Final initial list! v4.95/v5.00

[Armacalic]

Denial, utter fucking denial

Please, you really just said that you are a respectful person? Pass me whatever it is you're smoking, because you were just mocking me with your previous post. You have been twisting words from almost everyone when it suits you to make the other look like a fool or misrepresent what they're telling you, and you are ignoring people that tell you when you are problematic, when your suggestions are problematic and when you're out of line.

Just. Check. Any. Of. The. Threads. You. Write. In.

Chances are from the first or second post, you're already ignoring or misrepresenting and twisting words. Let's count the people that support you almost without fail. Yafa, Seha, did I miss anyone?

When you're acting relatively respectful, you get Sukin some times, some times Warhawks. Kwok was with you somewhat often too, until you started disrespecting everyone but those who follow you like lapdogs and don't question your behavior and sanity.

Other people that get spooked by your load of hot air. They either hold on for a bit, or they're driven out immediately when people start calling you out on your ignoring advice or warning. No, these people don't count as your supporters, unless they verbally said so.

"Quote me where I ever insulted anyone"

The most recent? You mocking my one of my previous posts. You ignoring most of Mark's posts saying that the Flank speed will not be changed. You saying that Mark's not important enough and Wolf will have the final say if you continue insisting. You saying that you have no fault at all, in any situation.

That's just the last 2 pages of this topic, want me to actually quote the different topics where you continue mock and or misrepresent and twist other people's posts? I sure can, but your pretty eyes will just skim over and say you were in the right all the time.

"I never mentioned how much I donated."

Neither did I, bitch. But Seha all so happily reminded us that you donated and we should treat you better, implying that we should treat you better because you donated.

"Supporting doesn't only mean donation!"

No-fucking duh. Read what I fucking said. I just told you your support is not bigger than other people's, regardless of how much you donated.

"But I always watch my words I never went off the manners line."

Have another bitchslap for lying to your own fucking face.

[Panzer-Lehr-Division]

Tiger will never pass 1600 posts here, he told me so!

[Butterkeks]

Tiger will never pass 1600 posts here, he told me so!

So what?
Is he now not responsible for the current state of the community because he won't pass 1600 posts?

No really, what has this to do with it xD

[MarKr]

Surprise! I'm back!

I'm still pissed at Tiger though...man, I don't really mind if you post here but if you decide to do so, PLEASE use valid arguments for rebuttal and do not diverge the point of discussion somewhere else (or I might get pissed off again).
As it's been a hot topic I would like to remind somethng - it has been clearly said that donations are made of your free will and would give you no priviliged position - therefore any argument which is based on "I donate" is hollow - so I don't want to hear anything about how someone is important because of donations.

Also:

You ignoring most of Mark's posts saying that the Flank speed will not be changed. You saying that Mark's not important enough and Wolf will have the final say if you continue insisting.

I do not decide ANYTHING and I have said that many times and Wolf indeed has the final word. If I say that something was dismissed before it doesn't mean Wolf cannot change his opinion.

I do not want to see throwing trash at Tiger anymore (at least until he manages to piss me off again ).
I didn't quit and never intended to do so. As Freddie said: "Show must go on" and so we should get things moving again. Work on the patch is still going, expect info updates on progress soon.

[ShadowIchigo]

You guys are some fuckin dbag dickhead fucking idiots.. great job u fuck ups.. now mark left bc of u dumbass fuckin imbeciles dumb fuckin idiots goodluck dickheads

[Butterkeks]

Good to see you not leaving Markr

Work on the patch is still going, expect info updates on progress soon.

And also very nice to hear about that

I hope the last few comments of many people have shown you that we love you, no matter what you thought

[MarKr]

Hey guys.

So in the topic of changing costs of HE mod upgrades and AP/HE swap cost. What are your ideas about the cost?

Somebody said that the upgrade could be expensive, like 100 Ammo but the swap really cheap - like 10 ammo per swap or even for free.

I'm listening to ideas.

(We're talking about HE Mod - units such as M4 Sherman, Stubby PIVs, Churchill MkIV etc.)

EDIT:
Also, doesn't 107 mortar pit still feel too strong? Anyone feels like further nerf could be applied (lower HP/ longer reload time...)?

[Wake]

I think HE modes should just be standardized, and no cost to swap. The idea being that once you equip the tank with the shells at the tank depot, the crew already has them in the tank, so they can switch between HE and AP whenever. To balance this, just make the cost to equip the shells 75 munition. I think 100 is too high, since many maps have low munitions income.

Also, the only reason I think the 107mm mortar pit is too strong is because the shells actually track targets in mid-air. But this is a feature of the CoH engine, and can't be changed. For that reason, I would actually just suggest a slight damage reduction. The range is relatively short as it is, and the pit costs a lot to build. Most people will probably argue the health of it, since unlike the British mortar pit, which takes 1 grenade to clear, the US one takes 2 or even 3, and since the emplacement itself has a lot of health, it is easily recrewed. However, most artillery does a pretty good job of destroying it anyway, like Terror Stukas or Wespes.

And by itself, the mortar pit is almost useless. It's meant to be a part of a defense. You build it behind your lines and while the enemy is busy fighting your other units, they forget that they are in range of the mortar. Plus, if there is no one to defend the mortar pit, any axis unit can just continuously throw grenades on it. A good tactic to permanently get rid of it as axis is to kill the crew, take the pit for yourself, then delete it with the delete key.

[kwok]

From what I understand, all mortars are done by a random spot in an area. Accuracy for all mortars are the same, but when AoE is the size of a king tiger it's really hard to miss.

My problem with it is easy it is to dominate with it on a small map. Wake is right in that it is useless alone, but the problem is that it's so easy to support because you only need to stall an attack while the mortar itself makes short work of the attacker. Stalling is even EASIER on a small map because you can only attack from one angle.

If we insist on playing on small maps, my balance suggestion would be to make the reload time longer for the mortar so that way you can time attacks between rounds. If you have to deal with multiple mortar pits, that's when you can start to resort to arty. The cost for arty is about the same as the mortar and has a lot more survivability because arty is used from much farther away. All axis except for maybe TH and BKdoc have access to reliable arty, so no excuses. TH and BK doc can get around not using arty because mortars don't put as much dents to tanks which both docs have plenty of at a reasonable price.

[Warhawks97]

I might think same about mortar pit as i do/did about 88.

On one hand they are costly, on the other absolutely deadly. Sometimes a nerf along with cost drop solves some issues. The unit itself wont dominate that much, in return it can be better introduced into a combined arms playing. Means the player has to do a bit more than just to get the unit and having a "auto-win".

Sadly i do belive that people rather search for a "mid way" so that the unit hangs arround between being too expensive/not too expensive and too powerfull/not too powerfull.

[MarKr]

What about the costs for HE mod and switch? no opinion about that from you two?

[Warhawks97]

puh. idk. Only upgrade and then switch for free i would say 50-75 to upgrade.

or 35 to upgrade, 15-20 to switch? I cant say really to be honest oO. What about the timed one?


I might get arround and asking some players in steam or TS. Maybe just wait a bit untill people could create their opinions.

[kwok]

Eh. Never saw a problem. I find ways around it if it's a problem. I use it if I find it useful. I sort of like the idea of a costly switch, forces players to think twice about what role they want their unit to fill. But, that's just me. I'm just not a fan of easy all around units that take less critical thinking and decision making.

[kwok]

Is it true about what I said about mortars though? Is that technically how they work? I think Warhawks told me about this.

[Armacalic]

On the ammo swap ability. I'd say a 75-100 cost and no cost for the activation itself, but with a minute and a half or two minutes of cooldown to put more weight on the decision of if switching ammo for the situation is the right thing to do or not.

I'd suggest something similar should be done with the Single HE shot ability, high cost, low or non-existant activation cost and long-ish cooldown, about 30 to 40 seconds, but that's just me.

[MarKr]

I'd suggest something similar should be done with the Single HE shot ability, high cost, low or non-existant activation cost and long-ish cooldown, about 30 to 40 seconds, but that's just me.

I asked Wolf about this too. But with the patch a certain improvement of single HE shots should appear so let's wait how that works and then we can talk about changes in this ability .

[Eldrak1911]

On the ammo swap ability. I'd say a 75-100 cost and no cost for the activation itself, but with a minute and a half or two minutes of cooldown to put more weight on the decision of if switching ammo for the situation is the right thing to do or not.

That's a pretty good idea. But, imo, the high cost of the upgrade (like 100 ammo i.e), could be enough to put more weight on the decision to use it. Like Warhawks said on the other topic about HE round, 100 ammo is pretty big, if the tank is lost, it's 100 ammo lost too.

[Armacalic]

On the ammo swap ability. I'd say a 75-100 cost and no cost for the activation itself, but with a minute and a half or two minutes of cooldown to put more weight on the decision of if switching ammo for the situation is the right thing to do or not.

That's a pretty good idea. But, imo, the high cost of the upgrade (like 100 ammo i.e), could be enough to put more weight on the decision to use it. Like Warhawks said on the other topic about HE round, 100 ammo is pretty big, if the tank is lost, it's 100 ammo lost too.

The goal of my idea was simply to prevent people from switching ammo types on demand, keep some of the tanks from being able to reply to multiple threats on the fly, basically what the ability cost is for doing for it, just without being tied to the player's resources.

[Eldrak1911]

Ok, but a minute and a half, even 2 minutes ? A bit too much imo, 30 seconds would greatly enough, since almost every encounter in bkmod are solved in something like 10 seconds (I mean, encounter between two tanks, or between one tank/vehicle and a at squad)

[Butterkeks]

Yeah, 75 ammo to equip, no costs to switch + 30 seconds cooldown sounds good to me

Also, the only reason I think the 107mm mortar pit is too strong is because the shells actually track targets in mid-air. But this is a feature of the CoH engine, and can't be changed. For that reason, I would actually just suggest a slight damage reduction. The range is relatively short as it is, and the pit costs a lot to build. Most people will probably argue the health of it, since unlike the British mortar pit, which takes 1 grenade to clear, the US one takes 2 or even 3, and since the emplacement itself has a lot of health, it is easily recrewed. However, most artillery does a pretty good job of destroying it anyway, like Terror Stukas or Wespes.

And by itself, the mortar pit is almost useless. It's meant to be a part of a defense. You build it behind your lines and while the enemy is busy fighting your other units, they forget that they are in range of the mortar. Plus, if there is no one to defend the mortar pit, any axis unit can just continuously throw grenades on it. A good tactic to permanently get rid of it as axis is to kill the crew, take the pit for yourself, then delete it with the delete key.

Couldn't have said it any better

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Mortar pit is still insane, splash damage reduction or increased reloading time will help. Regarding HE rounds, 75 ammo for purchase and small cooldown after activation.

[Butterkeks]

Mortar pit indeed is very powerfull.

But consider the following:
I had yesterday a game with inf vs Blitz doc. My vet 2 rangers (equiped with MG) in yellow cover were not able to defeat vet 1-2 Storms in yellow cover but got instead slaughtered. Even when I outnumbered the enemy by 3:1, my rangers still got slaughtered.

Mortar pit was in fact the only way for me to finally dedeat those storms.
(M4 was no option, AT guns and AT teams everywhere)

Some splash damage reduction or higher reload time would be ok, but please don't nerf it too much.

[Tor]

Maybe HE for tanks need like in Jumbo 76mm but 3-4 sec? enough for 1 shoot.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

@Keks

Against storms rifle nades, snipers, quad cals, Jumbo, works pretty well. Snipers btw are generally crazy cost effective on allied side cause German inf is way more expensive, if you play against Luft and sniper scored 8 kills he already payed off his price, that's why I seldomly see how axis rebuild snipers after mid game, against inf/AB sniper is the worst choice simply, against RAF nt that good either because can't hit when they activate smoke.

By the way, can somebody post snipers comparison? I think different snipers have different boosts with gaining vet.

And while I was writing this text an idea crossed my mind that USA snipers probably shall be worse in performance than all others, in fact their cost is the same, but effectiveness is much better, because German soldiers are more expensive + each kill gives more exp, hence faster veterancy gaining + supply yard allows to rebuild snipers in late game anytime you want.

[Butterkeks]

@Keks

Against storms rifle nades, snipers, quad cals, Jumbo, works pretty well. Snipers btw are generally crazy cost effective on allied side cause German inf is way more expensive, if you play against Luft and sniper scored 8 kills he already payed off his price, that's why I seldomly see how axis rebuild snipers after mid game, against inf/AB sniper is the worst choice simply, against RAF nt that good either because can't hit when they activate smoke.

Well ok, rifle nades would have been an option, but they are unprecise as hell afaik
I had multiple snipers, but neblers, enemy snipers etc often killed em. Quad Cals and Jumbos, see reason why I didn't build M4
(I've even built two jumbos but they were also killed)

I'm not saying that 107 is in every game and in every situation your only way to defeat those storms, of course not. I'm just saying that in that particular case 107 saved my ass, and also did in some other games, so please don't nerf it too much

And while I was writing this text an idea crossed my mind that USA snipers probably shall be worse in performance than all others, in fact their cost is the same, but effectiveness is much better, because German soldiers are more expensive + each kill gives more exp, hence faster veterancy gaining + supply yard allows to rebuild snipers in late game anytime you want.

Dunno...
What exactly is your suggestion? If you lower for example the accuracy it could become impossible for US/CW to counter german snipers. Also keep in mind that Axis have more Docs in which they can build snipers (4 Allied docs/5 Axis docs, although the overall amount is the same).