simply provide what they cant.... Arty and 17 pdr´s. Armor player can focus on anti medium tank and anti inf gameplay (thus no need for wasting res for Pershing). Inf just filling lines, some additional arty and defenses. Kind of a backbone and line filler.

Thats how we did it often. And two priests veted are just as good as like 20 unveted howitzers. The Cost ratio with vet priest is almost incredible.... But dont shoot at pointless targets if you priest as vet already. In case enemie has arty as well your vet priest will counter enemie arty mostly.

speeddemon02
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby speeddemon02 » 19 Apr 2017, 03:58

The other advantage RA has is that they can build the arty right away compared to Inf/Def/SE that have to use CP to unlock them

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Lionelus
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Lionelus » 19 Apr 2017, 09:45

Thx for the advice

i did a 1v1 yesterday, versus a mid player. I lost

I need more practice with RA, to feel the arty, as you said sgtToni haha

For the moment, I just feel RA is a bit predictable and lacks some tools. I mean, it seems you don't have many way to play it.
75mm HT and then rush to Priest, most of the time, correct ?

the 4.2 inch mortar Command Point unlock (2) is annoying. And the 6 pdr AT gun not being available in trucks is very annoying too.

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sgtToni95
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby sgtToni95 » 19 Apr 2017, 11:34

Lionelus wrote:the 4.2 inch mortar Command Point unlock (2) is annoying. And the 6 pdr AT gun not being available in trucks is very annoying too.


I think the most annoying thing about the command tree is the 2 points sector smoke screen ability unlock.. it's already been changed but, as far as i know, it remains the last unlock every player does.
I was the one to start the rebalancing topic for that ability, because as it used to be, it was more useful to your enemy :) but nobody used that so that was not a danger.

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Warhawks97
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Warhawks97 » 19 Apr 2017, 16:53

Lionelus wrote:Thx for the advice

i did a 1v1 yesterday, versus a mid player. I lost

I need more practice with RA, to feel the arty, as you said sgtToni haha

For the moment, I just feel RA is a bit predictable and lacks some tools. I mean, it seems you don't have many way to play it.
75mm HT and then rush to Priest, most of the time, correct ?

the 4.2 inch mortar Command Point unlock (2) is annoying. And the 6 pdr AT gun not being available in trucks is very annoying too.



Well.... in 1 vs 1 it could also make sense to boost the range and use mortar emplacments. Those also get a range buff. After that spotters and spotters arty.

Priest is something for longer or larger games. Idk if i would use it at all in 1 vs 1. Maybe rather arty cromwell. Even in 2 vs 2 i played it usually with spotter/officer off map and range increase for my mortars. Visibility and quick strikes rather than going for something huge and expensive like priest. Note also that the need for priest increases with map size. You barely make profit of long range priest that comes late when the map is just large enough that simple axis rocket arty wont shoot from edge to edge. This means that when your costly 5 CP priest comes in axis will probably have tons of cheap early rocket arty that posses a threat to your priest. And your defenses will be smashed already during the time you wait for priest and any momentum lost.

RA is most effective when you or your team has the initiative. If you are just reacting the doc becomes almost useless for reasons.

1. You need the arty for defensive purposes. Thus you expose it more often (means making it visible to enemie arty whenever you use it).
2. By doing so its hard to scratch the defenses. Just defending isnt the way to success. Only high vet priest has a cooldown short enough that you can throw arty against incoming attacks and defenses at the same time.



In General arty is most successfull when having already the upper hand.

1. You decide when to use it and aginst what
2. You can push your enemie to a certain point and crush it with minimum arty effort rather than using 5 barrages to kill one panther that makes a rampage run accross the map
3. You can force your opponent to move his units at a point you want them and destroy it.
4. Usually you have the upper hand in reconassaince. Thus its easier to detect kill enemies arty by hiding yours easier.



And since in a 1 vs 1 its just you who play it makes little sense to run for priests. You wont gain any initiative by waiting. Also range advantage doesnt count here and priest is becoming a target to the cheapest trash arty or even one lucky vehicle like the puma with 50 mm canon that breaks your small defenses.


In 1 vs 1 you need a complete new gameplay and other units as you do in 3 vs 3 and 4 vs 4. Thus the doc has to be played completely different.

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby speeddemon02 » 19 Apr 2017, 17:02

I played a map 4v4 dont remember the name, but it was medium sized. The other 3 were there as containment and distraction. I moved to an island from the very beginning just outside their HQ. It was a long time, but worth it. Got two 25lbers and started shelling the HQ area to get kills for CP. Got the extended range and 4.2" mortar. Just sat there continuing to harass the base using spotters to help stop or prevent tank or heavy vehicle buildings. In the end I was able to take the closet player out with mortars while the other 3 not having much resistance moved it and finished them off. Very total war and a lot of fun coordinating attacks and being able to reach out and help others when possible

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Lionelus
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Lionelus » 19 Apr 2017, 19:28

sounds a lot like basebombing

how did your opponents react to such in-game behavior ?

I mean, this technique has a lot of rage potential. But I understand, you played RA advantages, which are bombing. Not sure the other team appreciated that

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby speeddemon02 » 20 Apr 2017, 04:20

Took a huge gamble moving and delaying my start, but it paid off in the end. Not something I'd recommend every time, but thought it would be a good example. It was orchestrated ahead of time with my teammates whom had to cover me and what I could have done early game. It was safe to say a quick match overall, but nerve wrecking.

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sgtToni95
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby sgtToni95 » 20 Apr 2017, 08:51

Update:
I had a game as Royal Arty last night, since you made me curious to maybe find some other way to play it.

Wasn't really the most challenging, i made 1 howitzer and forgot to use that since i don't really like arty.
Back to the point, i used to request off-map barrages with arty scouts, seing them vet without any significant change in their performances, but yesterday i wasn't able to keep them alive, and started calling off-map with Lt and captain. What i found out is that barrage kills count as their own, and i quickly got a vet 2 Captain (never even had vet1, maybe once) and vet3 Lt (only managed to have vet 2 in regular way, maybe just once vet 3). The point is after vet 2 Lt helped my inf to vet faster, i quickly got vet 4 Tommies, and theese two veted officers together made my inf squads true beasts.
I had a non veted tommies squad inside captain sector and Lt's influence, my enemy threw a nade right in the middle of the squad and it did pretty much no damage.
I actually never saw CW infantry behaving this good in combat, i was literally amazed.

To sum up, if you want to be aggressive, i think an early off-map unlock called in by officers to vet them, together with a good microing to keep infantry inside their radius, might provide you an amazing infantry impact.
You can really have a great early game since one of those barrages can kill a pak, an mg, and even a pz4 with some good RNG and, when used on infantry squads, the first shell always pins them down making them unusable and opening your path.
I expect someone now popping out of nowhere and saying "i always do that when playing RA, you learnt that from me" but i actually never saw that and i was truly surprised after realizing this.
After that game i went to Salvy13 to ask him why he never said that to me, and he told me he knew the thing, but he wasn't using that to get faster vets for his officers, prefering scouts to call the barrages. The reason is just he does not play offensively as you might understand from his words, so veted officers don't really make difference to him, but i think they might do it for you ;)

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby kwok » 20 Apr 2017, 09:30

I always do that when playing RA, you learned that from me.










Jk. That's genius, garden you. Yeah the vet bonuses for CW commanders are insane (markr made a post I think). your method of quick vetting is brilliant. I might actually try playing arty docs for fun instead of spite now....

I still barely play SE though. So boring. Toni go make it fun.

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby sgtToni95 » 20 Apr 2017, 13:30

Lol, i will try ahha :)

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Warhawks97 » 20 Apr 2017, 23:22

sgtToni95 wrote:Update:


What i found out is that barrage kills count as their own, and i quickly got a vet 2 Captain (never even had vet1, maybe once)


Hmm. What happend in the past years? Its like the era when ancient empires collapsed and their knowlegde lost during in the medival. And now people start relearning all the stuff.

I could have told you that but didnt expect that its unknown to players today :roll: ;)



Also yes, this off map is one of the best. It pins, has high damage and high density with quick coming strikes. Excellent for a fast early game. This combined with inf doc off map and cqc can win games before they become nasty arty camping matches (+ 75 mm HT).



But i tell you. This is why i loved WH officer pared with Volks. No building survives more than two of these strikes and one clears it almost for sure.

Same goes for WH leader stormtrooper. I had both with each over 100 kills. One men and 100 kills. I just loved vetting my leader units this way.

Nasty paks.... one click and they are gone. For example.

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby kwok » 21 Apr 2017, 02:09

Lololol Toni... your prediction came true...

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby sgtToni95 » 21 Apr 2017, 07:48

Hawks is lying..... did you read his previous post? He just wrote the same exact things i did..... just a copycat............
Hahaha kidding :) to my defence i can say that i never saw hawks nor anyone else playing RA and doing this, so what i found is really new for me, but it's not really a "hidden" ability, so i expected somebody already did.
Also i always found brits officers much harder than the others to vet: i mean, i saw many times PE, WH and US officer reaching vet 3, even 4, but in all the games i had as brits really few times i saw vet3 Lt and pretty much never veted the captain, so i was hoping there was a faster way to do it, even if it's only for one doc.

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby kwok » 21 Apr 2017, 18:32

I've seen people USE the officer off map... I mean I use it... that's not "lost knowledge".

But actively using it to vet soldiers as a strategy rather than just an obvious tactic of killing on map units I have NEVER seen anyone actively do. officer off map I see players choosing purely as a short term early game trade off to gain advantage before going the priest route.

Because yeah, no shit i use the officer bombards for all factions... and I knew it gave veterancy but I never incorporated it into active strategy. Normally I'd rather feed the kills directly to my soldiers and let my officers get the second hand vet. Not the other way around. But reversing the role of having officer vets feed buffs first then vetting inf? That's as new as warhawks saying he uses smoke hehehe.

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby sgtToni95 » 21 Apr 2017, 19:31

Who loves kwok, hands up ". Me

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby kwok » 22 Apr 2017, 02:42

sgtToni95 is actually my second name that I pretend to be so that I can jerk myself off in the forums.

Just kidding. <3 toni. Don't tell shadow, he might get jealous. But he has been away for so long... a man gets lonely.

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Redgaarden » 24 Apr 2017, 20:21

The other advantage RA has is that they can build the arty right away compared to Inf/Def/SE that have to use CP to unlock them


If you're talking about the 25 pounder It has insane low dmg and splash it wont even kill a sniper in a direct hit. You need cp for making it great, Arty spotter, canister rounds, creeping barrage.
And also RAF get 95mm cp free too which is one of my favourite arty units in the game.
Rifles are not for fighting. They are for building!

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Warhawks97
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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby Warhawks97 » 24 Apr 2017, 21:38

kwok wrote:I've seen people USE the officer off map... I mean I use it... that's not "lost knowledge".

But actively using it to vet soldiers as a strategy rather than just an obvious tactic of killing on map units I have NEVER seen anyone actively do. officer off map I see players choosing purely as a short term early game trade off to gain advantage before going the priest route.

Because yeah, no shit i use the officer bombards for all factions... and I knew it gave veterancy but I never incorporated it into active strategy. Normally I'd rather feed the kills directly to my soldiers and let my officers get the second hand vet. Not the other way around. But reversing the role of having officer vets feed buffs first then vetting inf? That's as new as warhawks saying he uses smoke hehehe.




Depends. Coz a veted officer buffs inf thus those become more deadly and vet faster as well.


And the reason you never saw it is because at the time we met each other i wasnt playing RA (coz others always wanted to or they failed to support RA players). And the reason you never saw me doing so with WH officer is the same as with RA. And with BK doc i did it with leader squad. Usually that one was the first reaching max vet and the 50-100 kill streak.




@toni:

Coz CW plays with less inf unless its commandos which have a special captain. And with just 1-2 inf sections its hard to vet your officers while using arty or tanks mainly anyways. WH and US etc fight more often with inf and luft uses the normal Hauptsturmführer for their luft inf. Also snipers can quickly vet your officers.

The Hauptsturmführer itself is also a decent combat unit. I keep it close front in ambush. So he vets by nearby inf while keeping safe from enemie fire. But also an ambush (esspecially with fire nade) can even instant wipe out SAS squads.

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Re: CW - Royal Artillery doctrine: tips & advice

Postby kwok » 24 Apr 2017, 23:54

Agreed on that last bit. Both SS and Stormtrooper officers are effective standalone assault soldiers that can rapid vet themselves.

For that matter, AB officer can also offmap vet itself, but I usually use the off map for the sake of offmap. Most the time if given the choice, I will direct contact with my regular soldiers so they get the veterancy instead of my officer. But this strat makes me rethink that approach.


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