Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.5 Beta Patch Preview

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

I think everybody agree that Stuka definately need some changes, so, its up to Wolf what solutions he will choose from the suggested once, or maybe something different.

[MarKr]

Remember, that's ur own personal opinion about it... So; u gotta have to keep it to urself then. As it apparently also does clearly contradict with what Wolf has earlier said too.. and even for me it is more than just a completely stupid move which could totally ruin the whole patch so far! Ur opinion here is more or less represented as exactly what? An expert pvp player perhaps?? Don't think so to be honest.. or maybe as a developer??? Don't think so either. Since it doesn't carry out that much here... As it only represents urself! With all kind of respect to ur efforts though, no offense.

Well you're right, it is only my opinion and I kept it to myself until somebody asked for it. It is also true that my opinion counts about as much as anybody else's. Actually only Wolf's opinion matters...and Tiger's opinion matters too. So from now on we'll have a silent forum. Starting at this moment, as our pvp master Tiger1996 commanded, shut your mouths about anything unless you're certified pvp expert or dev team member whose opinion matters (meaning you have red colored nick which goes "Wolf"). Just to avoid any missunderstandings in the future, better put your "pvp expert certificate" into your signature. Any post without such signature will be deleted automatically.

If you allow me, master Tiger, and I am already horribly sorry about this, to express my opinion for one last time before I cut my tounge and fingers off (to prevent myself from the temptation and horrible sin of expressing my opinion in spoken or written form ever again) this:

and even for me it is more than just a completely stupid move which could totally ruin the whole patch so far!

You said it "even FOR ME...". I know that opinions of others don't matter but let's be totally crazy just for a second and pretend they do, how many would share their opinion with you, I wonder.

Now, please excuse me, I gonna go whip myself unconscious for the insolence I showed by expressing my thoughts.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Yup, now show us once again ur true ugly intuition while going crazy as usual... What did I say more than that I remembered u that it's only nothing but ur own personal opinion as it's not the same opinion of all the other team members nor apparently even the same as Wolf himself according to what he said earlier.

I know that opinions of others don't matter but let's be totally crazy just for a second and pretend they do, how many would share their opinion with you, I wonder.

Oh, u know that it's not about how many are with or against.. even then... Where were u when the majority was agreeing on that ACEs should be Vet2 exactly like I requested?? Or is the voice of others suddenly going to matter with u just this time?
Cut the crap... Srsly, u r off; I am told not to quarrel with u anymore by higher dev team members. Therefore I am not going to continue this shit unless u insist!

[Armacalic]

Hey, Tiger. Hey, look here. Over here, just look.

No. Not even half the people agreed with the changes for Aces you and Sukin were agreeing on. More importantly, Wolf didn't agree with you, so you got owned there fair and square, stop with the insults, it's not like you can use them properly anyways.

So you're lashing against Markr because he can just take your bull in stride. Please, direct those words to Wolf and let's see how long it takes for you to be unable to post a thing here again.

[Krieger Blitzer]

U only show up whenever I quarrel with MarKr, weird!
Completely neglecting 16 pages of game disscussion and only just now u decide to finally post something when u see this happens...

So you're lashing against Markr because he can just take your bull in stride. Please, direct those words to Wolf and let's see how long it takes for you to be unable to post a thing here again.

Oh; like I am so scared right now

[Armacalic]

Not like you're going to do it (because, oh, how scared you really are after all), and not like I'm wrong. Don't pin the keeping the Aces as they are on Markr, when you already whined directly to Wolf and got told off.

[MarKr]

Yup, now show us once again ur true ugly intuition while going crazy as usual...

That's what happens when I talk to you...it simply seems impossible to go any other way... Most puzzling is the fact that it never happens to me when I talk to other people

What did I say more than that I remembered u that it's only nothing but ur own personal opinion as it's not the same opinion of all the other team members nor apparently even the same as Wolf himself according to what he said earlier.

You actually said that I should keep the opinion to myself because I'm not a PvP expert and my opinion as dev member doesn't count too (both true). Isn't this the case for majority of forum members (not being pros nor part of dev team) - so what you implied there is that only pros and Wolf are those whose opinion matters. Not to mention that measuring who's pro and who is not is kinda problematic too.

Oh, u know that it's not about how many are with or against..

I am not saying that their opinion in the matter I stated would change anything. I only wondered how many people would support your point of view. Simply my curiosity.

Where were u when the majority was agreeing on that ACEs should be Vet2 exactly like I requested??

I was here, following the topic but since nobody asked for my opinion I kept it for my self. And it is no secret that you wanted this just so you could get your hands on ALRS right from the moment you get ACE into field so it wasn't really about the ACEs only about accessing your beloved ability faster (at least from your side).
And it is also funny/weird that you said several times somethig like "if Wolf says something, I'll accept it" then, when Wolf says something you like/agree with, you react to people's opposition with something like "Wolf said no, so stop arguing it is not gonna happen." but when he says something you disagree with you are all like "Ohh, come on!!! Whyyyyyy?!?!??! It is nonsense! You should do it as I say, trust me!" and won't shut up about it...just saying.

[Krieger Blitzer]

And it is also funny/weird that you said several times somethig like "if Wolf says something, I'll accept it" then, when Wolf says something you like/agree with, you react to people's opposition with something like "Wolf said no, so stop arguing it is not gonna happen." but when he says something you disagree with you are all like "Ohh, come on!!! Whyyyyyy?!?!??! It is nonsense! You should do it as I say, trust me!" and won't shut up about it...just saying.

But actually I guess u already know that I made some 1vs1 games with Wolf after that when I gladly accepted the fact that he doesn't want to change them! Haven't I mentioned before that I am convinced and that I am totally fine with it too? It's not like I kept whining forever... As I am no longer requesting such a change btw.
My point here.. that it's not about how many are with or against!

That's what happens when I talk to you...it simply seems impossible to go any other way... Most puzzling is the fact that it never happens to me when I talk to other people

Hmm, it's a shame :/

You actually said that I should keep the opinion to myself because I'm not a PvP expert and my opinion as dev member doesn't count too (both true). Isn't this the case for majority of forum members (not being pros nor part of dev team) - so what you implied there is that only pros and Wolf are those whose opinion matters. Not to mention that measuring who's pro and who is not is kinda problematic too.

But I also said that I definitely respect ur efforts.. didn't I?
Anyway, if it reached u that way.. then u may have my honest apologise... As I did mean no offense as I mentioned already!!

[JimQwilleran]

I am just wondering... why is it always Tiger vs rest of the world? I mean, have you ever seen Sukin angry on Markr? Or Devilfish angry on me? Please tell me Tiger, why is it always Markr, Butter, Cyber, Sukin, Armacalic and others vs you? Are we all wrong all the time? Are we all stupid? Because you say it's not any problem with you, so what is the problem with us?

[Krieger Blitzer]

Devil was "angry" with MarKr before considering the 6pdr from gliders.. even u probably was the same!
Sukin was "angry" with Hawks many times before too...
Jalis was "angry" with JFF1 very obviously as well.
Wolf was "angry" with Lunarwolf... If u remember him!

How exactly would u define the word "angry" here?!
There are also some people whom I NEVER been "angry" with or just rarely.
Pzblitz1 for example... I never disagreed with him really. Not a single time! We have been in contact for long periods regarding several matters and I never had a clash with such a respectful developer.
Even Wolf and JFF1, I had some problems with Wolf only a single time maybe long time ago.. but then? Not really as we even played together... And JFF1, just never any problems hopefully.

What about Lehr?? He is a good mate since long time.. we used to dislike each other perhaps when I first met him... But later never again as he has been currently a very good guy I think.
Same with u, are we "angry" together now? No.
And I am not "angry" with Sukin either...

Redgaarden, another experienced player whom I have never been "angry" with.
Terence, never really had any problems with him too.
Hawks... Well, how many times we disagreed??? Can't count.. though he is still a very nice person as we even played together when I uploaded that as a video as well!!

So, the problem is not me I guess.. neither saying it is MarKr's... And I honestly wouldn't put Keks or Armacalic in one line with all the others mentioned above as it might be a very special case specifically with these 2 being even much deeper kind of a problem I am afraid.

[Armacalic]

Glad to know you consider someone who points out what you're doing wrong as a problem. Because I'd rather not be anything else, as long as you continue being wrong.

[Devilfish]

Seriously Tiger, it's time to knock off this bullshit, just stop it.

This is a public forum and people discuss and present their opinions here freely. What are you trying to act here? Your majesty count Tiger, has 2k posts, most active forum member, been pro while we still sucked on mama's teats, everybody bow and shut up, and better do not cross the line or else! Are you serious man, wake up.

Are we suppose to believe you that you actually think that Stuka is "not really even that good"? Come on....
Basically everybody who took part in this Stuka discussion so far agreed that Stuka is one of the best arty piece in the game, effective and requires CPs. Me,Illa,Sukin,Dr.Zhivago,Mark. All experienced players, except Mark who is developer. Yet you basically, indirectly tell him to shut up, his own opinion is irrelevant and should keep it for himself. What the fuck? Who's opinion is relevant? Yours? Sure....All you do is keep spamming bullcrap, picking up quotes out of context and which fits you, and bringing irrelevant bullshit like some ACE commander or whatever here in a loop....

Yet we don't even want to rob Terror of Stuka, just add it CP as it definitely should have. It's a doc unique, super effective arty piece.
Usually one have to decide how to develop a doc in a particular game. Do I go for off-map and howies first? Or I get early 107? Do I get cheap inf as soon as possible or I rather get early HE jumbo and arty support?
There is NO such thing in terror because one particular way is so much SUPERIOR to any other, that there is no reason not to go for it. 3x gren upgrade->panther. Maybe only possible alternation is that you sit on your ass and go straight for panther instead of grens. Unless very specific rare situations, there is simply no reason to go for other CPs, as they are totally inferior.
If we add Stuka to the arty branch it will make sense to invest CP there, and one must do tactical decision if he needs arty for the cost of later panther/grens or via versa. Stuka will be still THERE and after time at your disposal no matter what path you choose to take.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I can see that u have finally stopped with just repeating the word "trash" as u have now started with providing some counter arguments...
I will probably have to skip some parts though while just directly jumping to the point, however.. that there are still some points that I would like to comment on;

everybody bow and shut up, and better do not cross the line or else!

Yes, don't cross ur line.. as u simply can't call those who think otherwise as "nuts" anyhow whom are apparently Wolf, me and Lehr... Or u must be a retard then as I previously said!

Basically everybody who took part in this Stuka discussion so far agreed that Stuka is one of the best arty piece in the game, effective and requires CPs. Me,Illa,Sukin,Dr.Zhivago,Mark. All experienced players, except Mark who is developer.

Told u more than a single time it's not about how many are with or against a certain idea.. take that matter of ACEs as a live example or even that poll Sukin made regarding the 2nd RL... Or maybe consider another fictional one, what if everybody here agreed to remove the SP? Would it mean it has to be so?? I doubt.

Stuka will be still THERE and after time at your disposal no matter what path you choose to take.

Should I repeat myself again? Terror DOES already have enough weak points.

Terror doc weak spots shortly again;
-Absolutely no inf can camo unlike Inf doc which has even cheaper infinite Rangers that could camo everywhere with also less expensive weapon upgrades.
-No reliable AA.
-Weak mid game due to the complete absence of any good early medium tanks such as the Pz4 H unlike Blitz doc on the other hand.

[Armacalic]

You demand that we show you respect, then proceed to insult, outright tell people lolTL;DR, that they cannot comprehend the true nature of your inability to use that thing you have between your ears for anything else other than stroke your own ego. I'll tell you a little secret, you'll get no fucking respect from anyone who has a modicum of self-worth that way.

Repeating Markr here, you say "SP removal won't happen because Wolf said so" but immediately proceed to holler to the 4 winds that Wolf is wrong in denying the rework of Ace tanks. Your own example blows in your face, you smartass.

Believe what you want about Terror, more people agree with it the opposite, including some of the people that actually develop the mod. I say you're not nuts, I say your brain is not meant to be hung out for everyone to catch a whiff of how spoiled rotten it is.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Yet you basically, indirectly tell him to shut up, his own opinion is irrelevant and should keep it for himself. What the fuck?

And oh yes btw, I wouldn't count MarKr as someone who really participated in the Stuka discussion in particular anyhow.. he only provided his opinion when he was asked... Which is definitely not what I have objected on since it's of course his own free right to think whatever he wants. As I asked him in other words about how much weight his opinion would carry out in such a discussion anyway! Since he did not participate in the discussion itself after all. That's all what I actually meant... That telling his opinion here hasn't added anything in this specific matter since he didn't participate really in it with any possible arguments... As he only just shortly replied the question saying that he was never against adding CPs to the Stuka while providing absolutely no any kind of arguments though.

So, if he wouldn't answer the question at all would have been probably better than just quickly throwing his opinion without any reasoning!

But looks like he got it completely wrong as usual like if I was telling him that his opinon is always worthless or something!! Anyway.

[Devilfish]

Yes, don't cross ur line.. as u simply can't call those who think otherwise as "nuts" anyhow whom are apparently Wolf, me and Lehr... Or u must be a retard then as I previously said!

I didn't call anyone who thinks otherwise than me "nuts". I said "Anyone who says Stuka "doesn't do much" is simply nuts". This is just a general informal phrase expressing a great folly or obviously incorrect decision/statement/whatever. E.g "Are you nuts?! It's snowing, you can't go out without pants!".
While calling someone directly retard is simply straight insult, really inappropriate...

Told u more than a single time it's not about how many are with or against a certain idea.. take that matter of ACEs as a live example or even that poll Sukin made regarding the 2nd RL... Or maybe consider another fictional one, what if everybody here agreed to remove the SP? Would it mean it has to be so?? I doubt.

Great example how you are simply talking irrelevant garbage. Why are you even posting your useful inputs here then?? There's no point, Wolf will just decide based on his mood, so there is no point in typing. If you are so sure nothing we say or how many are supporting some suggestion, why do you bother countering us (tirelessly).
To your Terror weakness list:

-Absolutely no inf can camo unlike Inf doc which has even cheaper infinite Rangers that could camo everywhere with also less expensive weapon upgrades.

Acting like everybody can camo except Terror. AB(i think),Armor,RA,RE,TH,SE,Def. If I don't count SS and SE demo, none of these docs have camoed assault inf. Not saying that both RAF and Inf can camo after like 6CP, yes CP.

-No reliable AA.

It has puma. Look at your favorite Inf or Armor. They've got only quad HT too. Even if you thought that quad HT is better AA than Puma, solution would be to tweak Pumas AA effectiveness, still nothing to do with Stuka in any way.

-Weak mid game due to the complete absence of any good early medium tanks such as the Pz4 H unlike Blitz doc on the other hand.

It has Stubby,Stug,F2. Only one who has H/J is TH and Blitz, not like only Terror is missing out. And they need CP for it. Yes CP. What's so fucking wierd about Stuka requiring CP. It's so obvious, really, more like a overlooked mistake that it had no CP till now.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I didn't call anyone who thinks otherwise than me "nuts". I said "Anyone who says Stuka "doesn't do much" is simply nuts". This is just a general informal phrase expressing a great folly or obviously incorrect decision/statement/whatever. E.g "Are you nuts?! It's snowing, you can't go out without pants!".
While calling someone directly retard is simply straight insult, really inappropriate...

While u know that there are those who believe that it sometimes doesn't do much!
in cities for example it doesn't do much where u will better definitely become in need of an indirect off map arty support since u can't hit anything due to the buildings located everywhere. Not to mention again that wasting the barrage of this thing at any point would be very harmful because it's very expensive while u also often need to get closer to gain some more accuracy as well!
So, 115 ammo for 6 rockets that can miss or simply deal no damage is surely a very big deal as it would be too bad then paying such an amount of ammo only to have lottery results.. which are not stable anyhow since u will keep praying that it hopefully hits.
U called those who believe so.. as "nuts", don't u think it's also a direct insult?? That's why I replied the same.
Anyway.. if u didn't mean it as an insult then I guess I can just get over it so far...

Great example how you are simply talking irrelevant garbage. Why are you even posting your useful inputs here then?? There's no point, Wolf will just decide based on his mood, so there is no point in typing. If you are so sure nothing we say or how many are supporting some suggestion, why do you bother countering us (tirelessly)

Very good question here I must say.. the reason why I keep countering u is obviously that I am pissed at how u guys are doing such a pressure in order to push this specific point. And whenever I respond.. some of u start saying that "u r alone, there are many agreeing on it already" although I gave u a very clear example...
Me, Wake, Sukin and Tor all agreed on that ACEs should be Vet2.. and even more... Absolutely no one here said anything against the suggestion; yet I simply accepted the fact that Wolf denied it while also requesting it no more.
But here, Wolf has apparently said it's not a good suggestion of which I agree with... Yet.. some of u proceed the exaggeration! Like if the Stuka has been NOT requiring any CPs at all since the very begining of this mod already!!!
Wolf CAN change his mind due to this heavy pressure.. of which is something I wouldn't like anyhow as I am also afraid off. Which is another reason why I am keeping to counter.. even if just alone I stand.

To your Terror weakness list:

My point here is exactly what Wolf said.. that Terror isn't completely OP anyhow as Dr claims... And that there are still some weak points and things they don't have or missing, as u can for example easily ambush their Grens in late game with ur Rangers or maybe keep using airplanes as much as u could. Or just concentrate on beating it in mid game with ur early Jumbos and Churchills!

Grens now don't gain more HP after zeal upgrade anymore.. Pershing is fixed being also cheaper than Panther G.
Calliope is now earlier.. Jumbo is bit later... But both even cheaper!!! AB is also more effective now.

CAN. WE. PLZ. JUST. FIRST. SEE. HOW. THINGS. WILL. PLAY. OUT? Wish if u guys get my point.
My opinion stands clear.. with all my respect to urs also on the other hand!

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Actually, long time ago when Walking Stuka used to be in BK doc ot DID require command points, I would say that probably devs have just overseen this after moving it to Terror. As said before, ots just against all the balance principles that you can get heavy arty without any CP.

So, we finally would like to hear devs decision about it, Mark, Wolf, do you have any plans fro walking stuka.

[Devilfish]

Dude, sorry, but you just junk up ton of text, but with little to no value.
Instead of reacting on what people say, you just repeat the same thing on and on in a loop, just changing words from time to time.

U called those who believe so.. as "nuts", don't u think it's also a direct insult?? That's why I replied the same.

See? I explained the "being nuts" phrase to you in a post above, yet you still just repeat the same shit you said already 3 times, "you insulted I insulted".

Wolf CAN change his mind due to this heavy pressure.. of which is something I wouldn't like anyhow as I am also afraid off. Which is another reason why I am keeping to counter.. even if just alone I stand.

See? Before you said that it doesn't mean anything that majority of us consider Stuka CP relevant, because blablabal. Now you admit it matters because Wolf can consider the suggestion fine and pass it and thus you must counter us to negate it. So you are just plainly making things up and keep repeating your example with ACEs.

My point here is exactly what Wolf said.. that Terror isn't completely OP anyhow as Dr claims... And that there are still some weak points and things they don't have or missing, as u can for example easily ambush their Grens in late game with ur Rangers or maybe keep using airplanes as much as u could. Or just concentrate on beating it in mid game with ur early Jumbos and Churchills!....

Again. You gave me very particular weaknesses of terror in your opinion. I have debunked them, and instead of you reacting to THAT, you just again keep talking the same song again.....

I have never even said Terror is completely OP. Because it isn't. It is extremely versatile though, and very powerful in most scenarios. I am no allied "fanboy", I play both sides, I play terror 70% of my axis games. I use Stuka all the time and opponents use Stuka all the time against me. There are really not questions about its usefulness and great strength. It needs CP, so Terror is played at least little bit differently in various games, adapting the situation.

[MarKr]

So, we finally would like to hear devs decision about it, Mark, Wolf, do you have any plans fro walking stuka.

Yes, plan is to put CP requirement of Walking Stuka. Wolf already told me to do it. Now I'm waiting for reply from him on where in Command tree it should sit. I will let you know when I know more.

[Krieger Blitzer]

And here it comes just like as I expected as mentioned already through my last post... Wolf really changed his opinion now due to this pressure of which is what I was afraid off
However, that there is probably nothing more to say here than that I glady respect and also accept his decision at this point.
But at the same.. I guess I can pretty much criticize him here of how he simply came over the pressure on the matter of ACEs while now being obliged to achieve this point regarding the Terror Stuka! Whatever.

[kwok]

You dun fucked the game up now, markr. All your fault, singlehandedly destroying balance for the allied fanboys. You devs are ruining the mod.
If only Warhawks would just shut up.

(Sarcasm if it didn't come across over the Internet)

[kwok]

Jeez tiger, maybe the difference between the "pressure to change aces" and "pressure to change Stuka" is the goddamn reasons that people provided??? That the Stuka change was well supported? I think stukas are too strong too, but every said the reasons I thought already. Wasn't any need for me to post anything about stukas or terror doc. Do you simply not trust devs to be able to aggregate information and make decisions? Do you really think YOU are their deciding branch? Before you deny that, you definitely talk in such a way. Just because you add "respectfully" at the end of your sentences does not make it respectful.

[Armacalic]

And here it comes just like as I expected as mentioned already through my last post... Wolf really changed his opinion now due to this pressure of which is what I was afraid off
However, that there is probably nothing more to say here than that I glady respect and also accept his decision at this point.
But at the same.. I guess I can pretty much criticize him here of how he simply came over the pressure on the matter of ACEs while now being obliged to achieve this point regarding the Terror Stuka! Whatever.

No, fuck off. We're the only ones "pressuring" Wolf? Then half of these pages aren't about you repeating the changes that mostly only you want? Aren't half the posts on other treads about sometimes completely unrelated topics not filled with you derailing it because ALRS this and that? Your camo this, your camo that? That Ace Pershing is fine being worse because the Ace Tiger gets ALRS?

You're just a hypocrite, and an asshole.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

So, we finally would like to hear devs decision about it, Mark, Wolf, do you have any plans fro walking stuka.

Yes, plan is to put CP requirement of Walking Stuka. Wolf already told me to do it. Now I'm waiting for reply from him on where in Command tree it should sit. I will let you know when I know more.

Nice to hear. Keep in mind the solution I proposed ( flamr nades and mortar shell 1 CP > Firestorm 2 CP > Stuka 2 CP > V1 2 CP. Imo it is the best option out there.