Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.3 Patch

[Krieger Blitzer]

Yup, but when u cleverly cover ur tanks with HE Shermans.. inf... Scotts or Crusaders and emplacements; I will then need to use rockets + Schrecks which is the only effective way to advance for Axis where it should become by using their heavy tanks more times on the contrary in order to get less campy games being more dynamic and based on more microing skills! Yet until this point here is hopefully achieved we would then forever keep going over and over again for more arty parties

Axis tanks are really in need for better ranges. After it; we could think of nerfing PanzerSchrecks maybe somehow!!

[Warhawks97]

But not as long shot for all with 90 range. That would cause more campy games as it would solve. Once vet all axis tanks would parking in a line and use all few seconds 50 ammo ability to sniper any allied tank. So a general range increase of +5 to 65-70 range would make axis tanks more effective in offense without making them "Uncounterable" as allis would be able with ambush and command vehicles to defend themselfs.

But long shot for all would cause more camp games (for one side: axis) as it would solve, causing disbalance and would highly reduce the ammount of skill required once the tank has vet 1 (or as you want, at default for tiger).

Basic range buff ok to 65 till 70 for the 88 L/71.


Also just as you mentioned: Firefly, jacks covered by HE shermans, crusaders etc being impossible to attack you hopefully know what teamplay it requires already and which cost allied payed to get such an force. Alone the jacks has the cost almost of a Panther. Also you can also ambush Nashorns, Jagdpanzers etc and cover them with AA tanks, HMG´s, elite inf like gebirgs etc. Thats then also impossible to attack as allied.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I never said I 'want it' by default for Tigers. I ONLY said it should according to realism... However that this would surely break the balance! SO I never asked for that one.. +5 range may not be enough or too OP sometimes; I would rather accurate long shot and not for 'ALL' as I also never said for "all" anyhow. Just Panthers too!! Tigers, Panthers, KT with veterancy levels and ammo to be required.

[Butterkeks]

I never said I 'want it' by default for Tigers. I ONLY said it should according to realism... However that this would surely break the balance! SO I never asked for that one.. +5 range may not be enough or too OP sometimes; I would rather accurate long shot and not for 'ALL' as I also never said for "all" anyhow. Just Panthers too!! Tigers, Panthers, KT with veterancy levels and ammo to be required.

I understood that before

Well discussion is obsolete, Markr denied it already. But I hope you understand our concerns now, Tiger.

[Warhawks97]

I never said I 'want it' by default for Tigers. I ONLY said it should according to realism... However that this would surely break the balance! SO I never asked for that one.. +5 range may not be enough or too OP sometimes; I would rather accurate long shot and not for 'ALL' as I also never said for "all" anyhow. Just Panthers too!! Tigers, Panthers, KT with veterancy levels and ammo to be required.

your favorit tanks. Leaving Jagdpanther, Elephant which in the battle of kursk got credited with a massive ammount of tank kills from a very long range and with nashorn and Jagdpanther purely designed to defeat enemie armor from great distance. Sure, those dont need it, only panther and tigers -.-. Then you just need to get vet 1 or 2 (one defensive battle) and you can start killing enemies with little skill. And allies will dare even less to attack because they know that a fail would result probably in a vet 2 panther/Tiger which means they can write instantly GG into chat.

So slight basic range boost would show up the real german strenght in terms of guns and armored warfare but making it not impossible for allied to defend themselfs against it and it would still require skill as axis causing no camping.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Ya, the discussion might be obsolete actually... But even if MarKr denies it from his side; which yet must be put into consideration for sure! However that still this doesn't mean absolutely nothing may change considering this subject in the future and btw I love the JPs and the SP even more perhaps

I understand ur opinion regarding this.. but JPs can ambush like paks being able to shoot several shells before being finally detected while having +5 range already too with such a very strong gun!

[Warhawks97]

Ya, the discussion might be obsolete actually... But even if MarKr denies it from his side; which yet must be put into consideration for sure! However that still this doesn't mean absolutely nothing may change considering this subject in the future and btw I love the JPs and the SP even more perhaps

I understand ur opinion regarding this.. but JPs can ambush like paks being able to shoot several shells before being finally detected while having +5 range already too with such a very strong gun!

so for KT range is ok, But for Jagdpanther and elephant its not.... interesting how you consider some stuff as OP, others not.

just saying that a general slight range advantage for some axis tanks would be less balance breaking as long shots with like 90 range. Also more fair among axis tanks giving axis a more "specific touch" of using armor or late game armor at least.

[DaŇjeL_SK]

Congratulations... u guys finally fucked this mode up... thx Hawks, thx Tiger...
... btw. pls answer me few logic questions:
- why is now allies infantry much cheaper and better than axis ? ... we were loosing elite units against basic infantry
- pak40 or panzer4 (penetrate 96mm under 30°) can't penetrate churchill mk4 with 102mm armor... BUT... churchill mkIV with 5pdr (penetrate 86-94mm under 0° - depends on length of gun and ammo) penetrate panzer4 J by every shot... panzer 4 J and H have 80mm.

[Krieger Blitzer]

This 490 patch or now the so called 493.. was simply such a great step forward regarding both the balance as well as generally the perfection of the Bk mod from any serious kind of bugs and glitches... Although of all the mess that has been there with it before the official release hopefully!

Plus that as I can see, all these complaints of which u r conducting us now.. are actually nothing but just a 'claim' that somehow the game has recently become much more favoring the Allies unlike in the past times perhaps.
However that I guess u do very well realize already that from my own side at least; I would never be more sympathetic for the Allies anyhow while excluding the Axis also on the other hand, through any possible patch!!

So I think u shouldn't blame on me even if the Allies were at any point much stronger (which is not really true currently anyways) as I am probably considered more as to be an Axis player btw...

[DaŇjeL_SK]

I play all nations and all docs... and for me... 4.8.8 was better... see u in next patch... maybe

[Tor]

If developers nerf Terror i start play only USA)
After nerfs i cant play blitz doc) stormtroopers die faster than teror grens, they realy have more HP? pz-4 ? i stop build them.

[Krieger Blitzer]

I play all nations and all docs... and for me... 4.8.8 was better... see u in next patch... maybe

How 488 was much better?????!!!!! The indestructible 107mm mortar emplacements were much better????!!!! The over performing naked 88s were much better???!!! The fragile Churchills were much better than now??!! Tread breaker abilities were much better?! Huh, these were just few examples.. but on and on are also remaining to be mentioned...

If developers nerf Terror i start play only USA)
After nerfs i cant play blitz doc) stormtroopers die faster than teror grens, they realy have more HP? pz-4 ? i stop build them.

Well Zadoff, to be honest.. I clearly wasn't a supporter anyhow of delaying the evasive maneuvers ability for ALL the Storms units like this way now. As that at least both the leader and the demo squads had to be still able to crawl even without the veterancy training unlock; however that this for me either doesn't look like to be a huge nerf yet actually! And don't forget that u can still hide when in cover since the start using any Storm squad too btw

[Tor]

Well Zadoff, to be honest.. I clearly wasn't a supporter anyhow of delaying the evasive maneuvers ability for ALL the Storms units like this way now. As that at least both the leader and the demo squads had to be still able to crawl even without the veterancy training unlock; however that this for me either doesn't look like to be a huge nerf yet actually! And don't forget that u can still hide when in cover since the start using any Storm squad too btw

And why this storms need my? i have terror grens with free Mp-44, with flame grens.
I have nebels with cheaper firing (50vs85) i have cheaper and better than tiger panther g.
In blitz what i have today? leader squad, healing car and ostwind, i cant win with this, maybe i am noob.

[Warhawks97]

Congratulations... u guys finally fucked this mode up... thx Hawks, thx Tiger...
... btw. pls answer me few logic questions:
- why is now allies infantry much cheaper and better than axis ? ... we were loosing elite units against basic infantry
- pak40 or panzer4 (penetrate 96mm under 30°) can't penetrate churchill mk4 with 102mm armor... BUT... churchill mkIV with 5pdr (penetrate 86-94mm under 0° - depends on length of gun and ammo) penetrate panzer4 J by every shot... panzer 4 J and H have 80mm.

oh yeah, Grens (basic inf) shredding commandos and SAS, US AB 101st die to volksgrens, Volks with lmg34 can shred rangers. These things had always been that way. And what got changed for inf? The M1 got buffed at ranges from 25-35. That was all. the KT became massively stronger and lot more resistant to US 76 guns. The US HVAP round lost the damage bonus (which was 25%). The Rangers cost more after cheaper in upgrade.

Ive been playing axis inf just as i´ve been used to. But its funny... Since ages the most expensive allis elites got simply shred away like flies (e.g AB doc was unplayable for a long time due to horrible cost efficency ratio). AB´s get shred unless they outnumber axis basic grens in a 3,5:1 ratio, commandos (Sten)- unless they got all the vet upgrades- had been nothing more than overpriced trash inf which got shred by everything and ripped into pieces easily and they still get shred. Atm i always only see enfield commandos and very rarely sten commandos.

BUT OMG... as soon as an axis inf squad without any cover and heading towards and allied unit which has best cover and rifles and LMGs is being killed then its fucking omg Nerf allis inf. Srsly, Did you never ever realize that pretty much every expensive allied inf squad got shred by pretty much everything? Just people learned to use commandos and rangers smarter (using cover and smoke from mortars for example) and supporting them properly. Maybe you should try it with axis inf as well and they belong afterall to the strongest infantry units.

COST DO NOT MEAN TO AUTOMATICALLY WIN A FIGHT. You cant just set cost vs cost to see who will win. Play quartet then. But as i said, from a superior position i did shred SAS with volks squad when those tried to attack and when i had lmg and better cover.


The churchills got overbuffed a bit. But it will be fixed next patch. The Tigers and Panthers will kill them quite easily. Also the 75 mm L/48 is becoming more effective again. But for a very long time they had been absolutely usless and RE never played, being considered as absolutely useless. The 75 mm penetrated 96 mm at 30 degree at 500 meters but at ranges beyond 500 meters the pen chance dropped against churchill tanks. But axis guns have just a slight penetration drop in BK mod (unlike allis) so making them effective at close but less effective at range is a lot harder to do. Churchill MK IV had a 6 pdr (57 mm pak) which penetrated 76-83 mm at 500 meters at 30 degree angel using basic APCBC rounds and the weak version of the 6 pdr (L/43). The better 6 pdr (L/50) even up to 86 mm at 30 degree and with CW APDS rounds even 104 mm at 1000 meters and 30 degree angel.

Also, if you dont like the MK VI we can replace it with MK VII. Basically the basic churchill in CW doc should be the MK VII as it was with 1422 numbers build (+500 crocc versions) the most used churchill in 44 or rather the basic CW churchill tank during 44 and 45. So how would you like it? Remove the MK VI and replace it wit normal MK VII with 152-172 mm armor. Would that be better? The MK VI actually didnt exist (200 tanks build so an uimportant churchill version) really.

The church 6 pdr is probably using special AP rounds.

but as i said, the penetration chance for axis 75 mm L/48 will be almost doubled again early churchills so churchill with 6 pdr and tank IV have pretty equal chances to penetrate each other.

And why this storms need my? i have terror grens with free Mp-44, with flame grens.
I have nebels with cheaper firing (50vs85) i have cheaper and better than tiger panther g.
In blitz what i have today? leader squad, healing car and ostwind, i cant win with this, maybe i am noob.

Ever thought that Terror is simply a crazy doc which combines good inf with best tanks with strong 0 CP arty, VT and off map arty?

And storm inf is still strong. The is pretty cheap, can ambush, different weapon loadouts, very durable, vet 1 with unlock, spawn with 1 stg, lots of nice abilties, later crawl, ambush capabilities and has also my absolut favorit leader support. I manage to kill alone with my leader squad over 100 enemies which is not even a rare phenomen. The doc is flexibel retreat/Heal/deploy vehicle which no other faction or doc has. Also they vet up quite fast and with vet 1 unlock you have instantly vet 1 leader squad and vet 1 storms. And when leader squad is vet 5 which is not that hard and the normal squads veted then they are most immortal infantry in game. You can use offmap mortar from leader squad without any unlock and while crawling. Terror is easier to play coz of quickly deployed inf with stgs for free and lots of artillery support but BK doc is still favored by my. The inf with the usefull leader squad and cheap tank IV and ostwind support is very powerfull still.

[MarKr]

Congratulations... u guys finally fucked this mode up... thx Hawks, thx Tiger...
... btw. pls answer me few logic questions:
- why is now allies infantry much cheaper and better than axis ? ... we were loosing elite units against basic infantry
- pak40 or panzer4 (penetrate 96mm under 30°) can't penetrate churchill mk4 with 102mm armor... BUT... churchill mkIV with 5pdr (penetrate 86-94mm under 0° - depends on length of gun and ammo) penetrate panzer4 J by every shot... panzer 4 J and H have 80mm.

When I tested the Churchill changes the 6 pndr was not able to frontally penetrate PIV H/J at least not reliably. It bounced 6 or7 shots in a row before penetration. It only became effective with veterancy, TC and AP ammo or I had to drive up close but that way opponent also has better penetration against Churchills, Schrecks have good chance at any range and Goliaths have very good stats agains Churchills... One almost never sees those but that doesn't mean it cannot be used. So yeah they have strong armor but shitty weapons so... 75mm L48 strugle against those but anything stronger has much better chance and every Axis doc has something that can penetrate those reliably.

[Tor]

Ever thought that Terror is simply a crazy doc which combines good inf with best tanks with strong 0 CP arty, VT and off map arty?

And storm inf is still strong. The is pretty cheap, can ambush, different weapon loadouts, very durable, vet 1 with unlock, spawn with 1 stg, lots of nice abilties, later crawl, ambush capabilities and has also my absolut favorit leader support. I manage to kill alone with my leader squad over 100 enemies which is not even a rare phenomen. The doc is flexibel retreat/Heal/deploy vehicle which no other faction or doc has. Also they vet up quite fast and with vet 1 unlock you have instantly vet 1 leader squad and vet 1 storms. And when leader squad is vet 5 which is not that hard and the normal squads veted then they are most immortal infantry in game. You can use offmap mortar from leader squad without any unlock and while crawling. Terror is easier to play coz of quickly deployed inf with stgs for free and lots of artillery support but BK doc is still favored by my. The inf with the usefull leader squad and cheap tank IV and ostwind support is very powerfull still

2vs2 i see tigers, pz-4 ans storms, end of story, i win or lose with that, than i start think about leader squad i already win or lose, with 0 vet leader just rifles witout panzerschreck, about mortar strike, officer have much better.
I dont see vet-1 unlock, i dont see 4 vet infantry, most time heal car, infantry just retreat to base, in terror i dont see LOTS OF ARTILLERY, where you find ammo for stuka? and all times i dont have CP and ammo for firestorms.

[Warhawks97]

Officer has arty strike but officer is a lot more vulnerable and cant hide. Also if you want forward retreat point you need to set the flag but thats not flexible. With BK doc i can go with leader squad somewhere to boost my inf and use the off map mortar strike and at the same time i can move the retreat HT to the next position. The chance to keep a veted 4 men leader squad alive is easier as a single officer which means you most likely keep your veterancy boost. And when i am not attacking with them i can put them smart in ambushes which makes them very usefull in different situations which grens for example cant do. With terror you might have not always mun for all at the same time but if you prepare for a larger attack saving some ammo and MP then you can turn a game by using KT, walking stuka and firestorm at the same time.

[Butterkeks]

Congratulations... u guys finally fucked this mode up... thx Hawks, thx Tiger...
... btw. pls answer me few logic questions:
- why is now allies infantry much cheaper and better than axis ? ... we were loosing elite units against basic infantry
- pak40 or panzer4 (penetrate 96mm under 30°) can't penetrate churchill mk4 with 102mm armor... BUT... churchill mkIV with 5pdr (penetrate 86-94mm under 0° - depends on length of gun and ammo) penetrate panzer4 J by every shot... panzer 4 J and H have 80mm.

If we see people comlaining that they can't just simply rush into allis inf anymore and have to use their units more intelligent, then we know the patch was good

Well I guess Danjel also never thought about using his units wisely, micro manage them etc. and not just blob them and send them into enemy HMGs without loosing a man.

Now you also need a bit more skill for Axis? Oh yeah this mod is soooooo fucked......NOT!



Funny thing: I recently started playing RE doc and everything Danjel states is simply wrong. My churchill bounced very often (like Markr said) vs Pz IV and my churchills got often damaged by PaK40 (not as often as before, but it still has a chance).
Regarding inf... Well Hawks already said it.

[Butterkeks]

Ever thought that Terror is simply a crazy doc which combines good inf with best tanks with strong 0 CP arty, VT and off map arty?

And storm inf is still strong. The is pretty cheap, can ambush, different weapon loadouts, very durable, vet 1 with unlock, spawn with 1 stg, lots of nice abilties, later crawl, ambush capabilities and has also my absolut favorit leader support. I manage to kill alone with my leader squad over 100 enemies which is not even a rare phenomen. The doc is flexibel retreat/Heal/deploy vehicle which no other faction or doc has. Also they vet up quite fast and with vet 1 unlock you have instantly vet 1 leader squad and vet 1 storms. And when leader squad is vet 5 which is not that hard and the normal squads veted then they are most immortal infantry in game. You can use offmap mortar from leader squad without any unlock and while crawling. Terror is easier to play coz of quickly deployed inf with stgs for free and lots of artillery support but BK doc is still favored by my. The inf with the usefull leader squad and cheap tank IV and ostwind support is very powerfull still

2vs2 i see tigers, pz-4 ans storms, end of story, i win or lose with that, than i start think about leader squad i already win or lose, with 0 vet leader just rifles witout panzerschreck, about mortar strike, officer have much better.
I dont see vet-1 unlock, i dont see 4 vet infantry, most time heal car, infantry just retreat to base, in terror i dont see LOTS OF ARTILLERY, where you find ammo for stuka? and all times i dont have CP and ammo for firestorms.

Well Tor...
Sorry but this is simply your fault.
If you don't use leader squad and don't have at least vet 4 squads, well then you simply use them wrong. You can't say that they got "Overnerfed" simply because you have now problems with them. Ever thought about the fact that players who use the HT and leader squad had simply a way to big advantage? That as Ally you simply couldn't counter storms that were suddenly jumping up right in front of your feet?

Regarding Terror Arty:
It has Neblers, Nebler VT, Stuka, Firestorm and V1 (I consider it as offmap arty).
So with Neblers and one PGren squad you are able to shoot 4 times in a few seconds with Neblers, VT costs only 35 ammo which makes it super cheap plus the Neblers then have no range limit.
Stuka is expensive, but when this baby hits something it's nearly everytime destroyed. You can even use it to hunt down Priests.

[Tor]

Ever thought that Terror is simply a crazy doc which combines good inf with best tanks with strong 0 CP arty, VT and off map arty?

And storm inf is still strong. The is pretty cheap, can ambush, different weapon loadouts, very durable, vet 1 with unlock, spawn with 1 stg, lots of nice abilties, later crawl, ambush capabilities and has also my absolut favorit leader support. I manage to kill alone with my leader squad over 100 enemies which is not even a rare phenomen. The doc is flexibel retreat/Heal/deploy vehicle which no other faction or doc has. Also they vet up quite fast and with vet 1 unlock you have instantly vet 1 leader squad and vet 1 storms. And when leader squad is vet 5 which is not that hard and the normal squads veted then they are most immortal infantry in game. You can use offmap mortar from leader squad without any unlock and while crawling. Terror is easier to play coz of quickly deployed inf with stgs for free and lots of artillery support but BK doc is still favored by my. The inf with the usefull leader squad and cheap tank IV and ostwind support is very powerfull still

2vs2 i see tigers, pz-4 ans storms, end of story, i win or lose with that, than i start think about leader squad i already win or lose, with 0 vet leader just rifles witout panzerschreck, about mortar strike, officer have much better.
I dont see vet-1 unlock, i dont see 4 vet infantry, most time heal car, infantry just retreat to base, in terror i dont see LOTS OF ARTILLERY, where you find ammo for stuka? and all times i dont have CP and ammo for firestorms.

Well Tor...
Sorry but this is simply your fault.
If you don't use leader squad and don't have at least vet 4 squads, well then you simply use them wrong. You can't say that they got "Overnerfed" simply because you have now problems with them. Ever thought about the fact that players who use the HT and leader squad had simply a way to big advantage? That as Ally you simply couldn't counter storms that were suddenly jumping up right in front of your feet?

Regarding Terror Arty:
It has Neblers, Nebler VT, Stuka, Firestorm and V1 (I consider it as offmap arty).
So with Neblers and one PGren squad you are able to shoot 4 times in a few seconds with Neblers, VT costs only 35 ammo which makes it super cheap plus the Neblers then have no range limit.
Stuka is expensive, but when this baby hits something it's nearly everytime destroyed. You can even use it to hunt down Priests.

Fault? i dont see so many infantry, most times i need more panzerschreck, 90% games about 30 min.
Games look like i get tiger and win, or i lose tiger and lose.
I dont see goals for nebel VT, super slow, i dont need it most times, i use normal firing for protect points.
Very rarely see priests, people most times play RAF or use 3 OP 75mm cars, 25 ammo for firing looks like cheat.
And i cant hunt down priest, i dont see stuka with good vet, maybe 2 vet after win, just because i dont have ammo for that, without it it's inaccurate, 345 ammo for killing 1 priest, no thanks.

[Warhawks97]

Fault? i dont see so many infantry, most times i need more panzerschreck, 90% games about 30 min.
Games look like i get tiger and win, or i lose tiger and lose.
I dont see goals for nebel VT, super slow, i dont need it most times, i use normal firing for protect points.
Very rarely see priests, people most times play RAF or use 3 OP 75mm cars, 25 ammo for firing looks like cheat.
And i cant hunt down priest, i dont see stuka with good vet, maybe 2 vet after win, just because i dont have ammo for that, without it it's inaccurate, 345 ammo for killing 1 priest, no thanks.

I do see terror player using VT. During attacks you can quickly activate it on a mortar, pak, concentration of enemie forces or at their retreat point. Its an offensive ability, not defensive actually.

I see lots of games without Tigers and axis still winning. More often no Tigers at all than Tigers. And a loss of tiger doesnt mean automatically a lose. Ive seen games in which like several Panthers and tigers got destroyed but axis still won.


If you want to see veted walking stukas then watch games of players which use them correctly like sukin and some others. The problem why walking stukas do fail is again the wrong use of them - which again like 90% of the users are doing- resulting in a "bad performence":

1. They fire into fog of war and often even for defensive purposes and hitting nothing because there is no enemie anymore.
2. They build them even when the enemie has almost no units anymore but they dont know that because they have 0 intelligence and reconassaince and no cloue how much the enemie has lost and how much the enemie can actually have.
3. They build too many of them. Sample: A Player has 1000 MP in reserve, 250 ammo and an income of lets say 40 ammo per min. Instead using like 400 MP to upgrade ammo points and using only one (not two) walking stuka+reccon and inf combined they rather build two walking stuka for 800 MP, wasting the 250 ammo storage for two brainless walking stuka salvos into the fog of war, killing 2 soldiers and having then no more ammo and writting into chat: "I spend (stupidly) 230 ammo into walking stuka and i killed nothing (because i was tooo fucked up brain dead noob to use reccons and combined the stuka with an attack). Its a usless too expensive unit!". But the funny thing is, ive seen many times players using calli which cost 8 CP, 800 MP and 95 ammo for a barrage and they killed just 2 or 3 men in a salvo but never complaining about a too expensive cost. They simply accepted that they fired the wrong position.



How to use units like nebler, walking stuka and calli most effectively:
1. During combined attack.
2. Using recons
3. used against the strongest defended enemie point, not against the first resistance you encounter which you can kill easy unit maneuvers.

Sure it makes not always sense to get one but if there is a mix of enemie units, paks, emplacments and you use it with reccons during attack you will see wonders what this unit is capabale off.




In 30 min games the mid game units are more important. Shermans, tank IV´s, grens, storms, vehicles, medium paks and light arty.



Also till recently allied always had to use RA doc in teamfights to get these 75 mm HT arty to kill all the early axis pak/MG/mobile MG defense. I am glad that now RAF and RE doc is able to do that as well with arty cromwell and churchills and that we see less often RA doc now in games.

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

By the way, i ve never seen RA in pvp since patch came out.

[Krieger Blitzer]

Panzer played it with me recently ^^

[MarKr]

By the way, i ve never seen RA in pvp since patch came out.

I'm kinda unsure...in your opinion, is that good or bad?

[Sukin-kot (SVT)]

Good of course:)