Blitzkrieg Mod 4.8.5.0 Changelog Preview

Post by **Wolf** » 19 Dec 2014, 23:01

Hey, things are still being worked on, but to tease a bit, here is changelog preview for the new version.

New team member MarKr helped with various stuff in this update.
Please don't ask for stuff to be included in next patch in this topic. You can obviously express your expectations etc. but as stuff is being worked on and evaluated, saying "include this and that in next patch" won't really help.

Wake · Post by **Wake** » 19 Dec 2014, 23:46

Looks great! I wonder how terror doc will play out now, but it should be better.

At first, 6 grenadiers all with MP44's sounded terrifying, but then I realized, Knights Cross were exactly that but with more health. Grenadiers amongst all Wehrmacht docs should be used more now. Especially in terror, because grenadiers can use those incredibly deadly incendiary grenades that got removed from Knights Cross because some people thought they were OP.

The ONLY thing here that I object to is the sticky bomb change - it's not enough. PE AT grenades are still cheaper at a cost of 20 Munition, have further range, don't require an upgrade, and do much more damage.
Related to sticky bombs is that Rangers lose their ability to use them once they get the veterancy upgrade. It gets replaced by satchel charges. They should retain them, just add the satchel charges into the "2nd menu" expandable thing.

Oh, and to see more sticky bomb use, give them to more units. Right now only riflemen and unupgraded rangers have them. Give them to CQB squads, combat engineers, and even AT squads.

Other than that, great job!

Krieger Blitzer · Post by **Krieger Blitzer** » 20 Dec 2014, 00:17

@Wake; No! Allowing sticky bombs for more US troops sounds OP... Do u know that the Brandflasche of the Volks almost does no damage to Jeeps even?!

What's the point of deceasing Ace tanks veterancy points by 2??!! Idk. I guess I suggested a much better solution for Ace units Wolf! Now even the Tiger Ace can't use the Accurate Long Shot ability unless it's 1 more point Vet!! Why??!!

What about the Churchill armor btw??!! Isn't it going to be stronger?!

Well appreciated and good job anyways.

Post by **Wolf** » 20 Dec 2014, 00:23

Ace tanks become too good with Vet 4 upgrade, which is very soon available, also Aces are too good a deal, coming with both vetted TC and better tank overall, with upgrades.
Yes, there was possibility of limiting aces to one time call, however that considering some random factors and certain abilities in game wasn't picked up as better.
Increasing vet 4 step needed experience or reducing it overall was another thought solution, but other factors remained and thus this implemented solution. I was originally planing it for patch before btw., I said that somewhere.

Churchil armor is under evaluation.

Post by **MarKr** » 20 Dec 2014, 01:26

Right now only riflemen and unupgraded rangers have them.

I'm pretty sure that 101st have them too and maybe the 82nd also (not sure at this one)

Krieger Blitzer · Post by **Krieger Blitzer** » 20 Dec 2014, 01:38

The Ostwind can no longer shoot the ground!! Really??? This means that if there was an empty British emplacement for example like a mortar emplacement or an MG nest.. I can't take it down??!! I mean I will no longer become able to totally erase it using my Ostwind by ordering it to fire the ground at it??!! Oh!

Add the manual aiming ability for the Ostwind then at least...

Wake · Post by **Wake** » 20 Dec 2014, 01:54

MarKr wrote:
Right now only riflemen and unupgraded rangers have them.

I'm pretty sure that 101st have them too and maybe the 82nd also (not sure at this one)

Oh, yeah, they do. I forget, because I don't ever use airborne as I think it's the hands down worst doc in the entire game (101st and 82nd squads are terrible)

Sukin-kot (SVT) · Post by **Sukin-kot (SVT)** » 20 Dec 2014, 06:29

Looks very nice, good job! But dont forget about walking stuka pls, its worst cost\perfomance ratio arty in game, 320 mm rockets works like fireworks, although i belive that damage must be like 210 mm nebel, or even better.

Wake wrote:
MarKr wrote:
Right now only riflemen and unupgraded rangers have them.

I'm pretty sure that 101st have them too and maybe the 82nd also (not sure at this one)

Oh, yeah, they do. I forget, because I don't ever use airborne as I think it's the hands down worst doc in the entire game (101st and 82nd squads are terrible)

Ohohoh, maaaaan, you cant imagine how damn you are not right. In late game 101 with upgrades (5 Johnsons + basic vet lvl + fire nades + command team aura) are kicking all axis asses and impossible to beat them with inf, they always at frontline giving a constant push, moreover this mg and guns drop, it works incredible - take point, drop double at and mg, take next, double at and mg and so on. 300 ammo thunderbolt patrool probaly most devastating ability in game, it will clear sector from everything, tigers, paks, inf.... You just need to "catch" how to play with this doc, its not "drop and go" like raf and luft units, need to be more smart with it. Buy many 101 squads, equip them with 2 cases ( 6 recoiless or 5 johnsons) always use command team in front, the are giving a huge bonus + sniper + heal. If you are curious, i can send you some of 1impulse replays, he s kinda airborn pro player, and you ll see how this doc leave no chances to luft and stromtroopers together. Also donr forget that they have shortest reinforce time in compare with all axis elite units, thats why you will simply outnumber all inf.

Sukin-kot (SVT) · Post by **Sukin-kot (SVT)** » 20 Dec 2014, 09:24

Tiger1996 wrote:The Ostwind can no longer shoot the ground!! Really??? This means that if there was an empty British emplacement for example like a mortar emplacement or an MG nest.. I can't take it down??!! I mean I will no longer become able to totally erase it using my Ostwind by ordering it to fire the ground at it??!! Oh! Add the manual aiming ability for the Ostwind then at least...

That means that you cant use manual fire to shoot through the buildings and bushes, it still can hit ground forces of course.

Charles Vane · Post by **Charles Vane** » 20 Dec 2014, 13:52

Do u know that the Brandflasche of the Volks almost does no damage to Jeeps even?!

last time I checked brandflasche killed the Jeep in one blow.
tbh I have never seen something different.

gj on the upgrade STG for grens is a good solution and a fine compromise for KCH removal.
nice Changes.

QWERTYAndreas · Post by **QWERTYAndreas** » 20 Dec 2014, 16:26

Great Work. Simply, great Work.

The sticky migth need a Little more. Maybe like the AT grenade conscripts have in CoH2?

Warhawks97 · Post by **Warhawks97** » 20 Dec 2014, 16:40

Brandflasche deals way more damage than sticky. Also cost less and has more range. One Brandflasche also deals damage over time. Use it against CW truck, you will be surprised.

Sticky´s are pretty good vs the heaviest like JT etc but suck against everything else. Yeah, airborne rangers have them as well. When talking about airborne rangers; Markr has shown us a new ability bar able to switch using incendiary and normal grenades, hold fire and stuff like that. Is it going to be added as well?

Thx wolf for the new reinforce cost;)... maybe not perfect yet and maybe you forgot rifle men reinforcment. (you reduced grens reinforce cost but not rifle men to 50%). Also two rifles cost still more than one elite. Reduce it to 20 per men and people would get 2 for each axis elite soldier which seems more fair.

Great job with Grens and Stg´s. And nice idea for terror special.

And what about stormtooper? We get them for 450 mp off map and 400 on HT. Also off map limit is two squads but in HT i get 3. Which is correct? oO. As i am playing BK doc and stormtooper actually always when playing WE i do consider them as superior on each vet to counterpart units. I think a reinforce cost of 40/41 would seem fair.

what about US 75 mm pack howitzer? do we get them in motorpool? Getting FHQ each time on stupid dangerous areas sometimes which get destroyed pretty often is just stupid. Add it to Motorpool and available after motorpool upgrade for cost at 380mp and 25 ammo.

76 sherman cost reduced and adjusted to tank doc means that it will cost even less there as well? I am not quite sure what a stuart tank cost but i doubt that the difference will be that much. Afaik stuart cost 340/40 currently.

And even if we get that tank for cheap now i dont see the exact reason to build it with inf doc etc. As long as enough ammo for is available to use HVAP all the time the tank was a bit usefull but if not any price decrease doesnt make this tank more usefull. Fixed distant multiplier (check old posts from Jalis) and better point blank pen chance against axis mediums would have made this unit more appealing. But anyways. Lets see how it works now and if people will build this tank now.

Churchill tank armor?

US AT squad cost (build/reinforce)? Any plans?

Panzerfaust/Rifle grenade global upgrade (and taking no weapon slot and rifle nade only for inf and airborne doc)?

Bazookas for rifle men (instead rifle nade) and Rangers inf doc special Infantry squad (Infiltraton squad would become normal ranger squad)?

but thx a lot for the work already.
Special thx to HT changes and that inf will die now when HT gets destroyed. Since it got posted it got used to a great extend, esspecially from US players vs PE. Driving up to mortar carrier and when HT explode the Guys with Bazooka stay next to it and knocking out vehicles that in sight. It undermined the role of Greyhounds and others as "vehicle hunter".
Another question: will snipers still be able to shoot out of cangoroos (and HT´s as well)?

Wake · Post by **Wake** » 20 Dec 2014, 17:07

Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Ohohoh, maaaaan, you cant imagine how damn you are not right. In late game 101 with upgrades (5 Johnsons + basic vet lvl + fire nades + command team aura) are kicking all axis asses and impossible to beat them with inf, they always at frontline giving a constant push, moreover this mg and guns drop, it works incredible - take point, drop double at and mg, take next, double at and mg and so on. 300 ammo thunderbolt patrool probaly most devastating ability in game, it will clear sector from everything, tigers, paks, inf.... You just need to "catch" how to play with this doc, its not "drop and go" like raf and luft units, need to be more smart with it. Buy many 101 squads, equip them with 2 cases ( 6 recoiless or 5 johnsons) always use command team in front, the are giving a huge bonus + sniper + heal. If you are curious, i can send you some of 1impulse replays, he s kinda airborn pro player, and you ll see how this doc leave no chances to luft and stromtroopers together. Also donr forget that they have shortest reinforce time in compare with all axis elite units, thats why you will simply outnumber all inf.

What? Okay, of course, so you're saying I need to spend 90 munition for the johnsons, 8 CP for the veterancy upgrade, 2 CP for the fire nades, and 700 MP for the command team just to make a unit able to fight?

That doc REQUIRES munition to be any good. 101st airborne without their upgraded weapons are TERRIBLE. Sometimes I play noobs who think "Oh, airborne were good in the original so they must be good in bk mod!" and then I laugh as my pioneers kill them! My schwimmwagens and bikes can kill entire airborne squads in seconds! It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the squad costing 450MP! Holy shit! That's more than a brit infantry section! And thoes 2 Recoiless rifles they get on each drop? Pffffft. They miss every single shot.

And then you talk about dropping an MG and an AT squad. What the fuck, the airborne doc is so bad you need the "Airborne Observation Squad" to call in those heavy weapons. That alone costs 180 MP. Then the MG and At are both 300+ MP. Except a player doesn't ever have the resources to call in those heavy weapon MG and AT guns because he already spent 450 on the squad and 700 for the commander. That's 1150 MP!

For 1150 MP I could make 3 panzer 4's from blitz doc and kill every single airborne unit, KNOWING that your recoiless rifles are going to miss and your 82nd bazookas are going to bounce.

Please, send me the replay. I want to see how to play airborne and not get raped. I've never been able to play airborne, and every time I'm playing against an airborne player, I just laugh because I can kill his expensive units SO easily. Have you seen a 101st squad sprint up to a motorcycle, miss both RR shots, and get in close to try and kill the bike? Remember, the bike gets more accurate and does more damage the closer it is. So then the squad loses 5 men to the bike in seconds, then tries to retreat and gets chased down. It's hilarious, I do it all the time and I laugh because I know that my 220 MP bike can annihilate a 450 MP airborne squad.

About the planes, those cost so much munition! Munition you don't have because you spent them on weapon upgrades for your paratroopers! To top it off, the airborne's planes are worse than the RAF planes!

Warhawks97 · Post by **Warhawks97** » 20 Dec 2014, 17:30

Wake wrote:
Sukin-kot (SVT) wrote:Ohohoh, maaaaan, you cant imagine how damn you are not right. In late game 101 with upgrades (5 Johnsons + basic vet lvl + fire nades + command team aura) are kicking all axis asses and impossible to beat them with inf, they always at frontline giving a constant push, moreover this mg and guns drop, it works incredible - take point, drop double at and mg, take next, double at and mg and so on. 300 ammo thunderbolt patrool probaly most devastating ability in game, it will clear sector from everything, tigers, paks, inf.... You just need to "catch" how to play with this doc, its not "drop and go" like raf and luft units, need to be more smart with it. Buy many 101 squads, equip them with 2 cases ( 6 recoiless or 5 johnsons) always use command team in front, the are giving a huge bonus + sniper + heal. If you are curious, i can send you some of 1impulse replays, he s kinda airborn pro player, and you ll see how this doc leave no chances to luft and stromtroopers together. Also donr forget that they have shortest reinforce time in compare with all axis elite units, thats why you will simply outnumber all inf.

What? Okay, of course, so you're saying I need to spend 90 munition for the johnsons, 8 CP for the veterancy upgrade, 2 CP for the fire nades, and 700 MP for the command team just to make a unit able to fight?

That doc REQUIRES munition to be any good. 101st airborne without their upgraded weapons are TERRIBLE. Sometimes I play noobs who think "Oh, airborne were good in the original so they must be good in bk mod!" and then I laugh as my pioneers kill them! My schwimmwagens and bikes can kill entire airborne squads in seconds! It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the squad costing 450MP! Holy shit! That's more than a brit infantry section! And thoes 2 Recoiless rifles they get on each drop? Pffffft. They miss every single shot.

And then you talk about dropping an MG and an AT squad. What the fuck, the airborne doc is so bad you need the "Airborne Observation Squad" to call in those heavy weapons. That alone costs 180 MP. Then the MG and At are both 300+ MP. Except a player doesn't ever have the resources to call in those heavy weapon MG and AT guns because he already spent 450 on the squad and 700 for the commander. That's 1150 MP!

For 1150 MP I could make 3 panzer 4's from blitz doc and kill every single airborne unit, KNOWING that your recoiless rifles are going to miss and your 82nd bazookas are going to bounce.

Please, send me the replay. I want to see how to play airborne and not get raped. I've never been able to play airborne, and every time I'm playing against an airborne player, I just laugh because I can kill his expensive units SO easily. Have you seen a 101st squad sprint up to a motorcycle, miss both RR shots, and get in close to try and kill the bike? Remember, the bike gets more accurate and does more damage the closer it is. So then the squad loses 5 men to the bike in seconds, then tries to retreat and gets chased down. It's hilarious, I do it all the time and I laugh because I know that my 220 MP bike can annihilate a 450 MP airborne squad.

About the planes, those cost so much munition! Munition you don't have because you spent them on weapon upgrades for your paratroopers! To top it off, the airborne's planes are worse than the RAF planes!

each airborne squad alone is horrible cost ineffective and as you said i also kill them with volks and early luftwaffe inf kills them easily and its the same as with commandos. It simply needs a long time to get effective which is the prob of all US docs as they need first a lot CP to get usefull upgrades (mass production, training, vets etc.). But in late game when you have one Tankbuster 101st with 5-6 reccoiless and the others with lmgs you can take advantage of cheaper reinforcment and faster reinforcment and the unlimited number (+supply yard) combined with 101st HQ which uses the same vet 1 upgrade trick as Bk doc does with leader squad.

It should be said that SVT combines airborne often with priest. In fact the brits hold the line first emplacments, then first airborne comes to exploit enemie strenght and finally Priest cleans up the path. After that the 101st keeps pushing, finding arty targets and leaves axis no time to rest and to recover. Once axis army is killed by arty and all vet units dead the airborne outnumber axis and getting vet after vet for each squad and HQ squad. Also airborne players often pick up the axis lmgs whenever possible. Then and pretty much only then they are effective but alone and in early they get eaten by 20 mm´s, lmgs from axis basic units. Axis stormtooper and luftaffe have clear edge in early game but in late it can be somwehat hard to kill the airborne if used by a pro. Axis inf is way more cost effective at each squad (till now) and more user friendly.

As sukin said, airborne played by pro. Axis luftwaffe inf is deadly even when played by newbies which just drop one or two squads and nothing more than keep pressing reinforcment button. I hope it will be better now with new patch and reinforce cost.

btw, i did suggest to drop 101st build cost to 400 and reinforce cost up to 36 for same early/late game balance as commandos.

Viper · Post by **Viper** » 20 Dec 2014, 21:45

hello guys! i am totally new to these forums but i really like ur mod.. also these changes generally looks great. but i agree with what tiger1996 said about the ace units, there is no sense of reducing their veterancy points...... why is this?? this would be too bad specifically for the tiger ace, because this way it still needs to gain one more veterancy point to fire the accurate long shot which is unique!! what's the different between the ace and the normal tigers then? this won't limit the use of ace units but will make them less useful, and i bet if a new player joins playing the mod recently and then discovers out that his ace is only vet one without being able to use such abilities he will be pissed out.
I suggest adding a new model of a pz II G or just a pz 1 for the Wh faction to be early available in the game like a mobile MG or something.. ^_^ would be cool.

Post by **MarKr** » 21 Dec 2014, 00:30

Markr has shown us a new ability bar able to switch using incendiary and normal grenades, hold fire and stuff like that. Is it going to be added as well?

This is planed but will come later.

what's the different between the ace and the normal tigers then?

Well...Normal Tigers are build in Heavy Tank Factory, cost MP and sh*tload of fuel, come at veterancy lvl 0, come with no tank commander. Ace is a call-in (call in time is shorter than build time of a Tiger), cost only MP, comes with veterancy (even one level of veterancy gives it an edge), comes with tank commander with veterancy level...I would say there is quite a few differences

.

I suggest adding a new model of a pz II G or just a pz 1 for the Wh faction to be early available in the game like a mobile MG or something.. ^_^ would be cool.

Code: Select all

http://forum.bkmod.net/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=22

Warhawks97 · Post by **Warhawks97** » 21 Dec 2014, 01:20

seha wrote:hello guys! i am totally new to these forums but i really like ur mod.. also these changes generally looks great. but i agree with what tiger1996 said about the ace units, there is no sense of reducing their veterancy points...... why is this?? this would be too bad specifically for the tiger ace, because this way it still needs to gain one more veterancy point to fire the accurate long shot which is unique!! what's the different between the ace and the normal tigers then? this won't limit the use of ace units but will make them less useful, and i bet if a new player joins playing the mod recently and then discovers out that his ace is only vet one without being able to use such abilities he will be pissed out.
I suggest adding a new model of a pz II G or just a pz 1 for the Wh faction to be early available in the game like a mobile MG or something.. ^_^ would be cool.

my favorit option is to remove all aces and only skill will give you an ace...

The Difference was: Normal Tiger with commander (vet 0) and stormtooper with stg: 1690 MP, 175 ammo and and 155 fuel Ace with stormtooper with stgs: 1750 mp... thats all.....even with only vet 1 and vet 3 commander its a very good price.

My other favorit option: Remove persh ace (but first if the tanks in teamfights are balanced. E.G. some gun stats, quality vs quantity, TH doc spam. Remove church ace and let it be normal crocc vet 0 for 800-900 mp.

Leave Tiger ace coming with vet 2 and single call in (only once available).

Mobile MG plattform: schwimmagen? scout car? Also the 20 mm vehicles (skdfz 250 with 20 mm, sdkfz 234 with 20 mm etc) are already as good as a Tank I or II would be lol. So right at the beginning would be OP and after that you get the others.... so it would have no sense at all. The short barreld Tank IV do bother some of us already as they are from 1940 and not 44/45.

Krieger Blitzer · Post by **Krieger Blitzer** » 21 Dec 2014, 15:26

Warhawks said:-
" My other favorit option: Remove persh ace (but first if the tanks in teamfights are balanced. E.G. some gun stats, quality vs quantity, TH doc spam. Remove church ace and let it be normal crocc vet 0 for 800-900 mp.

Leave Tiger ace coming with vet 2 and single call in (only once available). "

@Warhawks;
Really happy to see u finally writing this!

That's almost the same (but still with few differences

) of what I kept suggesting u, Wolf and the whole community with since I joined u on the old forums...

mg42slo · Post by **mg42slo** » 21 Dec 2014, 21:19

Some very nice changes, most importantly victor for US inf doctrine, and fixing the KCH and grenadiers. We will definitely see more of the later now. If posible add a stuka fix, just damage and aoe the spread is to be expected.

Thx for all your work before the holidays.

crimax · Post by **crimax** » 22 Dec 2014, 11:52

I generally like the increased reinforcements costs about Luft and Raf units.
I agree also to the decreased call-in costs for infantry units.

This will force players to play better with their infantry units to get VET, but on the other hand, we will see a bit more infantry spam ...
Not a big problem, considering how much artillery is still present in this mod ...

"So touching" work on Terror doc Wolf ... a fast way to "personalize" Terror Doc without really work on it

We will see what happen ......

Warhawks97 · Post by **Warhawks97** » 22 Dec 2014, 15:02

The 57 mm pak reload time will be decreased but does it affects also the 57 mm Pak halftrack?

Also i have some concerns regarding commandos and BK doc stormtrooper. Esspecially early untill late game where commandos get their weapo upgrades. The Stormtrooper are not only cheaper to build but also cost less in reinforcment. In late game commandos may can compete then with stortmooper but before weapon and training upgrades i see some problems as stormtooper with early stgs, leader squad and schrecks and decent tank support will outmatch commandos right now. So since stormtooper have their weapons and abilities earlier you should consider to keep the balance between them and even if it would be a reinforcment cost increase for stormtooper from 37-39/40. I doubt that this change would last longer than 5 minutes.

Edit:

I just realised that it is called 4.8.5. but shouldnt it be 4.8.4? It confuses me a bit and launcher says that 4.8.3 is being played now. I think 4.8.4 would be more correct i did not unlearn to count till 5.

Chase · Post by **Chase** » 23 Dec 2014, 05:09

Wake ^^

jonnyyankee · Post by **jonnyyankee** » 24 Dec 2014, 22:12

I want to make a commentary its about motorcycle i played alot vs Ai i know this mod is for pvp but u cant put the motorcycle in 260 mp because the Wehrmacht make alot of that and its so hard to win its just a advice thanks so much

V13dweller · Post by **V13dweller** » 26 Dec 2014, 06:01

The same applies to the US and jeeps and the British Daimler, but this is because the AI has access to much more resources than the player, in normal I think it was a 50% increase than the player, and it stacks higher and higher with difficulty increases.

Post by **Wolf** » 28 Dec 2014, 20:17

For brave testers:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/chp2e ... _Patch.exe

Let us know please.
Only fixes will be made as hotfix if needed.

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