Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.3 Patch

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Warhawks97
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.3 Patch

Postby Warhawks97 » 06 Nov 2015, 23:30

Zooks schrecks got not touched. Just inf doc has 2 zooks in AT squads instead three, therefore M6A3C not only in AT squad but also others. So nothing got nerfed here. Just one squad weaker for a buff of all others.

88 got changed. The naked one nerfed, the emplaced buffed. There was no reason that the naked performs so much better as the emplaced one.

Paks changed in order to increase the game dynamic. They got more expensive as they had been over cost effective a bit. They were very cheap but very deadly even against the biggest tanks. The axis paks got weaker against churchills. That was in order to provide alternatives to RA doc as defensive breaking doctrine. RE was often a must have as it was the only faction able to crack the very early stage of light/medium paks and scout cares/HMG´s. But also RE was thought as a breakthrough doctrine but before churchill buff this doc was everything but offensive, not even to mention the word "breakthrough".

The US 76 pak received a larger nerf against Kingtiger (and smallers on others).

Allied showing a more "realistic" behaviour or at least the US faction does. They are now relying a lot more on 57 pak in mid stage as medium AT as it also got buffed few patches ago (US usually skipped instantly over to 76 paks due to cheap cost of it and horrible performence of 57 mm) and a lot more on M10´s rather than 76 pak. US heavy anti tank got simply provided by TD´s and generally mechanized units rather than by handpushed 76 paks. The side effect is that inf and AB players do build tank depot nowdays which results automatically to a increased use of combined arms for US players (like: when i have a production building anyway, then i do use all the units of it). While once no AB or inf player ever though about using shermans (they often didnt even build supply yard) and M10 i now do see them a lot more often in use by inf and AB players. Thus allied team (at least US players) do now make profit from having fuel points taken. Also M10 are being more likely used to quickly kill an Anti inf tank/vehicle as the 76 paks did.



Not an offense but you are probably the most famous pak user. Ive never seen so many paks build by a single player at once. I mean as standard you got 3 paks (small, mediums, big) as standard but not seldomly up to 5 at once before you went into any offensive stage and before tiering up. So it might be that the slight pak changes did hurt you most.

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crimax
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.3 Patch

Postby crimax » 07 Nov 2015, 08:15

Warhawks97 wrote:Not an offense but you are probably the most famous pak user. Ive never seen so many paks build by a single player at once. I mean as standard you got 3 paks (small, mediums, big) as standard but not seldomly up to 5 at once before you went into any offensive stage and before tiering up. So it might be that the slight pak changes did hurt you most.


This last assumption is enough, to understand who I am talking with ...

You have the arrogance to define the way to play someone has, just typing 2 stripes of text. Incredible. Post the video where I built more than 3 paks, please.

About 88's, I have nothing more to tell you. You and the other show-man got your point. Thank you.

About shreks, I will not reply cause am sure you are kidding .... I hope ....
About zooks, I have a question ... By your point of view, the decision to reduce to 2 zooks, just to the weakest doctrine against tanks, was a smart thing ?
Did you ever noticed that shreks are more effective than zooks ?

You talk about static game and dynamic game. So, paks were the real reason :)
Artillery spam and cheap emplacementes were not the real reason.
Don't you see recently massive camping abuse ? No ?
Ah no, I remeber, you are against limitations ... but for things you want to notice only......

BUT, what I write till now it's about the balancing ....

What I really care is that this is a game .... technical explanations are bullshit at some point.....

The only thing I know is that, before update, infantry players had a chance to play. Now it's gone .... In the name of "yours Dynamics" .....
Company Of Heroes is the 'water gun version' of Blitzkrieg Mod" (Heinz Wilhelm Guderian, 1939)

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Tiger1996
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.3 Patch

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Nov 2015, 11:18

I would honestly repeat what Hawks said about the handheld AT weapons.. they weren't really touched! Even the 2nd RL will be back but surely as an upgrade.
Hawks perhaps forgot to tell u that the US AT squad also got a slight price reduction as a result... But how exactly do u think that Schrecks were nerfed?? By removing the tread breaker abilities I assume?! That was a general true logic nerf to all the handheld AT weapons I would say.
Not to mention btw that there was a poll about the 3rd Zooka removal after all.. just like that one of which we had recently considering the RAF snipers inside the Kangaroo for example!

The only thing I could agree with is what Crimax said about 88s, yes.. they were a bit too overnerfed... Therefore they shall recieve only a 'slight' cost reduction; Luft pioneers would be cheaper as well.

Certain mobile paks got some few price increments... But again Crimax is right though! The emplacement versions weren't touched anyhow.. however that I believe that this has to be tuned! So here I could agree with u that the main issue is actually the emplacements now. It's also quite very stupid to see that the MG nests are in fact cheaper than the MG squads!!

Regarding arty.. I think that some off map barrage call-ins have to be more expensive.

Anyways, probably just wait until the next year.. I could say that there will be good news as we are all hoping it maybe on the upcoming 2016...

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Warhawks97
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.3 Patch

Postby Warhawks97 » 07 Nov 2015, 16:14

Again you got me wrong. And yes i do have replays i could show. Quite a few but from older versions so we would have to "patch back" to see it. Like in a game at goodwood with 3 paks in one line on a very small area (alone center fuel point till street three paks) and later five paks as BK doc before the third building was up. So yeah, you have your specific way to play which was/is based a lot on AT guns and thats alright. But still paks had not been in line in terms of cost efficency. The capabilties of even cheap 230 MP paks to knock out very costly units easily was simply a way wrong. The cost efficency of defensive weapon such as many AT guns had been unique in BK actually and didnt appear elsewhere in coh etc.

The schrecks and zook performences are untouched, thats what i meant. The US AT squad got cheaper and inf doc has now M6A3C in all units. So you gave up to M6A3C zooks in return for getting endless new.

In fact the AT power got better for inf doc simply as you got a lot more better zooks in total. Attacking axis armor with inf doc has always been a pain. Even when AT squads had 6 M6A3C zooks a blobb of two AT squads with 6 better zooks and several ranger squads with normal zooks failed more often than not against a Panther/inf with lmg/stg combo. Inf doc always had issues in attacking tanks but not that much in defending. Thats why it is important for inf doc not to lose ground anymore in late games.

For inf doc each single ranger squad got improved AT power. Every ranger squad has now more or less 100% pen chance vs Panzer IV with M6A3C missiles while once only AT squad zooks could do that.

Not sure but here for example i´ve seen you playing inf doc quite often without supply yard. Combine that with ranger mass production and ranger vet upgrade and thus endless M6A3C missiles and you might steamrole everything in late game just with rangers.

Furthermore you can try using the M10. The Heat round is one of the best US anti tank shells. It has limited range and one shot cost 75 ammo but the penetration power against panthers etc is quite high (if not even guranteed). Lots of players have introduced M10´s in their games as inf (or AB doc).


I am aware that AT gun nests are being untouched currently. I did request a cost increase for those as well or at least the axis and US one. The Axis from def doc up to 330 MP, the US one up to 350 MP and the HE rounds of the normal one added. The emplacment as such would become more valuable able to provide a defense against tanks and inf but therefore by far less spamable.

I also would support a slight damage increase of all arty types against emplacments (75 mm arty, 150 nebler, 105 and 150/155 mm arty, calli etc). That way arty would be more often used against emplacments instead against vehicles and infantry.

About luftwaffe and the "88 issue" i talked often enough. The 88´s are ok as they are, esspecially def doc where they also function as howitzer. We just cant make them cheaper than howitzers while filling also roles of AA/AT/AI weapons. What could justify an 88 to be cheaper than a 25 pdr which has even less powerfull calibre as arty unit?

Making luft pios cheaper as Luftwaffes core construction and repair unit would make a lot more sense, even at cost from beint not deployed by air but instead cheap off map call in unit.


Emplacments again are untouched in cost and also in efficency so far (except 88 and 107 mortar).


Also crimax note pls, that inf doc is afterall my favorit US doc. I dont know any other doctrine that can get and maintain a 200+ popcap army in a 2 vs 2 game. I am currently playing inf doc very often as armor doc with shermans and M10´s. The combo off quickly called 105 arty strike, early available shermans backed by M10´s and later Jumbo shermans makes this doc a better armor doc as the armor doc, lmao. At least the tactical combination possibilities when being played as armored offensive doctrine is even higher as those of armor doc where i get checkmated a lot easier. I am currently willing to pay the bill to have shermans 100 MP more expensive than in armor doc in exchange for a lot better tactically use and combination.

And you know what? In my last 3 vs 3 at fields of engagment it was whiteLoki with inf doc who won the game by leading all our tank assaults with Jumbo sherman which steamroled quite many axis defenses (though with some luck but still).

People here are even saying that inf doc is the strongest doctrine of all which in certain circumstances might be true. The doc gets weaker the larger a map gets. As for the US i do think its the strongest doctrine the US has currently in game. Armor struggles badly against defenses, AB has problems in the early stage and esspecially when axis start using AA tanks supported by stg/schreck inf. Just inf doc is capable of dealing with various threats and finding a way through kinds of larger axis defenses.


Axis armor can be a pain for all allied docs and thats nothing new and everybody nows and accept it. It depends on what kind of armor you are facing. But a general statment that inf is worst against armor is not true. If we count the TD´s from axis as armor than inf doc does better against it than armor doc does.


So if you are going to argue that inf doc is nowdays the weakest US doc then you are simply wrong.

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Tiger1996
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Re: Blitzkrieg Mod 4.9.3 Patch

Postby Tiger1996 » 07 Nov 2015, 17:57

We just cant make them cheaper than howitzers while filling also roles of AA/AT/AI weapons. What could justify an 88 to be cheaper than a 25 pdr which has even less powerfull calibre as arty unit?

I only wonder.. who said that 88s have to cost cheaper than or even somehow as much as howitzers?? The slight price reductions of which I have been demanding for certainly won't go that far anyhow... As they are just 'slight' anyways!!

Making luft pios cheaper as Luftwaffes core construction and repair unit would make a lot more sense, even at cost from beint not deployed by air but instead cheap off map call in unit.

We could make them cheaper at the cost of their current weapons equipment perhaps, by removing both the STG44 as well as the MP40s upgrade; BUT surely not at the cost of their 'Luft' concept.. they are mainly meant to be air dropped after all...

Armor struggles badly against defenses

Not really.. 88s don't scare me as Armor doc anymore... Not to mention how great the Churchills are now capable of standing 1 to 1 against those flaks, specifically the Croc!


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