4.9.5 Tank destroyers - ambush lock-down

[PiotrW]

Hello.
Camouflaged tank destroyer (RE Achilles) does not attack ANY enemy unit when "ambush lock-down" is enabled.
- once "ambush" button is pressed unit is completly "disabled", even if there is enemy unit in range
- camouflaged TD is not tracking/aiming at enemy units in range
- there is no delay, unit is istantly disabled, before it gets camouflaged/transparent
- "ambush lock-down" button description (for RE Achilles) says: "lock-down your HELLCAT..."

[Wolf]

You mean it does not autoatack, but you can force it to attack or that it cant attack even when you want to?

It was wanted feature and was added before, now it was added to more TDs which dont have hold fire button. In order to not fire to distant tanks / unwanted tanks.

[PiotrW]

You mean it does not autoatack, but you can force it to attack..."

Yes. Exactly.

It was wanted feature and was added before, now it was added to more TDs which dont have hold fire button. In order to not fire to distant tanks / unwanted tanks.

Ok. Understood.

[Wolf]

We can however look at what abilities are there on the slots where hold fire should be and think about if some of them are needed etc.

[RellHaiser]

You know, this is pretty much identical to the report I submitted here less than 7 days ago about exactly the same thing (minus the description mentioning the Hellcat).

In it MarKr explained some of the technical reasons for it being implemented the way it is. I do admittedly prefer it the way it was before.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Currently it' MUCH better than before, you can let the axis heavy to come close and one shot it. In past there was no sense that Achiles autoatacked KT from max distance for instance, since it coukdnt penetrate.

[PiotrW]

Currently it' MUCH better than before, you can let the axis heavy to come close and one shot it. In past there was no sense that Achiles autoatacked KT from max distance for instance, since it coukdnt penetrate.

Good point.
It's only matter of habit. Time to get used to new functionality, but unit with "hold fire" button would be more flexible (auto OR manual fire on demand).

[XAHTEP39]

You mean it does not autoatack, but you can force it to attack or that it cant attack even when you want to?

It was wanted feature and was added before, now it was added to more TDs which dont have hold fire button. In order to not fire to distant tanks / unwanted tanks.

Wolf, it is good feature, if unit doesn`t have "hold fire button"! especially for TD with good fire-range...
But... Infantry Antitank-squads has ability "ambush" - ok! Has "hold-position" ability - yesss! Has "hold-fire mode" - great! But... In "ambush" position+"hold-fire mode=off" they don`t auto-attack vehicles/tanks in fire-range!!! Really tank move directly on "ambush" squad and is very close, but squad require "to order fire!"
Please check it, IMHO it is bug.
P.S. This situation was with PE antitank infantry few times.

[kwok]

I think the difference is for the AT teams, there are regular soldiers that would shoot their small arms breaking the ambush.
So technically, the hold fire for at teams is redundant.
I think. Not sure.

[XAHTEP39]

No kwok, AT-squads in "ambush" + "hold fire=off" don`t fire AT-weapon on vehicles and don`t fire rifles on infantry, i.e. they doesn`t fire completely only direct order.
I.e. "hold fire button" is always "on" for AT-squad.

[kwok]

Yea I know. Hm maybe I did not explain well.
The reason why ambush plus hold fire off does not auto attack is because attack orders are given to squads not entities themselves. So, if they had auto attack on, then the gun soldiers will shoot at inf when you don't want them to as AT soldiers. This is why it is this way. So it isn't a bug, more like a workaround a limitation.

[XAHTEP39]

But for some units (TDs in "ambush" (propably not all), Paks, etc) and for some abilities of other (loading HVAP, APCR, APDS, etc) - they IGNORE infantry and autoattack only vehicles.

So... it is logic to use this principe for AT-squads in "ambush" + "autoattack mode" = IGNORE infantry and autoattack only vehicles.

[kwok]

Hm I'm away from my computer at the moment but I THINK I know how it works. Auto targeting is decided by the weapon (if not the squad or entities), not the ability. Hold fire will either let you auto attack or not auto attack, but not what it will or will not auto attack.


Huh actually now that I think about it. Why not just make it so td's don't auto attack inf at all? That should make it so hold fire off won't break ambush for inf.

[XAHTEP39]

I do analogy with AT-infantry: heavy long-range AT-guns (Pak 40, M5, 17-pound), it has crew: 2 gunners and 3 riflemans; "ambush"+"autoattack"=fire on max range vehicle and ignore infantry; it has "hold fire mode" = you must to conrol AT-gun and to order fire.

This principe must to apply to AT-infatry (generally, it is just mobile short-rage AT-unit): 1...2 rocketlaunchers and 3...2 riflemans; "ambush"+"autoattack" = fire on max range (maybe, if possible to coding and necessary, on medium range) vehicle, but it is just "idle" at present (ignore vehicles and infantry) and require to send order to fire in "ambush" always in ON/OFF hold fire mode.

[kwok]

I get it, I'm not saying what it should and shouldn't be. I'm just telling you how it works (to the best of my knowledge). The difference between the pak and the rocket soldiers is that if you notice the crew never even shoot at infantry because their setting is not to auto attack infantry.
All I'm saying is if you make it the way you want, then the two additional riflemen attached to the panzerjaeger squad would not auto attack infantry.